papazoid Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 What a nightmare situation this is Regardless of Marrone's issues and Orton's limitations the Bille were in way better shape next year with those two At the very least they gave us a punchers chance to make the playoffs and buy a year until the Bills had a first round pick to try and take another shot at a QB orton sucked and marrone is mediocre. why do people assume what comes next will be worse ? we're not doomed !
NoSaint Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 What a nightmare situation this is Regardless of Marrone's issues and Orton's limitations the Bille were in way better shape next year with those two At the very least they gave us a punchers chance to make the playoffs and buy a year until the Bills had a first round pick to try and take another shot at a QB if EJ plays well (or in your case orton) we arent picking up a great qb in the draft based on a low slot, and if EJ fails - so be it, we get a high pick and make a go of it. at some point you need to push the chips in and find out what you have with the guy (unless some stellar option pops up)
BmarvB Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000455062/article/report-bills-gm-wants-next-coach-to-revive-ej-manuel I honestly think we might lose out a good HC now. I don't like how DW is doing this. If i was a HC and they want me to develop EJ and i want my own QB then i wouldn't take the bills job. 1) EJ hasn't played enough for us to really know what we have in him. 2) Let's remember the who the coach was (Marrone), and how well he held back the offense overall. 3) "Revive"?? NO! Let's try 'Develop", and Whaley is right to give preference to a coach who is willing and capable of developing a young QB. 4) YES, we need a coach who can succeed with developing EJ where Marrone has failed. If the next coach isn't capable of doing that, then why bother making him the next coach? 5) A 'good' coach isn't afraid to embrace and take on the challenge, and I highly doubt Whaley is going to force feed EJ and EJ alone on a new coach knowing he still needs to have a plan B in place at the position. 6) I have faith in Whaley doing the right thing to keep the Bills going in the right direction. Just leave him alone to do what he's gonna do to make this happen! Edited January 7, 2015 by BmarvB
TheFunPolice Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 The problem is that EJ just isn't good. I'm not against giving him a shot to compete just to see but do you want to waste this defense again? It's probably Whaley trying to convince coaches that the QB spot here isn't a total disaster.
NoSaint Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 The problem is that EJ just isn't good. I'm not against giving him a shot to compete just to see but do you want to waste this defense again? It's probably Whaley trying to convince coaches that the QB spot here isn't a total disaster. ok - so what is the "good" option that we have as an alternative today? EJ may not prove to be good, but as far as options go its easy to sell him as a good choice in the crowd of whats available.
FireChan Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 He's never going to say that. He's going to say that EJ had brand new HC and brand new OC as a rookie, with no QB coach. Then got hurt in training camp. He never really had a full rookie season and there wasn't time or resources to develop him. The second year he had all these voices in his head telling him not to make mistakes and we think it held him back. By the fourth week, even though he was 2-2 against three top defenses, we made a decision to go with the vet. And there wasn't time over the last 12 weeks to devote to him. He was a project coming out of college with a lot of talent and tools. We think with the proper development he can be a very solid starter in this league. We are bringing in one or two other Qbs to compete with him. This is all well and good, but what if an offensive minded guy has a possibly available QB in mind? What if Shanny comes in the interview and says, "I'll try to bring along EJ but I've worked with Cutler before and had some success. I want to get him." What do you do? What does Whaley do?
Beef Jerky Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Do you have a suggestion for who should be the focal point?It is easy to say, but there aren't many options that are definitely available.A lot of people mention Brqadford, RG3, Foles or Cutler. There is an excellent chance that none of them are available. The list of pending UFAs is uninspiring, to say the least.So, you hate EJ. Who is your better option at this point? You draft a QB and bring in a vet. Then you let them all compete, very simple.
Agent 91 Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 What else would you expect? They scouted EJ and decided he was worthy of a #1 pick. Do you think they will just throw him away after 14 starts? What about kaeps oc... forgot his name that fast You would assume that, if all of the coaching candidates are telling them that EJ is unsalvageable, then the Pegulas would take that to heart and either dump Whaley or get him to put a plan together to upgrade the position. But if one of these innovative, offensive minds thinks he can make something out of EJ, that seems to make the most sense. I know a lot of the 'experts' at TBD have already decided that EJ is garbage and can never improve. I believe it is wise to the Bills to still have an open mind. They already wasted a 2015 first round pick to move up for Sammy last year, it isn't wise to throw their 2013 in the garbage heap so quickly. Not to mention that there is a terrifying lack of QB options available to them if they do decide EJ is beyond repair. Time will tell. I personally like the idea of Bevell, Reich, Hue Jackson or even Kyle Shanahan working with EJ. I imagine the Bills won't put all of their eggs in one basket, so I expect them to bring in a free agent (I like Mallett) and draft one (no clue who, I don't follow college ball very closely).
Kelly the Dog Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 This is all well and good, but what if an offensive minded guy has a possibly available QB in mind? What if Shanny comes in the interview and says, "I'll try to bring along EJ but I've worked with Cutler before and had some success. I want to get him." What do you do? What does Whaley do? He says, "Awesome." We'll see if we can get him for the right price. We still want to develop EJ. Every team in this league as you well know needs two QBs."
