plenzmd1 Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 I've said all along he was Whaley's pick. All roads lead to Whaley with that one. I dont believe he has ever backed away from the EJ pick. He has said it was a consensus, Bills pick, he was part of the consensus, and he was all for the pick.
Wayne Cubed Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 I thought EJ should have been benched and have doubts about him. Saying that, there is reason to believe another coach may be able to get something out of him. What do we know about what Marrone was telling Manuel? He was telling him: To run out of bounds. Don't take risks. Don't turn the ball over. Play safe. And if what Marrones former colleague was saying is true, that he thinks about his next job as soon as he is hired, there's no way he would put the time in to even develop Manuel.
NoSaint Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 it would be crazy not to take a look at manuel. he has never started more than a month straight and theres no indication that anyone on the market is better now, or higher upside long term. pair him with another guy and let them battle. but it would be silly to throw the kid out the door. if he had the same resume but in oakland, or minnesota wed be hoping we got a shot at him and saying it was remarkable what he did given the organizational disfunction...
billsfan1959 Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Whaley is the antithesis of Marrone -- cool, focused, and strategic. Always thinking ahead, sticking to the plan and not succumbing to knee-jerk reactions. A reasonable man does not give up on EJ Manuel after 14 games. Absolutely spot on.
Buffalo_Stampede Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 If you want EJ then let Hackett coach him without Marrone.
The Big Cat Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 I scoffed at the Doug Marrone "neuters" his quarterbacks theory. Quite vehemently, in fact. Now I'm willing to buy into it. For a couple reasons: The mountain of corroborating, albeit hearsay, evidence from former colleagues and "sources." Fred's comments. This is best indication we've had, IMO. I just want something to look forward to. So, congrats, guys. You've got a convert now.
Buffalo_Stampede Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 If you want EJ then let Hackett coach him without Marrone.Just promote Schwartz and Pepper and be done with it.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) I've said all along he was Whaley's pick. All roads lead to Whaley with that one. Considering the coach search, the retirement, and Nix saying several times he was not leaving until there was a franchise QB in place, there is no question it was a Nix pick. I firmly believe however, that it was also a Whaley pick and he was totally in favor of it. Their choices were EJ, Geno and Glennon, or worse, Barkley and Nassib. The rest of the draft, with not southern boys from big southern schools, seemed to be more Whaley. But Nix had a huge say in the QB Edited January 6, 2015 by Kelly the Dog
The Big Cat Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 If you want EJ then let Hackett coach him without Marrone. I'm rather hoping it plays out this way.
eball Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Considering the coach search, the retirement, and Nix saying several times he was not leaving until there was a franchise QB in place, there is no question it was a Nix pick. I firmly believe however, that it was also a Whaley pick and he was totally in favor of it. Their coaches were EJ, Geno and Glennon, or worse, Barkley and Nassib. Christ, I completely forgot about that guy. Where is he?
YoloinOhio Posted January 6, 2015 Author Posted January 6, 2015 I scoffed at the Doug Marrone "neuters" his quarterbacks theory. Quite vehemently, in fact. Now I'm willing to buy into it. For a couple reasons: The mountain of corroborating, albeit hearsay, evidence from former colleagues and "sources." Fred's comments. This is best indication we've had, IMO. I just want something to look forward to. So, congrats, guys. You've got a convert now. I think Marrone showed his hand. He cannot be trusted, therefore I can't give him the benefit of the doubt anymore with these things. There aren't many people related to the Bills more trustworthy IMO than Fred Jackson, and he went on record. So I think I agree. Christ, I completely forgot about that guy. Where is he? Sanchez's backup with Iggles.
BillnutinHouston Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Someone here recently posted a great excerpt from a book written by Trent Dilfer where he recounted his college days during which he had a very positive coach, and contrasted that with his declining play in the pros where all he heard from his coaches were negative statements drilled into him such as "Don't turn it over"! That negativity produces tightness and negative mind sets that prevent athletes from doing their best. Coaching is critical to player development and this change could be exactly what EJ needs.
YoloinOhio Posted January 6, 2015 Author Posted January 6, 2015 Someone here recently posted a great excerpt from a book written by Trent Dilfer where he recounted his college days during which he had a very positive coach, and contrasted that with his declining play in the pros where all he heard from his coaches were negative statements drilled into him such as "Don't turn it over"! That negativity produces tightness and negative mind sets that prevent athletes from doing their best. Coaching is critical to player development and this change could be exactly what EJ needs. Here it is - it made me think of EJ as soon as I saw it: Mike McCartney @MikeMcCartney7 Dec 24 RT @BrendanLeister: Too many coaches act in the way Trent Dilfer describes his NFL coaches. It’s a shame.
H2o Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Christ, I completely forgot about that guy. Where is he? Barkley? Asking to be traded from the Eagles.... I think.
