NoSaint Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) My opinion of EJ hasn't changed since he was drafted. He's a project with a very good ceiling. One of his problems is that he is so huge that he has struggled with his mechanics. The guy as a 7' wingspan. He is all arms and legs and any fan of baseball knows that that combination in a thrower makes it harder to harness mechanics. But very often they can. See Randy Johnson as a prime example. Went from not being able to throw a strike in his 20's to becoming precise at 30. To avoid a Byron Leftwich-type long release....by basically shortening his arm.... EJ uses an abbreviated throwing motion which keeps his elbow parallel to his shoulder thru most of his motion. But he still has long legs to deal with and his footwork was abysmal as a rookie. He worked on it all offseason but the guy just wasn't ready to impersonate a pocket passer. If they insist on him playing pocket passer, it could take years to hone his combination of physical awkwardness and mental unpreparedness. IMO no coaches or GM have time for that. I say cut the guy......and a number of young QB's....LOOSE. Put them in an up-tempo attack and give them easy reads and let them use their feet. In a lot of respects creating a pocket passer is very much about taking the athlete out of these guys. What's the difference if they tear up a knee and never make it or flame out like JP Losman? Let them play and have re-inforcements at the ready. ill more or less agree and appreciate the thoughtful post on his mechanics - and it buys you time to work with them on some of the other things. embrace what they do well instead of forcing what they struggle at and maybe you get the confidence and time to iron out some of the challenges they face. Edited January 6, 2015 by NoSaint
dave mcbride Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 My opinion of EJ hasn't changed since he was drafted. He's a project with a very good ceiling. One of his problems is that he is so huge that he has struggled with his mechanics. The guy as a 7' wingspan. He is all arms and legs and any fan of baseball knows that that combination in a thrower makes it harder to harness mechanics. But very often they can. See Randy Johnson as a prime example. Went from not being able to throw a strike in his 20's to becoming precise at 30. To avoid a Byron Leftwich-type long release....by basically shortening his arm.... EJ uses an abbreviated throwing motion which keeps his elbow parallel to his shoulder thru most of his motion. But he still has long legs to deal with and his footwork was abysmal as a rookie. He worked on it all offseason but the guy just wasn't ready to impersonate a pocket passer. If they insist on him playing pocket passer, it could take years to hone his combination of physical awkwardness and mental unpreparedness. IMO no coaches or GM have time for that. I say cut the guy......and a number of young QB's....LOOSE. Put them in an up-tempo attack and give them easy reads and let them use their feet. In a lot of respects creating a pocket passer is very much about taking the athlete out of these guys. What's the difference if they tear up a knee and never make it or flame out like JP Losman? Let them play and have re-inforcements at the ready. Marrone did the exact opposite of this. In retrospect, it was a terrible decision and amounted to genuinely bad tactics.
The Big Cat Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 ill more or less agree and appreciate the thoughtful post on his mechanics - and it buys you time to work with them on some of the other things. embrace what they do well instead of forcing what they struggle at and maybe you get the confidence and time to iron out some of the challenges they face. Sounds like a ringing endorsement for Kyle Shanny
BuffaninATL Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 That's good on you, Paul -- I forgot about that. Makes sense, repaying that kindness... I enjoy your posts without reservation eball , but "good on you" is that nouveau 2014 little catchphrase that I wish would go away....))
Juice_32 Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 It's amazing how quickly fans give up on young players. This all the way. Especially with what has come to light about Marrone. EJ fits the mold of a player killed by coaching. Let's see what the kid has got.
NoSaint Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Sounds like a ringing endorsement for Kyle Shanny i wouldnt HATE it, but dont love the father son pair as i dont know they are a fully functional unit together (can dad hold son accountable to the point of firing if needed?). ive been pretty open in liking how bevell handled wilson
In space no one can hear Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) LOL In the comment section under Carucci's article some one posted : AGD • an hour agoIf Whaley is pitching Manuel to prospective coaches, the Bills will probably have to interview more than 19 people. Edited January 6, 2015 by In space no one can hear
The Big Cat Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 i wouldnt HATE it, but dont love the father son pair as i dont know they are a fully functional unit together (can dad hold son accountable to the point of firing if needed?). ive been pretty open in liking how bevell handled wilson LaConfora hears otherwise: https://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/status/552469812207955968 https://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/status/552469976071036933
Charles Romes Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 For all EJs weaknesses he has some unusual strengths the prior regime never attempted to leverage. Man can push it down the field in an instant even when on the run or off balance.
