JohnC Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) So what about Bortles performance in 2014 did you like better than Orton? What made him have the better season? If it was mobility he was sacked 22 more times than Orton in 1 more start!! It can't be Bortles inferior OL either b/c you are already on record in the thread that the Bills OL is "the worst in the NFL." I will take under any circumstance a struggling rookie qb with talent over a mediocre veteran qb who has faded to the end of the career line. At least with the struggling rookie qb with tools he is at least gaining valuable experience that will serve him well in the future. There is not one GM in the game who would prefer having Orton over Bortles. With Bortles you have future hope. With Orton you got little from him at the end of his career and you get nothing from him in the future. Whether you rank Orton at the bottom or near the bottom of qb rankings what is the difference? An ineffectual veteran qb gets you no where. Having an older qb who is ineffectual is demonstratably a less favorable situation to be in than having a rookie qb with tools who struggles. In the current discussion a reliance of stats doesn't reflect the totality of the situation. Edited January 11, 2015 by JohnC
Kirby Jackson Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) I will take under any circumstance a struggling rookie qb with talent over a mediocre veteran qb who has faded to the end of the career line. At least with the struggling rookie qb with tools he is at least gaining valuable experience that will serve him well in the future. There is not one GM in the game who would prefer having Orton over Bortles. With Bortles you have future hope. With Orton you got little from him at the end of his career and you get nothing from him in the future. Whether you rank Orton at the bottom or near the bottom of qb rankings what is the difference? An ineffectual veteran qb gets you no where. Having an older qb who is ineffectual is demonstratably a less favorable situation to be in than having a rookie qb with tools who struggles. In the current discussion a reliance of stats doesn't reflect the totality of the situation. I thought that he was near the bottom (somewhere between 19-25). I thought that the Bills got as good or better QB play than: Jets, Jags, Browns, Texans, Titans, Eagles, Redskins, Raiders (Carr is promising though), 49ers, Bears, Bengals, Rams and Cards once Palmer went down. Obviously some of those can be debated but others (like Jax) can't. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't trade the Bills QB situation for that of some of those teams (namely SF, Oakland and Arizona). I'm not talking about stats, but eye test as well. You said that he was the worst and you would take anyone over him. I'm just pointing out that Bortles was far worse and a case can't be made otherwise. We were not talking about QB situations but rather the play of the QB position in 2014. Edited January 11, 2015 by Kirby Jackson
TheFunPolice Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 So is he actually a candidate for the Bears?
JohnC Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 I thought that he was near the bottom (somewhere between 19-25). I thought that the Bills got as good or better QB play than: Jets, Jags, Browns, Texans, Titans, Eagles, Redskins, Raiders (Carr is promising though), 49ers, Bears, Bengals, Rams and Cards once Palmer went down. Obviously some of those can be debated but others (like Jax) can't. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't trade the Bills QB situation for that of some of those teams (namely SF, Oakland and Arizona). I'm not talking about stats, but eye test as well. You said that he was the worst and you would take anyone over him. I'm just pointing out that Bortles was far worse and a case can't be made otherwise. We were not talking about QB situations but rather the play of the QB position in 2014. Entering the season with the knowledge of how the two players will play I would without hesitation take the younger qb over the veteran qb. With respect to Orton I don't give a dam about his stats. Watching him play was more informative (for me) than analyzing his stats. His lack of mobility and athleticism was stunningly bad. Even if Bortles played poorly there was a purpose for continuing to play him, namely gaining experience. With Orton there was nothing redeeming about his play. Watching such a limited qb play was a dispiriting experience. As I have repeatedly stated his stats were very much inflated by the end of the game prevent defenses. Those padded stats don't reflect how atrociously bad he was. It was excruciatingly painful to watch such ineptitude on a weekly basis.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 If Marrone doesn't get the Falcons job, which they would be incredibly stupid to do, he could always play Two-Face in the next Batman movie.