Deranged Rhino Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Exactly. People are not thinking at all when they are trashing Whaley for what he is doing because they think EJ sucks. The Bills are trying to get the best guy to come here, and the best offensive mind, and the best developer of QBs whether it is EJ or anyone else. He would be an idiot if he said anything bad about EJ. They wouldn't want the job as much, and they wouldn't provide insight on how they would develop a raw but talented quarterback, whether it's EJ or not. Not to mention that EJ is the only QB we have on the team so that guy is going to try to develop him. I can't believe the near-sightedness of some people. Oh, wait a nanosecond. Yes, I can. Carry on. Absolutely, as GM his job is to find the right fit for his team and his team has had a huge hole at QB for over a decade now. It's imperative that whomever they hire, he should be a coach who's able to develop the most important position on the field. Take EJ out of the discussion for a moment and think of the alternatives available to the team. There's no draft pick coming to the rescue this year (and I don't think there's one in this entire incoming class), leaving trading for another team's starter/castoff or signing someone off the UFA wire as the only real options. Regardless of whether it's Bradford, Cutler, Moore, etc. -- they are all QBs who still need to be developed. Either developed out of their bad habits (Cutler) or developed into the talent they've flashed (Bradford / Moore). Of course it's silly to take EJ out of that equation. He's young, locked in for reasonable money for two more seasons, and may well be the best available QB out there when it's all said and done. So Whaley would be insane not to be approaching these meetings from a "who can develop a QB best" direction. It's the most important element that's missing from the team. I continue to say he looked better as a rookie than he did in 2014. I don't know what happened, but I'd love to see him with a different coach and a scheme suited toward his strengths. I just don't trust Marrone anymore, and it leads me to believe he was not committed to his development. 100%. Every QB under Marrone regressed. Thad won games for us in '13 and yet during camp he looked like he'd be in danger of getting cut from St. John Fisher's squad, let alone an NFL club. EJ wasn't a savior in his rookie year (nor was he expected to be), but he certainly looked like there was something there to build off of, even if the injuries raised question marks about his durability. Flash to '14 and he looks like he had forgotten how to throw the ball by the end of the Houston game. We saw the same regression from Orton throughout this season; he came out hot and then had a putrid final stretch. The one thing they all had in common by the end? They all looked tentative. That smacks of coaching for me. Someone was in their ear preaching conservatism and game management rather than how to attack a defense and let it rip. Based on the reports since Marrone's departure, I don't think it's really debatable that he ran the offense, and its personnel, into the ground for a myriad of reasons. Most of them ****ty. Whaley needs to be fired, he obviously is delusional towards EJ and just hopes to save face for a bad pick This is what I don't understand. You might be proven 100% correct in the end, EJ might be everything you've warned us about and worse. I fully concede that. And I understand statements like this during the season from fans, while the season is in motion the bloodlust gets up and people get emotional. I get that and do it myself. But I don't get how fans can't step back at this juncture and take a big picture look at the team, its needs, and its options. As stated above, the team needs help at QB desperately. No one would deny that, and I don't think for a second Whaley won't add a starting caliber vet either through trade or FA. So let's accept those as basic foundations: the Bills need to improve at QB and the front office will bring in a vet at some point. EJ is still under contract (for a bargain) for two more seasons. He's played in 14 games in what we all can agree was a pretty difficult situation coaching wise and offensive philosophy wise. History is filled with stories of young QBs who look terrible before the "light comes on" or they get with a coach who fits their style, there's no reason to think it's impossible for EJ to follow a similar path. Unlikely? Probably, again I concede that. But as a fan, why wouldn't you be rooting for the guy to turn the corner at this point? It could only help the team... And I'd hope at the very least a GM would understand this, and ask his coaching candidates how they'd help improve the only asset the team has at the most important position on the field.
Direhard Fan Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) Has anyone heard if any other coachs have been let go? They all must be looking at other options. Balony Marronie can't take them all. Hope the O goes and the D stays with what ever new HC comes in. What ever. We are in trouble. Maybe Kim knows football. Edited January 6, 2015 by Direhard Fan
Kelly the Dog Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Here it is - it made me think of EJ as soon as I saw it: Mike McCartney @MikeMcCartney7 Dec 24 RT @BrendanLeister: Too many coaches act in the way Trent Dilfer describes his NFL coaches. It’s a shame. That's a really good paragraph and point, and has been proven over and over to be true. It's very possible that is what happened with EJ and Orton, who also became more and more tentative the more he played wit Marrone. Of course, you can be positive with crappy players and they will still be crappy. The jury is still out on EJ, although we are halfway through the trial and there has been some damning evidence. But the defense counsel is about to be hired and take the stand.
NoSaint Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) I got no issues with it but bring in a viable guy to compete with him. Not Jeff Tuel and Thad Lewis. It makes me think Orton was pushed on Whaley by Marrone. Forcing EJ on the coaching staff is not a good idea.... i think they are not trying to force EJ on the staff but in acknowledging that he might be the best option available trying to find a relationship that maximizes that asset (even if not a GREAT asset). if you pick up a coach that HATES ej, our qb situation becomes even worse and you might still end up having to play ej and force a square peg into a round hole. regardless of if EJ pans out, he seems to be the prototype for what whaley wants long term (big ben -- big, strong armed, mobile but not a runner).... so it makes sense to get a coach that likes the same prototype Edited January 6, 2015 by NoSaint
swnybillsfan Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 If you want EJ then let Hackett coach him without Marrone. i would be very interested to see what nathaniel hackett would do if left to his own devises. the guy speaks with energy and enthusiasm and his players seem to have a really high opinion of him. and the general opinion of him has been that he has a good understanding of the game and has innovative ideas. the million dollar question is whether or not that was his vision of the offense or coach marrone's. seemingly it was the latter, but who knows.
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