JohnC Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 Wrong. It a matter like this, style counts. Mass texting, trash talking,clandestine PR wars and slinking out of town with $4 mil in unearned dollers is not how a leader acts. It's how a selfish, untrustworthy egotist acts. In the end, he didn't do what's best for himself because he is exposed as a man with severe character issues and as someone you don't trust with coaching an NFL franchise. He pocketed $4 mil at the expense of his reputation. Like Mastershake, I'm done with trashing DM, but please no revisionist views of a good gy just doing what's best for himself. I didn't say he was a good or bad guy. He acted in his interest within the terms of his contract. What is wrong with that? The so called furor over the issue of the texting associated with his departure means little. Who cares? Whether he held a press conference or not who cares? What is the point?
Kelly the Dog Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) You seem to think that players don't decline physically. They do. Pears, regardless of the position he played, got worse physically. So did Wood (and Freddie, for that matter - he wasn't nearly as explosive this season). And I don't think it was coaching with Wood - he was getting ragdolled regularly. I'm not defending the offensive scheme, btw - it was bad. I'm just saying that these claims about players regressing doesn't factor in physical decline. It was real, at least in my opinion. If Pears declined physically it's even more stupid to play him at guard. To me, pears was the same guy for three straight years at rt. Extremely average but serviceable. He was the worst rated guard in the league. A 6'8" no agility tackle playing OG? Are you kidding me? Wood, who is one of the nicest guys around and rarely if ever criticizes people, except himself, was all but blaming Marrone for all his moves two or so days ago. Edited January 10, 2015 by Kelly the Dog
dave mcbride Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 If Pears declined physically it's even more stupid to play him. Wood, who is one of the nicest guys around and rarely if ever criticizes people, except himself, was all but blaming Marrone for all his moves two or so days ago. I don't care what Wood says. He played badly this year, and he admitted this himself.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) I don't care what Wood says. He played badly this year, and he admitted this himself.He did. And he played worse because of Marrone's choices. You should care when a guy rarely criticizes but then once he criticizes. Usually there is some merit. Edited January 10, 2015 by Kelly the Dog
Wayne Cubed Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 I'll glady take every qb on that list over Orton. Seriously? Did you watch any of them play? Geno Smith? Brian Hoyer?
dave mcbride Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 He did. And he played worse because of Marrone's choices. You should care when a guy rarely criticizes but then once he criticizes. Usually there is some merit. I think he played worse because he's declining. Badol broke down his game a few weeks ago and spelled out he's declining. He can't hold the point anymore. As Badol put it, he often looked like he was playing on roller skates. Seriously? Did you watch any of them play? Geno Smith? Brian Hoyer? Agreed. Orton was better than that sorry lot.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 I think he played worse because he's declining. Badol broke down his game a few weeks ago and spelled out he's declining. He can't hold the point anymore. As Badol put it, he often looked like he was playing on roller skates I meant he declined and played poorly, but then was additionally bad and additionally poor because he had Pears and Richardson beside him and wasn't completely focusing on his own duties, and teams were often confusing the line as a whole.
Saint Doug Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 The so called furor over the issue of the texting associated with his departure means little. Who cares? Whether he held a press conference or not who cares? What is the point? Umm, multiple players cared and they publicly said so. Are you living under a rock? Their private thoughts are probably much worse too. If my boss did that, a person I depend on to advance my career, I'd also be furious.
JohnC Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 It's a message board. There is not proof. I haven't bashed Marrone for leaving. I think it was smart by him. Not the same reasons you do but I think it was smart by him. For him. I just think he is an average coach all around, who did a few good things, as well as a lousy offensive coach and a vindictive SOB. There is no glorification of Chan. There is only serious thought of what he did making chicken salad out of chickenschitt on offense. Period. He produced an average offense with incredibly crappy players. Marrone produced an incredibly crappy offense with better players. If a new HC has to work with the same limited players on the OL he had and has to start a qb as limited as Orton he will fare no better than Marrone. Doug Marrone was never an innovative and creative coach, before he was hired or after. The organization got what exactly what they hired. He is who he is and what he was before he was selected as a HC. He wasn't hired because he was an empathetic person; he was hired because he was a hardhass. The organization did its due diligence when they hired him. So why is everyone so surprised when he doesn't act out of character? Doug Marrone didn't betray anyone. He acted in his interest and he did so within the terms of his contract. He didn't want to remain in the current situation so he opted out. Again, what is wrong with that? The bottom line is he got a team to play to its deficient talent level. If that is average then so be it. Seriously? Did you watch any of them play? Geno Smith? Brian Hoyer? I would absolutely take Hoyer or Geno over Orton any day of the week. They may be mediocre qbs but at least they can move better than a three legged giraffe.