FireChan Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 He says, "Awesome." We'll see if we can get him for the right price. We still want to develop EJ. Every team in this league as you well know needs two QBs." Right. What if Shanny is not high on EJ at all and wants an FA brought in? Do you pass on Shanahan because EJ's "got something?"
BillsVet Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Does anyone remember 5 years ago the Bills getting turned down for interviews by the likes of Brian Schottenheimer, Jim Harbaugh, et al.? Now they're getting interviews, but as with back then, they still don't have a QB. And yet Whaley is insisting that they do or will have one for what I figure is one of if not two reasons: 1. He made the call on Manuel and league insiders know this. He's going to take the heat for it if Manuel doesn't develop and doesn't want someone who'll go another direction. I suspect he wants to use resources on the OL, perhaps RB, and TE and hope Manuel improves tremendously. 2. He doesn't see a way for them to get a better option this off-season. EJ's thrown 437 NFL passes. Coaching may not have been solid, but to lay the blame on Marrone (who's out the door making it convenient) is a cop-out. Manuel at his best cannot get this team to the playoffs. And it should be expected that Buffalo make the post-season in 2015. It'll be interesting to see who they end up with. Because career minded people like NFL DC/OC/HC's don't sign up for wet-nursing QB's.
NoSaint Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Right. What if Shanny is not high on EJ at all and wants an FA brought in? Do you pass on Shanahan because EJ's "got something?" if he has a strong preference for an available guy, it sounds like a great option to bring in and compete with EJ (and hopefully win on merit) if he is coming and saying i want cutler and could not work with anyone else, why in the world would you hire him knowing A) you might not get cutler B) he would likely have to work with someone at some point
BmarvB Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 This is all well and good, but what if an offensive minded guy has a possibly available QB in mind? What if Shanny comes in the interview and says, "I'll try to bring along EJ but I've worked with Cutler before and had some success. I want to get him." What do you do? What does Whaley do? I'm not a big fan of Cutler, but I'd have to say OK, let's do it. Let EJ and Cutler compete (ONLY if the price is right) and may the best man win.
TheFunPolice Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Whaley is just trying to sell people on EJ having potential. He wants to help Pegula land the guy they want. They want to make EJ sound more impressive than he is. It has to be that, or this team will be looking at 8-8 next yeat
FireChan Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 if he has a strong preference for an available guy, it sounds like a great option to bring in and compete with EJ (and hopefully win on merit) if he is coming and saying i want cutler and could not work with anyone else, why in the world would you hire him knowing A) you might not get cutler B) he would likely have to work with someone at some point True. One guy is a little far fetched. What if he's got a handful of guys he wants to work with, that doesn't include EJ. How do you weigh the value of the HC with the desire to work with EJ? I don't want some bum as HC because he thinks EJ is just swell. And I think we already had a coach who thinks EJ sucks.
jahnyc Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 This is why it is problematic to have Whaley leading the search for a new head coach. He will have his own agenda, which will include wanting to further secure his position as GM by suggesting that EJ has a world of talent and just needs to further develop. I would think that most if not all of these head coaching candidates studied the Bills and the game film to some extent before interviewing and have some preliminary judgments about the Bills and whether EJ has potential. Maybe understanding that they will report directly to the owner will reduce concerns about Whaley's agenda or future role, but I do think it would have been helpful to have a football czar participating in this interview process for the Bills.
TheFunPolice Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 No good candidate is going to take this job if the expectation is EJ starts in 2015. These guys watch film. They are in the league. They have opinions about EJ already. I'll bet a lot of this is Whaley trying to address their concerns about EJ and convince THEM that EJ isn't a total disaster.
Formerly Allan in MD Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000455062/article/report-bills-gm-wants-next-coach-to-revive-ej-manuel I honestly think we might lose out a good HC now. I don't like how DW is doing this. If i was a HC and they want me to develop EJ and i want my own QB then i wouldn't take the bills job. Totally agree. No one really good is going to want to "develop" a quarterback who has exhibited significant deficiencies in accuracy and feel for the game, unless of course they see something there few others can see. Whaley, if he's truly pushing that agenda with prospective coaches is making a mistake. Self justification, if that's what's under the surface, should not be part of this search.
TheFunPolice Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Plus the HC will report to the owner, not the GM That tells me Whaley is just taking a page out of Russ Brandon's marketing book
Webster Guy Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 I posted a few weeks ago that the New England game was a lost opportunity for EJ, that they should have at least played him in the second half. Got slammed pretty hard for it by a lot of you. Now that we see Marrone was just trying to pad his resume by getting a 9th win against scrubs in a meaningless game, and Orton was quitting football altogether the following day, wouldn't it have been nice for a new coach to be able to look at EJ's progress (or lack thereof) in a live NFL game after he sat out a dozen games? Our goal is to win a championship. Preseason for next year must start the second we are out of playoff contention.
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