Virgil Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 I see all of this excitement and optimism but I just can't join in. And for the most part, I agree with most of the ESPN commentators when they talk about this change. I think we made a poor decision based upon our situation and are essentially throwing away any progress we made last year. When I think about how the season ended and where we were at in terms of progression: Best record in over a decade Best defense in over a decade Year two of consistency Declining Offense with no answer at QB Based off of that, what did we improve? We brought in a defensive minded coach who runs a completely different scheme. A coach that ran a defense that made Kyle Orton look like Aaron Rodgers. I mean, we shredded them TWICE. A defense that was terrible against the run. Also, in making this change, we are going back to playing people out of position and reducing players like Hughes to situational pass rushersThis is speculation, but I'm also afraid that we are going to have to waste FA money and draft picks to bring in people to fit this scheme. Offensively, we brought in an offensive coordinator who had Kaep regress under his watch. And sorry, but Kaep is better than EJ. They were terrible in the passing game with legit receivers and a Pro-Bowl TE. I get that they played elite defenses, but this is the NFL and no one is a cake walk. He produces a running game, but is based upon an offensive line that probably won't be able to be reproduced here with our talent for a little while. End of the day, while personnel is a big factor, scheme and coaching is too. When the season ended, would you have wanted the San Fran offense and the Jets defense to replace our team? I would say no 10 times out of 10. I get it. Fresh start, new players to them. But these are big leaps of faith that we can have the running game being promised and that the final 3 years of Rex's coaching career were the anomaly compared to his first 3 years as a head coach. Again, I want to be optimistic but we basically gutted our strength and reinforced our weakness.
BackInDaDay Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 look at it this way ... if you think the D will be as good, and the STs will be as good, and the O will improve ... wehave a good chance for 11 wins
Jobu Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 Personally I think Ryan is a huge improvement, but even a pessimist should see it as a wash. But on offense, how do you not see Roman as an improvement? A huge improvement at that?
Bangarang Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) We already ran the Rex Ryan scheme 2 years ago with Pettine and didn't seem to have a problem with fitting our players to it. Also, how can the Jets defense be terrible against the run but finish 5th best in the league at stopping it? #thingsthatmakeyougohmmm Edited January 13, 2015 by Bangarang
Kelly the Dog Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 If you're going to blame the OC for Kaep's regression, how can you also not credit him for two years of meteoric ascension, as well as three years in total? It would be a lot different if he was supposed to be a star, and was great under a different coach, and then Roman got ahold of him. But that's not what happened at all. Roman was partly responsible for Alex Smith going from awful to good, then a raw 2nd rounder from nobody to good to great in two seasons before crashing. Either he's responsible, partly responsible or not responsible... but it's for both the huge success and the big fall, not just the big fall. If Kaep's as bad a passer and QB as people are making him out to be, Roman should start calling himself Saint Roman.
BuffaloBill Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 I see all of this excitement and optimism but I just can't join in. And for the most part, I agree with most of the ESPN commentators when they talk about this change. I think we made a poor decision based upon our situation and are essentially throwing away any progress we made last year. When I think about how the season ended and where we were at in terms of progression: Best record in over a decade Best defense in over a decade Year two of consistency Declining Offense with no answer at QB Based off of that, what did we improve? We brought in a defensive minded coach who runs a completely different scheme. A coach that ran a defense that made Kyle Orton look like Aaron Rodgers. I mean, we shredded them TWICE. A defense that was terrible against the run. Also, in making this change, we are going back to playing people out of position and reducing players like Hughes to situational pass rushers This is speculation, but I'm also afraid that we are going to have to waste FA money and draft picks to bring in people to fit this scheme. Offensively, we brought in an offensive coordinator who had Kaep regress under his watch. And sorry, but Kaep is better than EJ. They were terrible in the passing game with legit receivers and a Pro-Bowl TE. I get that they played elite defenses, but this is the NFL and no one is a cake walk. He produces a running game, but is based upon an offensive line that probably won't be able to be reproduced here with our talent for a little while. End of the day, while personnel is a big factor, scheme and coaching is too. When the season ended, would you have wanted the San Fran offense and the Jets defense to replace our team? I would say no 10 times out of 10. I get it. Fresh start, new players to them. But these are big leaps of faith that we can have the running game being promised and that the final 3 years of Rex's coaching career were the anomaly compared to his first 3 years as a head coach. Again, I want to be optimistic but we basically gutted our strength and reinforced our weakness. Rain on the parade.... Rex also took the Jets to the championship game twice. He also had a GM that ran the talent into the ground. Not making excuses for him as the situation Buffalo is a challenge.