Kirby Jackson Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 There isn't a team in the NFL who wouldn't take the rookie Bortles over Orton as their starter. Orton was finished as a player before he even played for us. Bortles has potential to be a franchise qb. Preferring Orton over Bortles, regardless of the stats, is a position I find difficult to understand. But you are entitled to your opinion as am I.So, to your original point you think that Bortles was the superior QB in 2014? You said that Orton was the worst QB in the NFL. I am just asking what about Bortles play in 2014 made him the superior player?
Kelly the Dog Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 If a new HC has to work with the same limited players on the OL he had and has to start a qb as limited as Orton he will fare no better than Marrone. Doug Marrone was never an innovative and creative coach, before he was hired or after. The organization got what exactly what they hired. He is who he is and what he was before he was selected as a HC. He wasn't hired because he was an empathetic person; he was hired because he was a hardhass. The organization did its due diligence when they hired him. So why is everyone so surprised when he doesn't act out of character?Doug Marrone didn't betray anyone. He acted in his interest and he did so within the terms of his contract. He didn't want to remain in the current situation so he opted out. Again, what is wrong with that? Chan was an innovative coach. He would have got more out of these same players. Marrone and the Bills said Marrone was an innovative coach and he wasn't at all. They didn't get what they hired. They thought they were getting an innovative coach. And I don't know why you keep responding to me about Marrone leaving with stuff I didn't say and when I agree with you. He did the smart thing. I never said he betrayed anyone (concerning him leaving).
GG Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) If memory serves me straight, the only guys who saw extensive action at RT in preseason were Kujo and then Henderson. Saying that Marrone's line was devoid of talent misses the mark, because I'm not convinced he had the best unit on the field. He's also the only coach I've heard knocking continuity and familiarity of the OL to get best play out of them. Perhaps the guys who were at camp can update me on the rotation of the other guys. Because to me that was always the big question. Did Hairston really regress that badly that he wasn't the better option at RT? What about moving Pears back to RT? How about sliding Glenn to G and slotting Hairston at Lt where he was serviceable? It's easy to give Marrone a pass for inferior talent. I have a hunch though is that the talent deficiency was largely self imposed. PS, in the entire history of the league you can count the guys who voluntarily left in the middle of a contract on one hand. So while his reasons may have been valid to him, in the parlance of the league, he's a class 1 quitter. Edited January 10, 2015 by GG
Bronc24 Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 You can't enact an innovative offense when your qb is the worst starting qb in the league and when your OL consistently gets overwhelmed blocking for run and pass plays. How do you call creative plays for an offense that can't execute basic plays? Doug Marrone took a very conservative approach to the offense because collectivelyhis players on that unit (qb and OL) were incapable. Relying on the defense and STs and minimizing the offense was the right approach to take for the simple reason that there were no other alternaitves. How many bubble screens did we throw to Sammy? Honest question.
