Pneumonic Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 NFL says substitutions were legal. http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2014/story/_/id/12150444/2014-15-nfl-playoffs-league-says-new-england-patriots-substitutions-vs-baltimore-ravens-legal I wonder if Fox or Pagano will read the rulebook prior to next week's game?
NoSaint Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) Is harbaughs argument simply that the pats weren't giving them enough time to figure out the plays pre-snap, not that they were truly illegal? If so, it seems that he's the one being silly, not the pats Edited January 11, 2015 by NoSaint
Wayne Cubed Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 So they were creative and it was hard to react to on the fly because the defense wasn't prepared? Sounds like when the Dolphins beat them with the wildcat. The only problem I have with it is did they have time to notify the defense. Usually they announce it when a tackle reports eligible, surely they should notify the defense when a receiver reports ineligible. Flaw in the system and they found it. Kudos to them.
G-Daddy Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 Likely the competition committee will do something about this in the off season.
truth on hold Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) Every time I want to respect this team they remind me not to. Complete abuse of the rules and just shows what theyre all about. Another tarnished season that ends with an "*" Edited January 11, 2015 by JTSP
NoSaint Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) The only problem I have with it is did they have time to notify the defense. Usually they announce it when a tackle reports eligible, surely they should notify the defense when a receiver reports ineligible. Flaw in the system and they found it. Kudos to them. But the ref was handling it the same as a tackle eligible, no? Just the pats were hurrying up and the ineligible guy wasn't always in the same spot so it was hard for the safeties/linebackers to sort out responsibility in a hurry up Essentially they risked 4 blockers in exchange for confusion and the Ravens simply never were coached how to handle it Edited January 11, 2015 by NoSaint
mannc Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 So they were creative and it was hard to react to on the fly because the defense wasn't prepared? Sounds like when the Dolphins beat them with the wildcat.Except that the wildcat was indisputably legal. Despite the NFL's pronouncement, I think the jury is still out in this. I think it will boil down to whether you consider exploiting a gray area to be "cheating". Many people do.
NoSaint Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 Except that the wildcat was indisputably legal. Despite the NFL's pronouncement, I think the jury is still out in this. I think it will boil down to whether you consider exploiting a gray area to be "cheating". Many people do. What is illegal about it, besides no one having done it yet? The article left out the rule but it seems the pats looked at it, the refs agreed (I'm sure they told the refs pre-game too) and even harbaugh seems to be arguing that it wasn't very nice, not that the formation was illegal. If the roles were swapped and the Ravens pulled it I suspect the board would be celebrating and calling the pats whinersx
Wayne Cubed Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 But the ref was handling it the same as a tackle eligible, no? Just the pats were hurrying up and the ineligible guy wasn't always in the same spot so it was hard for the safeties/linebackers to sort out responsibility in a hurry up Essentially they risked 4 blockers in exchange for confusion and the Ravens simply never were coached how to handle it The hurry up helped with the confusion, if you watch the head Referee he is talking with Pats* RB and I don't think he notifies the defense. I don't know if they have to the only reason I say they would have to is because they notify the defense when a tackled is eligible. You can hear it over the PA. Like I said, kudos to them.
TheFunPolice Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) Well they saved it until they had to use it.. I would bet they wanted to save it for Denver or even the SB Cat is out of the bag now Edited January 11, 2015 by TheFunPolice
DC Tom Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 NFL says substitutions were legal. http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2014/story/_/id/12150444/2014-15-nfl-playoffs-league-says-new-england-patriots-substitutions-vs-baltimore-ravens-legal I wonder if Fox or Pagano will read the rulebook prior to next week's game? "Legal," yes. In that it was within the rules. But it was also a use of the rules in a manner in which they weren't intended to be used. It wasn't "playing the game" as much as it was "gaming the system." And that's cheating.
TheFunPolice Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 "Legal," yes. In that it was within the rules. But it was also a use of the rules in a manner in which they weren't intended to be used. It wasn't "playing the game" as much as it was "gaming the system." And that's cheating. I think that's why I hate that team. It's always some technicality that they benefit from. Guaranteed that was meant for Denver in case Manning mans up in Foxborough
G-Daddy Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 "Legal," yes. In that it was within the rules. But it was also a use of the rules in a manner in which they weren't intended to be used. It wasn't "playing the game" as much as it was "gaming the system." And that's cheating. Everybody games the system as often as they can......businessmen, politicians and sports teams. Law of unintended consequences when implementing a rule/law.
mannc Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 What is illegal about it, besides no one having done it yet? The article left out the rule but it seems the pats looked at it, the refs agreed (I'm sure they told the refs pre-game too) and even harbaugh seems to be arguing that it wasn't very nice, not that the formation was illegal. If the roles were swapped and the Ravens pulled it I suspect the board would be celebrating and calling the pats whinersx i will be honest: I have not carefully studied the rule and analyzed whether what they did violated it or was merely contrary to its spirit. I think the rule is confusing to begin with. It seems to me that the Pats were operating in a gray area and that the refs themselves were confused and let them get away with it.
TheFunPolice Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 That was their ace in the hole and they had to play it a lot earlier than they wanted to
Numark3 Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 Oh please, if the bills did this you all would be talking about how smart it was. It wasn't cheating in any sense of the word
NoSaint Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) i will be honest: I have not carefully studied the rule and analyzed whether what they did violated it or was merely contrary to its spirit. I think the rule is confusing to begin with. It seems to me that the Pats were operating in a gray area and that the refs themselves were confused and let them get away with it.I just read through them and it seems pretty basic that its legal but coaches didn't want to risk a 4 man line. The ineligible player checks in, the ref notifies a defensive captain and you play ball. That the Ravens werent prepped for it seems to be the only issue. The first fake fg, first flea flicker, first wildcat were all the same thing, it seems like Edited January 11, 2015 by NoSaint
DC Tom Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 Oh please, if the bills did this you all would be talking about how smart it was. Oh, of course. But it was still cheating. I just read through them and it seems pretty basic that its legal but coaches didn't want to risk a 4 man line. The ineligible player checks in, the ref notifies a defensive captain and you play ball. That the Ravens werent prepped for it seems to be the only issue. Not only that, but you'd think any team posed with a bizarre formation that !@#$s up their coverage like that would call a time out.
Numark3 Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 Oh, of course. But it was still cheating. if you think following the rules to deceive an opponent is cheating, then yes. So was that Amendola pass though. A WR throwing a ball? Cheating. Rules were not intended to have WRs throw the ball.
TheFunPolice Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 Von Miller will make them pay if they try it again
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