Miyagi-Do Karate Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Someone here recently posted a great excerpt from a book written by Trent Dilfer where he recounted his college days during which he had a very positive coach, and contrasted that with his declining play in the pros where all he heard from his coaches were negative statements drilled into him such as "Don't turn it over"! That negativity produces tightness and negative mind sets that prevent athletes from doing their best. Coaching is critical to player development and this change could be exactly what EJ needs. I think that is what happened to Orton too. The guy regressed dramatically as the season went on. Went from downfield baller to 3-yard check downs.
YoloinOhio Posted January 6, 2015 Author Posted January 6, 2015 I think that is what happened to Orton too. The guy regressed dramatically as the season went on. Went from downfield baller to 3-yard check downs. Yep and defenses got film of him in the offense but the coaches never adjusted.
eball Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Has anyone heard if any other coachs have been let go? They all must be looking at other options. Balony Marronie can't take them all. Hope the O goes and the D stays with what ever new HC comes in. What ever. We are in trouble. Maybe Kim knows football. All of them are under contract with the Bills through 2015, and can't do anything (besides quit) until a new HC is hired and makes decisions concerning the staff.
plenzmd1 Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 I'm rather hoping it plays out this way. So am I...and welcome to the official Hackett/EJ fan boy club...i am a charter member
Kelly the Dog Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 I think that is what happened to Orton too. The guy regressed dramatically as the season went on. Went from downfield baller to 3-yard check downs. It was inarguable. The only thing we don't know is if it was more him or more his coach telling him don't make mistakes. I have argued for months that it was the latter, but we really don't know. The more that comes out about Marrone, especially Fred;s comments, the more I believe it was Marrone. Orton retiring so quick doesn't tell us anything because it seemed like Marrone was still going to be there. I would LOVE to hear what Orton says now (although he would probably never say it was him).
Best Player Available Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 So much for EJ not being Whaley's pick.interesting observation!
The Big Cat Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 So am I...and welcome to the official Hackett/EJ fan boy club...i am a charter member Hackett has a rep for being spastically enthusiastic, approaching each day of his career like a 12 year old tearing open a new addition of Madden. Seems like one HELL of a contrast to the surly Doug Marrone. Coupled with the receivers shown on the all-22's running wild all over the field, I'd really like to see what Boy Wonder could do with a change of attitude. It was inarguable. The only thing we don't know is if it was more him or more his coach telling him don't make mistakes. I have argued for months that it was the latter, but we really don't know. The more that comes out about Marrone, especially Fred;s comments, the more I believe it was Marrone. Orton retiring so quick doesn't tell us anything because it seemed like Marrone was still going to be there. I would LOVE to hear what Orton says now (although he would probably never say it was him). As I was driving to work today I was fantasizing about calling up Orton to ghostwrite his 2014 tell-all.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 As I was driving to work today I was fantasizing about calling up Orton to ghostwrite his 2014 tell-all. I'm sure he would turn you down for someone who actually understood what was going on and that Marrone was an idiot.
TheFunPolice Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Bills fans talking themselves into Hackett Jesus this is depressing
eball Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 It was inarguable. The only thing we don't know is if it was more him or more his coach telling him don't make mistakes. I have argued for months that it was the latter, but we really don't know. The more that comes out about Marrone, especially Fred;s comments, the more I believe it was Marrone. Orton retiring so quick doesn't tell us anything because it seemed like Marrone was still going to be there. I would LOVE to hear what Orton says now (although he would probably never say it was him). With all that has transpired over the last week we are being forced (or at least I am) to reconsider all of the opinions we have regarding the players on offense. When Orton retired my first inclination was that he "obviously" didn't want to play any more and went into self-preservation mode as the season progressed. Now, it's not so clear. Maybe he just wasn't having any fun. It's entirely possible that the overwhelming black cloud of Saint Doug hung over that entire offense. I truly hope Whaley's fingerprints are all over the next coach they hire. He has the mentality (calm, cool, strategic, positive) that I want in the HC.
