What a Tuel Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) What difference does it make what Cleveland did or does with the picks? Plus, it's not just about Beckham. The point is that there were so many good WR options available that it seems the cost to move up may have outweighed the upgrade in talent. Would you rather have: Beckham and no 2015 1st rounder, or Mike Evans, and a 2015 1st rounder? Edited January 10, 2015 by What a Tuel
Profitspro Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 Drafting a WR very high is always a risk unless the name to trad up is Jerry Rice. Watkins is a good player but trading up for him was always going to be a controversial matter, just ask Oakland under Al Davis when they tended to draft WR with the main prerequisite of speed or Detroit. I am worried that it is Doug Whaley may be the one to make the decision in the next draft, I fear he may not make the right decision in what we do regarding QB.
Buff the Cat Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 Entering into the 2014 draft, it appeared to me that the intention of the organization was that we had our QB (EJM - irregardless if it was a Nix/Brandon choice) of the future. From that viewpoint it seems to me that Whaley wanted to boost the weapons available to said QB to help increase the offensive production. In that effort, he did what he thought was best in acquiring (in what many experts regarded as the best WR out of many excellent WR's) Watkins in the draft. Stemming from that same viewpoint, we now have our QB of the future, 2 excellent WR's in Woods and Watkins, 2 great RB's plus Bryce Brown, and returning vets in the OL plus new OL draft picks with potential upside. On paper things seemed to be rather rosey. Obviously we know now how the season went, but it makes one wonder how much of this offensive potential may have been wasted due to either the HC and/or OC or QB or otherwise. Whaley has made some great FA acquisitions during the season and I wonder how much he believes in EJM and what precautions he may take to secure a potential replacement should he have fears that EJM failing come to fruition. At this point, for me, it is hard to determine how much EJM's performance is a result of coaching and how much of it is a result of talent or lack thereof. I have some hope for EJM, I want him to do well, but then again, what was and/or is the real issue... Buff the Cat
Martifal Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 Except that's not what the Bills were going to do. They were not going OL in round one and not picking Carr in Rd 2. It's really simple. Look at the post a few above yours for the three alternatives. 1 - Watkins or 2 - Ebron + mid 1st pick this year (Bills would have been at least two games worse this year w/o Watkins) In that scenario, I still take Watkins. I agree all we hear about is Becham the Bills didn't seem to have any interest in Becham going into the draft, probably would have taken Ebron. Looking back over the 2014 season you could make the case that St Doug made a point of not using players that Whaley provided him Bryce Brown, Mike Williams, both could have been used to improve this offense as bad as the Bills were in the red zone they couldn't even try getting the ball to Mike Williams in scoring position, he was a proven commodity in Tampa scored 20 plus TDs, when he did play Bryce Brown looked a lot better than CJ did. Sammy Watkins was supposed to be a playmaker this year, yet it never appeared the Bills were trying to design ways to get the Ball into his hands. After it came out that Marrone was against the trade and there was some animosity between him and Doug Whaley you could legitimately make the case that Doug Marrone purposely under utilized those players, if thats true then good riddance Marrone because that was a petty bush league move. Look at highlight film of Mike Williams and tell me we couldn't have used him in the red zone this year might have been the difference in making the playoffs. With all of the 1st round picks this team has whiffed on over the years I have no problem spending 2 1st rounders on Sammy were going to love having him here for a long time, could end up being the best reciever in club history by time he is done here.
Ozymandius Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 Depends on the QBs we ended up passing on. Does Manziel, Bridgewater, or Carr make us regret the trade? Also, factor in any 2015 QB we could've had with our first-rounder. We'll see in a couple years.
CardinalScotts Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 for me I wasn't making this trade for 1 year......next years selection on draft day for the Buffalo Bills will be a 21 year old wide out from Clemson named Sammy Watkins and he's coming with a years experience under his belt. He's a game changer who only going to get better and better
djp14150 Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 When news came from colleague Adam Schefter that former Buffalo Bills head coach Doug Marrone did not approve of the team's decision to trade up in the 2014 NFL draft to select Clemson wide receiver Sammy Watkins, giving away their 2015 first-round pick in the process, it provided a natural opportunity to assess the merits of the trade. In many cases -- regardless of whether the transaction is a trade, free-agent signing or draft selection -- there's a tendency to forge a knee-jerk reaction that can prove to be inaccurate in the long term. But while Watkins' career is far from over, based on a multitude of factors involved, it's hard to disagree with the sentiment suggested by Marrone: The decision to trade up for him was not the right move. http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=12127113&src=desktop Thus story is flaky at best.... Saying Becker would have been just as good on buffalo is questionable at best given the offense. Bechham benefited from the QB he had. Had Watkins had Eli he would have been velar cut top WR. In the pick chart...buffalo was going all in give Wilson's death a potential new owner. They wanted to keep draft picks in 2014, thus they had to give up more in 3015 given pick uncertainty. If you look at past trades to get to the top 5 you usually need to overpay. Than what the chart says.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 The true cost just went WAY, WAY down and far, far more solidly in the Bills favor. It got rid of Marrone and Hackett and got us Rex Roman the Conquerors.