mannc Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 Doug Marrone did the right thing for him and the organization by leaving the franchise. He and Whaley had unbridgeable differences on buidling a team. While it seems that Whaley is committed to EJ it is apparent that Marrone had made a determination that EJ will never be a franchise qb, at least for him, who would give him a chance to succeed. Marrone has strong views on players that contradict the moves that Whaley made. He disagreed with the Watkins deal, made little use of the Mike Williams acquisition and little use of Brown after the fourth round expenditure. Putting aside the stubborn and prickly personality traits of the HC Marrone made the calculation that he had a better chance to succeed elsewhere than he did with the Bills, especially with their dire qb situation. It seems to me that Whaley is very much invested in EJ. So much so that he is betting on a qb that many (if not most) people are understandably very skeptical of. Many people like to bash the departed HC who exercised an option that was stipulated in his contract. I have no problem with his leaving a job in which it appears that he felt that it wasn't going to work out for him. Contrary to most others' views leaving a job for philosophical reasons, espeically when the contractual agreement allows it, it should be more graciously accepted instead of vilified. The bottom line is that his departure benefited him and the organization. Most often when the situation is unsustainable it is better to act sooner rather than later. That's exactly what he did. I don't have a problem with him opting out, either. I think he was a lousy HC and as you point out, he could not co-exist with Whaley. What irks me, and others, is that he took potshots at the organization on the way out the door. That and the St Doug act. I doubt he will get another head coaching gig in the NFL. I hope he has a good money manager.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) How many bubble screens did we throw to Sammy? Honest question. We threw four total passes to Sammy behind the line of scrimmage, including bubble screens. OBJ had 20. I do recall one really low pass immediately in the dirt that he didn't catch, so it may have been 5, Edited January 10, 2015 by Kelly the Dog
hondo in seattle Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 I don't understand the vilification of Doug Marrone. He had major philosophical differences with the GM and front office. You can disagree with his approach toward building a roster compared to the front oficce's approach. His differences with Whaley couldn't be reconciled. So instead of letting the situation fester and get worse he exercised the buy out option in his contract. What is wrong with that? Instead of characterizing him as a traitor he should be applauded for acting on his principles. There is nothing wrong with him opting out. As I stated before it was the right thing for him to do and it was in the best interest of the organization. The glorification of the Gailey era is a revisionist view of his failed tenure. Again, if he was such an innovative HC why was he let go? You can "what if" yourself about Chan Gailey being in Marrone's situation until you are exhausted. It means little. Based on the record Marrone outperformed Gailey. That's what it is about. You need not to forget it when you are resorting to your "what if" arguments that prove little. I'll glady take every qb on that list over Orton. There isn't a team in the NFL who wouldn't take the rookie Bortles over Orton as their starter. Orton was finished as a player before he even played for us. Bortles has potential to be a franchise qb. Preferring Orton over Bortles, regardless of the stats, is a position I find difficult to understand. But you are entitled to your opinion as am I. It's not revisionist. Lots of us felt at the time that Chan was doing an awesome job with the offense given the poor OL, QB, and WR talent he had on the roster. If (1) Chan had better players, and (2) found a good DC, he would still be the head coach. Of course, those are two huge ifs. Marrone outperformed Gailey because he had better talent and hired better DCs. The better talent is thanks to the FO. The better DCs may also be due to the FO. For example, when Schwartz was offered the job, I doubt he thought, "Great! I have a chance to work with the legendary Doug Marrone!" More likely, he looked at the loaded Bills defensive roster and couldn't resist the opportunity to coach those great players. Marrone didn't excel in his supposed area of expertise: offense. Both Marrone and Gailey had offenses bereft of OL and QB talent. But Gailey did a much better job with the cards he was dealt.
YoloinOhio Posted January 10, 2015 Author Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) We threw four total passes to Sammy behind the line of scrimmage, including bubble screens. OBJ had 20.but we did have Sammy blocking on bubble screens! Because hey - who would expect that?! #innovative Edited January 10, 2015 by YoloinOhio
BuffaninATL Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 update on Marrone per Mort - -- Chris Mortensen @mortreport If Doug Marrone does not land a head coach job, sources say he will have an offer to join close friend Bill O'Brien as a Texans consultant
Dragonborn10 Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 Chicago would be the perfect place for him. Strong D and weak O, just like they like. You didn't watch any of the Bears games. Their D is awful.
Bronc24 Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 We threw four total passes to Sammy behind the line of scrimmage, including bubble screens. OBJ had 20. I do recall one really low pass immediately in the dirt that he didn't catch, so it may have been 5, I could throw that pass with 5 of you as an OL. Nice design.
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