Best Player Available Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) I continue to say he looked better as a rookie than he did in 2014. I don't know what happened, but I'd love to see him with a different coach and a scheme suited toward his strengths. I just don't trust Marrone anymore, and it leads me to believe he was not committed to his development.not trying to be a jerk, but EJ's strength is handing the rock off. he was getting receivers clocked and his accuracy through college and the pros sucked. How does that get better by coaching? i think Maroon had to be on board with him being drafted he had Nassib sitting there for rounds after the pick. or could have taken him. Who does not want to see EJ succeed? But the odds are heavily stacked against him............ Then again once upon a time a long long itime ago there was a guy named Steve Young....................so? Edited January 6, 2015 by Best Player Available
NoSaint Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 With all that has transpired over the last week we are being forced (or at least I am) to reconsider all of the opinions we have regarding the players on offense. When Orton retired my first inclination was that he "obviously" didn't want to play any more and went into self-preservation mode as the season progressed. Now, it's not so clear. Maybe he just wasn't having any fun. It's entirely possible that the overwhelming black cloud of Saint Doug hung over that entire offense. I truly hope Whaley's fingerprints are all over the next coach they hire. He has the mentality (calm, cool, strategic, positive) that I want in the HC. agreed. and while he hasnt hit homeruns on every move (who does?), i definitely like the vision he has for the team and his processes.
gordong Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 I'll be honest, I don't know what to believe anymore. If they are interviewing Kyle it has to be for a HC position not a OC position. Right now there is so much information that is wrong being thrown out, who's to say Vic's is more accurate then the other stuff being reported. I have no problem with them developing EJ, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't go out and get the BEST QB we can in the meantime, if EJ beats him out great if not sit and learn for a year or two. We can't put the immediate future in EJ's hands without a sound plan A / B.
NoSaint Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 not trying to be a jerk, but EJ's strength is handing the rock off. he was getting receivers clocked and his accuracy through college and the pros sucked. How does that get better by coaching? i think Maroon had to be on board with him being drafted he had Nassib sitting there for rounds after the pick. or could have taken him. Who does not want to see EJ succeed? But the odds are heavily stacked against him............ Then again once upon a time a long long itime ago there was a guy named Steve Young....................so? at some point a large segment of this board accepted that accuracy never improves for a qb. as the game slows, protection improves, and the scheme makes more sense along with having guys work with him on fine tuning mechanics, its silly to think that it couldnt improve.... in fact it should, some, unless a guy got a heavy dose of PTSD behind his line and a crazy coach in his ear.
Peter Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 FWIW - I do not think that EJ has hit his ceiling. Obviously (to quote DM), I do not know whether he can or cannot be a top 15 NFL QB. Nevertheless, he is a good kid and works hard and is on our team. Whether we get someone else or not, we sure as you know what better develop him to see whether he can be a solid starter or backup.
Tintonfallsbillsfan Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 two things. 1 Whaley is putting his reputation and his future on the line is support of E.j 2 E,j can make all the throws as they say, is mobile and big. Now what we don;t know is what he can do under pressure . I believe he was being pushed to be ultra safe and this will def stunt your development. The Jets except for the first Miami game let Geno rip it and you get a much better idea of what a qb can and can not do. I understand Marrone needed to win games thus orton but we are really nowhere with evaluating e.j
eball Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 not trying to be a jerk, but EJ's strength is handing the rock off. he was getting receivers clocked and his accuracy through college and the pros sucked. How does that get better by coaching? i think Maroon had to be on board with him being drafted he had Nassib sitting there for rounds after the pick. or could have taken him. Who does not want to see EJ succeed? But the odds are heavily stacked against him............ Then again once upon a time a long long itime ago there was a guy named Steve Young....................so? I'm not trying to be a jerk either, but here's an article about EJ from right after he was drafted. Granted, comparisons to Geno Smith and Barkley don't carry much weight now, but if we're just talking about the numbers... Also, look at how much better EJ was on the move, something I swear I've heard numerous people around here say he can't do. It's foolish to give up on him at this point.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) Probably right. Still it scares me knowing they went into August with Manuel, Tuel and Thad as their QB's until what looks like Marrone pushed Whaley to sign Orton. What does that say about Whaley? I think it says nothing about Whaley because that's only a notion that's how it went down. There was stuff in the media about the Bills sniffing around Orton "early" but Orton wouldn't sign until just before the season (one theory is he was waiting to see what starters might get hurt) Edited January 6, 2015 by Hopeful
Kelly the Dog Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 at some point a large segment of this board accepted that accuracy never improves for a qb. as the game slows, protection improves, and the scheme makes more sense along with having guys work with him on fine tuning mechanics, its silly to think that it couldnt improve.... in fact it should, some, unless a guy got a heavy dose of PTSD behind his line and a crazy coach in his ear. Confidence improves accuracy tremendously.
YoloinOhio Posted January 6, 2015 Author Posted January 6, 2015 @ChrisTrapasso: When my source told me "Whaley won battle w/ Marrone" after Marrone opted-out, he must have been referencing EJ Manuel, among other things.
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