KOKBILLS Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 I'm still unsure about the move... But a step back from Marrone? No way...Impossible...
HurlyBurly51 Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 Agreed, this required its own thread. Yes, I'm super happy to get the OPs thoughts on the matter. It would've got lost in the larger thread.
Beef Jerky Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) Espn and company that you agree with also said Marrone would be a great hire... Then he runs away with a sack of money. So which ESPN do you feel like listening to. Look for yourself, Rex took a team with less talent then the Bills to the AFC championship game twice... He already has a top 5 defense to start with, he will probably have them #1 next year. He finally got to pick his OC Greg Roman who both love to run the ball. He will get the best out of the players he has, Whaley will keep pumping in talent and hopefully sign those that need to be kept. I see nothing but good things when you look at this HC's entire past. Edited January 13, 2015 by Beef Jerky
K-9 Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 Just to clarify, the Jest run defense was actually better than ours this year. GO BILLS!!!
Virgil Posted January 13, 2015 Author Posted January 13, 2015 I have no problems admitting to being wrong about the Jets run D. I kind of assumed based off of previous years and thought I remembered them not being good as mentioned during commentators in our games with them. And I'm agreeing with ESPN about what they said about this specifically, not everything they say. As for everything else, I feel like we are picking a choosing what to like and ignoring the big picture from all these guys. I don't want to feel this way. I don't want the team to be worse. I just can't help it when I look at what we accomplished this year and what these coaches have done the past 3 years
hondo in seattle Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 Derek, I really disagree with you. Here's why... We didn't just hire Rex. We hired the Rex/Roman combo and - although it took me a while to warm up to this - I think it will be a great coaching duo for the Bills. In San Francisco, Alex Smith was 1st round bust and perpetually mediocre QB until he blossomed under Roman's tutelage. Then Harbaugh decided to start Kaep over Smith and, as we've seen this year, Kaep sucks. Kaep isn't a good QB and his inaccuracy held Roman's offense back. When you say Kaep is better than EJ, did you actually watch Kaep play this year? According to the Sacramento Bee*, the 49ers left 100 points on the table this season either because receivers dropped passes or Kaep threw inaccurate balls. That's not the Roman's fault. That's lack of player talent. Roman is clearly better than Hackett - at least Roman had his rushing offense in the top ten every year. As far as Rex is concerned, over the past 6 years, the Jets were the best D in the NFL in passing yards, completion percentage, first downs and yards per play. Rex accomplished those stellar defensive statistics despite the crap talent Idzik acquired for him. Rex just might make our good Bills D into a great D. Let's imagine this: Ryan has our D in the top five (again) and Roman gets our running attack in the top 10. That's what these gentlemen tend to accomplish and it may be enough to get us into the playoffs. We almost made the playoffs this year despite an offense that was putrid at everything. Whaley is a smart man. He knows he doesn't have an immediate solution at QB. So he brings in Rex to make the D even better and because he knows Rex prefers to run the ball - something we can realistically hope to do well next year. And with Rex's assistance, Whaley brings in Roman whose expertise is building running attacks. Sure, they'd love to find a franchise QB. In the meantime, they're building a team that will get into the playoffs in 2015 without a marquis QB. At this point, all we truly need are two OGs. I'm guessing Whaley has a plan for the OL too. It's going to be a fun offseason and next January we're going to be watching the Bills on TV. * http://www.sacbee.com/sports/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/article5877429.html
Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 I see all of this excitement and optimism but I just can't join in. And for the most part, I agree with most of the ESPN commentators when they talk about this change. I think we made a poor decision based upon our situation and are essentially throwing away any progress we made last year. When I think about how the season ended and where we were at in terms of progression: Best record in over a decade Best defense in over a decade Year two of consistency Declining Offense with no answer at QB Based off of that, what did we improve? We brought in a defensive minded coach who runs a completely different scheme. A coach that ran a defense that made Kyle Orton look like Aaron Rodgers. I mean, we shredded them TWICE. A defense that was terrible against the run. Also, in making this change, we are going back to playing people out of position and reducing players like Hughes to situational pass rushersThis is speculation, but I'm also afraid that we are going to have to waste FA money and draft picks to bring in people to fit this scheme. Offensively, we brought in an offensive coordinator who had Kaep regress under his watch. And sorry, but Kaep is better than EJ. They were terrible in the passing game with legit receivers and a Pro-Bowl TE. I get that they played elite defenses, but this is the NFL and no one is a cake walk. He produces a running game, but is based upon an offensive line that probably won't be able to be reproduced here with our talent for a little while. End of the day, while personnel is a big factor, scheme and coaching is too. When the season ended, would you have wanted the San Fran offense and the Jets defense to replace our team? I would say no 10 times out of 10. I get it. Fresh start, new players to them. But these are big leaps of faith that we can have the running game being promised and that the final 3 years of Rex's coaching career were the anomaly compared to his first 3 years as a head coach. Again, I want to be optimistic but we basically gutted our strength and reinforced our weakness. Gutted our strength? more like enhanced. Also a coach that the players like is better than one they don't.
Nitro Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 Roman is a proponent of physical and punishing running game. That will cover EJs shortcomings. His passing game will be simple just like Smith had when they resurrected his career.
clearwater cadet Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 Happy with the hire. More happy if jim s was staying.
NewEra Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) I have no problems admitting to being wrong about the Jets run D. I kind of assumed based off of previous years and thought I remembered them not being good as mentioned during commentators in our games with them. And I'm agreeing with ESPN about what they said about this specifically, not everything they say. As for everything else, I feel like we are picking a choosing what to like and ignoring the big picture from all these guys. I don't want to feel this way. I don't want the team to be worse. I just can't help it when I look at what we accomplished this year and what these coaches have done the past 3 years I feel like we are picking and choosing the best head coach for the job. While he might not be the "perfect fit" for our current defensive alignment and defensive coaching staff, I believe he's the best head coach available. I love jim Schwartz as our DC, but Great DCs usually end up hired away as was coaches. With the defense we have in place, Schwartz would be one of them. In a year or 2 when him Schwartz is a HC because of our talent on D, we'll be fine on D, because Rex will make sure of it. Looks like that's in the past, as it looks like Schwartz is out. And we still have a head coach that knows how to make a dominant defensive unit. Edited January 13, 2015 by NewEra
TPS Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 While I like the Ryan hire, I think you raise valid concerns. I think the personnel on D is more suited to Schwartz's scheme than the Ryan/Pettine scheme. I was really looking forward to what Schwartz could do in his second season with Kiko back. The Bills don't have a true nose tackle, and that's why they were so poor against the run under Pettine. It'll be interesting to see what they try to do. The one thing I'm excited about is they have to have a better O line coach...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 Now that it's (seemingly) official that Schwartz is out, I look at the hire this way: We have the same strengths and weaknesses on the roster we had when Marrone and Schwartz were in charge of the O and D respectively, only now we have a better defensive mind running the show which is the strength of the team. Any new offensive scheme is going to be an upgrade over what Marrone was running, so even though we're still left with the same questions we had with Marrone (QB, OL, offensive identity) Rex >>> Marrone/Schwartz. Time will tell, but I think the hire was the safest way to go, and could end up being a hit. Let's see what Whaley does in the off season to address the holes, I have a feeling they're going to make some big moves.
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