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Posted

 

That describes most people anywhere.

 

decent people are trying to get away from the pigpen their country has become, North America is a decent place to head to if you can.

 

bringing the nonsense over here is tolerated until it takes lives

Posted

 

Why should it be?

 

Should be checked at the door. Don't like it, don't come here.

 

 

nah, opinion and mouthing off is cheap, people are entitled to their worship and politics and general opinions until it hurts people

 

hard to want pro-active hammering on people for their opinions, it can turn on you in a picosecond after you stop cheering...

Posted

 

 

nah, opinion and mouthing off is cheap, people are entitled to their worship and politics and general opinions until it hurts people

 

hard to want pro-active hammering on people for their opinions, it can turn on you in a picosecond after you stop cheering...

 

Well let's hope it's not YOUR family affected.

 

I imagine the families of those who are hold a different opinion.

Posted

 

 

nah, opinion and mouthing off is cheap, people are entitled to their worship and politics and general opinions until it hurts people

 

 

 

Define hurt.

Posted

 

Define hurt.

 

blowing everyone around you to Kingdom Come with a bomb strapped to your body is hurting

 

walking into a place of employment and shooting everything that moves with an arsenal of weapons on your person is hurting

 

is that specific enough?

 

till you get to that point it's tough to take someone down though, we have elected governments that believe privacy is more important than preventative arrests on those "most likely to"

Posted (edited)

 

Do you believe in the separation of church and state? The vast majority of Muslims in Asian and African nations do not, including Jordan and Palestine (Pew 2015).

 

As of 2013 being an atheist could get you executed in exactly 13 countries, all of which are Islamic by law (obviously not Western).

 

As of 2010 70% of Jordanian Muslims are in favor of stoning as an appropriate punishment for adultery, 58% are in favor of whipping or cutting off of hands for thievery or robbery, and a whopping 86% are in favor of the death penalty for those who turn from Islam (Pew).

 

Also 2010, 55% of Jordanian Muslims view Hezbollah favorably, 60% view Hamas favorably, and 34% view al-Qaeda favorably.

 

Also 2010, 45% of Jordanian Muslims believe that suicide bombing can be justified.

 

Meanwhile the numbers don't even begin to compare to Muslims in Western nations. It's not the same, it's not even close, which I believe points to a strong influence of tribalism among Muslims in places that aren't the West. That's what I was referring to when I said your brand of Islam, an Islam either not infected by or minimally influenced by tribalism.

Yes I do.

 

As far as all that other stuff is concerned I'm only speaking out of my own personal experiences with people. If I was the one conducting these polls those numbers would be far different.

Edited by Justice
Posted

 

blowing everyone around you to Kingdom Come with a bomb strapped to your body is hurting

 

walking into a place of employment and shooting everything that moves with an arsenal of weapons on your person is hurting

 

is that specific enough?

 

till you get to that point it's tough to take someone down though, we have elected governments that believe privacy is more important than preventative arrests on those "most likely to"

 

So you only care about physical hurt?

Posted

 

As far as all that other stuff is concerned I'm only speaking out of my own personal experiences with people. If I was the one conducting these polls those numbers would be far different.

 

No doubt. We tend to "stick to our own," as it were. You're fairly reasonable, so you tend to talk to fairly reasonable people.

 

Lame virtue signaling upthread aside, there are lots of unreasonable people in the world. The particular set we're discussing just happens to have added civilian casualties to their resume supposedly in the name of your god.

Posted

 

No doubt. We tend to "stick to our own," as it were. You're fairly reasonable, so you tend to talk to fairly reasonable people.

 

Lame virtue signaling upthread aside, there are lots of unreasonable people in the world. The particular set we're discussing just happens to have added civilian casualties to their resume supposedly in the name of your god.

That's a reality these days and I can't even begin to wrap my head around it. I'm genuinely confused and perplexed. Muslims should have to pay a price for what's happening around the world today. I wouldn't object to recording devices or bugs planted in every Muslim school and mosque. If they're teaching that stuff there they need to be stopped. If they object then they must be hiding something.

Posted

That's a reality these days and I can't even begin to wrap my head around it. I'm genuinely confused and perplexed. Muslims should have to pay a price for what's happening around the world today. I wouldn't object to recording devices or bugs planted in every Muslim school and mosque. If they're teaching that stuff there they need to be stopped. If they object then they must be hiding something.

I would venture a guess that it's not what's being explicitly taught at the schools and mosques per se, but rather what inherent associations its most susceptible members make with radicalization being the outcome, which certainly seem head and shoulders above other modern organized religions.

Posted

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/why-salman-abedi-grew-to-hate-us/19866#.WScY8Ovytpi

 

 

 

Abedi was not disenfranchised. He was not rejected by British society. He was taught to reject and hate it, despite everything it gave him and his family. His older sister has reportedly said that Abedi was looking for ‘revenge’ for the ‘ill-treatment’ of Muslims in the UK and Syria. This is the circular logic of the Islamist victimhood narrative that almost every Muslim growing up in the UK will have been exposed to at one time or another. Western governments, and therefore Western societies, are to blame for all instances of intervention in Muslim majority countries, and are equally culpable should they fail to intervene.

 

...

 

Islamists, for decades, have regarded Britain not as a family, but as a place to eat and sleep on their way to somewhere else. While the privileged wring their hands and wonder what they might have done to offend their exotic guests, those to whom the house belongs are beginning to pipe up and object. Whenever they do – for example, when their kids are murdered at a pop concert – their more sophisticated relatives seem mostly preoccupied with the desire to avoid a scene.

Openly discussing Islamism is not an attack on me or any other British Muslim. We are the hostages of Islamism and its vampire preachers who weaponised Salman Abedi and used him to slaughter 22 innocents, in the midst of their joy, out of sheer spite. Speaking frankly and honestly about this horror is the only hope we have of emerging from it as anything resembling a cohesive British family.

Posted (edited)

That's a reality these days and I can't even begin to wrap my head around it. I'm genuinely confused and perplexed. Muslims should have to pay a price for what's happening around the world today. I wouldn't object to recording devices or bugs planted in every Muslim school and mosque. If they're teaching that stuff there they need to be stopped. If they object then they must be hiding something.

You've come a long way, Pilgrim. I don't think this was a position you could have possibly conceived of taking 3 years ago. I'm not in favor of carte blanche surveillance in our country like you suggest. I have no problem doing so outside of the U.S. though.

Edited by grinreaper
Posted

That's a reality these days and I can't even begin to wrap my head around it. I'm genuinely confused and perplexed. Muslims should have to pay a price for what's happening around the world today. I wouldn't object to recording devices or bugs planted in every Muslim school and mosque. If they're teaching that stuff there they need to be stopped. If they object then they must be hiding something.

 

Nope, not the way we do things in the US and Canada, and hopefully never will.

 

Here you are free to your opinions and your comments (mostly) and unless it's a once-a-century emergency will stay that way.

 

 

 

The polarization on law enforcement and punishment is large now, but now as large as it was when the options seemed to be:

 

1) Bomb them and let the cinders bounce for 1,000 years.

 

trying to debate with

 

2) Fire all the policemen and hand out LSD and we'll have a wonderful society that is crime-free.

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