Deranged Rhino Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 The true cost just went WAY, WAY down and far, far more solidly in the Bills favor. It got rid of Marrone and Hackett and got us Rex Roman the Conquerors. Good point. But... ODB....
Alphadawg7 Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 Good point. But... ODB.... ...wouldnt have done much more than Sammy in Buffalo in 2014, and probably less. There I finished your sentence for you.
Deranged Rhino Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 ...wouldnt have done much more than Sammy in Buffalo in 2014, and probably less. There I finished your sentence for you. :lol: But what if he were converted to a DB, like Sammy should be according to JTSP? Who would get the better end of the deal then?
Alphadawg7 Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 :lol: But what if he were converted to a DB, like Sammy should be according to JTSP? Who would get the better end of the deal then? Wow GreggyT, Someone actually said that? OMG, only TSW would that ever even be a thought. While we are at it, let the inmates run the asylum and we can switch Kiko to TE, Moorman can be brought back to be our QB, and we can trade Mario for Skelton. SB here we come
Deranged Rhino Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 Wow GreggyT, Someone actually said that? OMG, only TSW would that ever even be a thought. While we are at it, let the inmates run the asylum and we can switch Kiko to TE, Moorman can be brought back to be our QB, and we can trade Mario for Skelton. SB here we come It's a gem from JTSP where he said Sammy reminds him most of Troy brown and should convert to defensive back since he's not a good receiver.
John from Riverside Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 Jesus us is this thread still around? LOL
Chuck Wagon Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 Would people really rather have Ebron + 19th pick in the draft or Watkins To me the choice is pretty clear. ODB is revisionist history, no one knew he'd be that good otherwise he would have gone higher. Just a hunch, but I imagine the Lions (who also loved Sammy) would not think twice before trading Ebron and their pick (#23) for Sammy. That Gilbert looks like a potential whiff and that the Browns are making the pick at 19 just adds to the entertainment. The bottom line is the trade isn't going to cost us a franchise QB we would have taken (I'd be very surprised if Whaley would take another project QB at 19 and that's what would be there). Sammy looks legit and will grow as he's in the league more and we gave up a pick that's as likely to bust out of the league as it is to yield a 10 year starter.
Utah John Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 Kiko would probably make a great TE, now that you mention it. It worked for JJ Watt, and Alonso also has the height and agility to be effective. This of course is an additional duty for him, in addition to his LB job. I think Chuck Wagon's perspective is absolutely correct. The Bills were going to take Ebron with their original pick, after all the griping about Chandler. So would you trade Watkins for Ebron plus Detroit's #1 this year? I would NOT. The only real shame is that the 2013 Bills weren't just a little crappier, so they could have had the draft slot that Cleveland did, and we could have gotten Watkins with our own pick.
Koufax Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 Would people really rather have Ebron + 19th pick in the draft or Watkins To me the choice is pretty clear. ODB is revisionist history, no one knew he'd be that good otherwise he would have gone higher. Just a hunch, but I imagine the Lions (who also loved Sammy) would not think twice before trading Ebron and their pick (#23) for Sammy. That Gilbert looks like a potential whiff and that the Browns are making the pick at 19 just adds to the entertainment. The bottom line is the trade isn't going to cost us a franchise QB we would have taken (I'd be very surprised if Whaley would take another project QB at 19 and that's what would be there). Sammy looks legit and will grow as he's in the league more and we gave up a pick that's as likely to bust out of the league as it is to yield a 10 year starter. Good point, and something I have said a number of times this is the comparison on the table. The fact that the pick turns out to be #19 and not #7 or something definitely helps this trade. Pretending we would have picked OBD is revisionist history (but a good example about why taking the best player at your draft slot is usually the best value if you can scout well). Comparing Ebron + #19 is fair. A lot of other comparisons are as revisionist as saying we should have taken Tom Brady at #141 instead of Avion Black. Worth noting in our creative revisionist history, the last time we traded a future #1 pick it was to move up and grab Losman, and the pick we gave up at #20 could have been used on Aaron Rodgers who went four picks later.
DC Tom Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 It's a gem from JTSP where he said Sammy reminds him most of Troy brown and should convert to defensive back since he's not a good receiver. Now someone tell me again how pot is harmless...
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