NoSaint Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 LaConfora hears otherwise: https://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/status/552469812207955968 https://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/status/552469976071036933 interesting. ill admit, i havent followed KS enough to have a strong opinion of him as a HC, and really only moderately educated on his OC credentials
YoloinOhio Posted January 6, 2015 Author Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) I think Greg Roman, who had a similar type of QB in SF with Kap, is someone with knowledge of how to approach EJ's development. Things changed in 2014 for Kap - reportedly the Niners changed the offense and Harbaugh was behind that, with Roman not in a position to override. Jmo... Not an overall endorsement of Roman but interesting nonetheless. Edited January 6, 2015 by YoloinOhio
The Big Cat Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) I think Greg Roman, who had a similar type of QB in SF with Kap, is someone with knowledge of how to approach EJ's development. Things changed in 2014 for Kap - reportedly the Niners changed the offense and Harbaugh was behind that, with Roman not in a position to override. Talked to two Niners fans today who can't stand the guy: "Can't stand Greg roman. He'd be a disaster hire. Unless he's akin to mike McCarthy who was our oc in 2-14 season before becoming HC of Green Bay." "Our RT follows and retweets an account named '@firegregroman'" Edited January 6, 2015 by The Big Cat
YoloinOhio Posted January 6, 2015 Author Posted January 6, 2015 Talked to two Niners fans today who can't stand the guy. yes I know the fans hate him
Kelly the Dog Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 For all EJs weaknesses he has some unusual strengths the prior regime never attempted to leverage. Man can push it down the field in an instant even when on the run or off balance. They also made an understandable but ultimately dumb decision in the off season to tell him not to run. That hurt him in a lot of ways. Yes, he got injured three different times in his rookie season, but he was never injury prone before, and you could see what happened each time. If he was going to be a good QB in this league he had to be able to run, even though he was never a "running QB" per se even in college. By drilling it into him not to run, and all but eliminating the zone read kind of plays where he is a threat to run, and totally limiting his rollouts where he can easier avoid the rush, it hurt his progress. In retrospect it was a mistake, like a lot of others. Again, at first blush it is understandable because of the injuries. But this isn't RGIII we're talking about. He's not slender or frail. And if he turned out to be, he's going to be out of the league in a year anyway. They should have just coached him to be a little smarter, but still be yourself.
The Big Cat Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 interesting. ill admit, i havent followed KS enough to have a strong opinion of him as a HC, and really only moderately educated on his OC credentials My impression has been that he's done well engineering a scheme to milk the most out of what little talent their is. Can't ignore Jordan Cameron coming available...
PS 56 Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Goddammit Whaley. Don't let EJ friggin Manuel be your downfall. Exactly. Don't tie your cry to one pony...
eball Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 I enjoy your posts without reservation eball , but "good on you" is that nouveau 2014 little catchphrase that I wish would go away....)) LOL -- really? I have an Irish friend who says it all the time...rubbed off on me I guess. I shall summarily dismiss it!
Captain Hindsight Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 It is 100% the Bills best interest that EJ develops. If he does, they can upgrade the roster more and more and build around him. Likely his last shot tho
Kelly the Dog Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Exactly. Don't tie your cry to one pony... There is nothing in that idea or story that says he is tied to one pony whatsoever. Nor in his actions as a GM.
FLFan Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Marrone did the exact opposite of this. In retrospect, it was a terrible decision and amounted to genuinely bad tactics. I agree and he is not the only one. See Shanahan and now Gruden in DC with RGIII, and Harbaugh with Kaepernick. It was always going to be a tough transition with these guys and you cannot just turn on a switch and say "OK, now you are something else". Very bad coaching in my opinion. I don't know if EJ will ever fulfill his promise, but I would like to see him have a fighting chance with a coach who will play to his strengths. RGIII badly needs a change of venue for this reason. He has been ruined in DC. Marrone seemingly had no clue how to play to his player's strengths on Offense - EJ, Spiller, Watkins, the OL, Mike Williams, etc. - the list is very long.
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