Kirby Jackson Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) Entering the season with the knowledge of how the two players will play I would without hesitation take the younger qb over the veteran qb. With respect to Orton I don't give a dam about his stats. Watching him play was more informative (for me) than analyzing his stats. His lack of mobility and athleticism was stunningly bad. Even if Bortles played poorly there was a purpose for continuing to play him, namely gaining experience. With Orton there was nothing redeeming about his play. Watching such a limited qb play was a dispiriting experience. As I have repeatedly stated his stats were very much inflated by the end of the game prevent defenses. Those padded stats don't reflect how atrociously bad he was. It was excruciatingly painful to watch such ineptitude on a weekly basis. Again, the Bills got superior QB play to some teams. It was not THE worst as you indicated. It had nothing to do with stats. You tried to use mobility as the reason but Bortles was sacked 22 more times in 1 more start with a better OL (again your words) in front of him. What specifically did Bortles do better in 2014 before being drafted early? Ponder, Gabbert and EJ were also draftedearly. Bortles may end up being serviceable (I'd be surprised but he may) but he was LIGHT YEARS behind Orton in 2014. Again, if you would have said that the Bills QV situation was bad I would have probably cut you some slack. If you are saying "the worst" you are going to have to support it with more than he was immobile. Bortles is mobile and was sacked 55 times behind a better OL. The hyperbole on this board is out of control. Edited January 11, 2015 by Kirby Jackson
JohnC Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 Again, the Bills got superior QB play to some teams. It was not THE worst as you indicated. It had nothing to do with stats. You tried to use mobility as the reason but Bortles was sacked 22 more times in 1 more start with a better OL (again your words) in front of him. What specifically did Bortles do better in 2014 before being drafted early? Ponder, Gabbert and EJ were also drafted early. Bortles may end up being serviceable (I'd be surprised but he may) but he was LIGHT YEARS behind Orton in 2014. Again, if you would have said that the Bills QV situation was bad I would have probably cut you some slack. If you are saying "the worst" you are going to have to support it with more than he was immobile. Bortles is mobile and was sacked 55 times behind a better OL. The hyperbole on this board is out of control. I will conclude this back and forth discussion. For me I would take Bortles over Orton this year regardless what the statistics indicate. You would not. That is fine. If Bortles turns out to be a serviceable qb (I believe that he is going to be better than EJ) then in my view he is an immensely better qb than Orton. On the Orton issue I am going to respectfully disagree with you. The mere fact that this caliber of qb was our starting qb for most of the season is a testament to the ineptitude of our organization.
Best Player Available Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 Bears like Kubiak...LOL keep up the fight dude! what does Kubiak bring to the table? other than losing a team who quit on him?
YoloinOhio Posted January 14, 2015 Author Posted January 14, 2015 @AroundTheNFL: Bears interviewed Doug Marrone and Teryl Austin on Tuesday http://t.co/VC0v1snPrs
dave mcbride Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 I won't be surprised if Marrone gets the Bears job. I'm not saying I think he will, but if he can bring Schwartz, that might be seen as a plus.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 I won't be surprised if Marrone gets the Bears job. I'm not saying I think he will, but if he can bring Schwartz, that might be seen as a plus. I would like to know what Schwartz thinks of Marrone, as both a coach and a man.
dave mcbride Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 I would like to know what Schwartz thinks of Marrone, as both a coach and a man. Fair point. Marrone actually really screwed schwartz over if you thinnk about it. Tat said, he seemed eager to work with marrone this season.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 Fair point. Marrone actually really screwed schwartz over if you thinnk about it. Tat said, he seemed eager to work with marrone this season. Yeah, i wasn't trying to make any judgment. Schwartz may like Marrone a lot for all we know.
Niagara Dude Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 Fox is going hard after this job and will get it, Mark it down.Marrone will have to prove himself again.Should have kept his mouth shut after he left the Bills (That is not how you repay a team that gave you your first NFL HC job).
HurlyBurly51 Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 @AroundTheNFL: Bears interviewed Doug Marrone and Teryl Austin on Tuesday http://t.co/VC0v1snPrs And they have an interview set up with Fox tomorrow.
cale Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 (edited) Bears should hire Fox. But what does the Fox say? If they hire Marrone over Fox, the Bears deserve to suffer...It's a no brainer. If Fox was available when we were searching, he would have gone to the top of my list. My only concern would have been is health. Edited January 14, 2015 by cale
QCity Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 (edited) I heard the Jets and Falcons were fighting over Quinn. With the Jets having hired Bowles, it seems like a done deal with Quinn in Atlanta. If the buzz about Fox being the frontrunner in Chicago is true, it's possible Marrone is left standing out in the cold. I don't think San Fran or Oakland even showed any interest. Edited January 14, 2015 by QCity
The Frankish Reich Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 Fox is going hard after this job and will get it, Mark it down.Marrone will have to prove himself again.Should have kept his mouth shut after he left the Bills (That is not how you repay a team that gave you your first NFL HC job). Agreed. Word in Broncosland is that Fox was already making overtures to the Bears during the Broncos bye week.
JeebusCrust Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 Can you blame them? After the way he left here and what has come out since? I wouldn't want someone who skips out on their team and tattles on the FO to prospective candidates. Not to mention all the stories that have come out regarding his character. I know it's journalists writing them but there is usually some basis of truth behind them no matter how exaggerated and it's been enough to make anyone weary. Let the bastard rot, hope he enjoys the free $4mil and doesn't get to work in the NFL again
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