How long has Marrone been plainning on leaving?

[DerekJ]

You seem to be wavering between two topics.

 

1. EJ should've never been benched, and he was so Marrone could throw him under the bus.

 

No. Orton was better, and EJ had lost his confidence and the locker room.

 

2. EJ should've played in the NE game.

 

No, for reasons iterated above.

 

Neither of your assertions make sense.

Let me try this another way: Given what we now know, the motivation behind the way Marrone handled EJ is in serious question.

[FireChan]

Let me try this another way: Given what we now know, the motivation behind the way Marrone handled EJ is in serious question.

How? Who cares what Marrone's motivation was if it helped us win more games? What's the end-game difference?

 

If you think we win more games with EJ under center, that's fine. I just think you're wrong, and thus any of Marrone's ulterior motives in 2014 are irrelevant as long as the motive coincides with winning more games.

 

It was pretty much consensus that Marrone's job for 2015 was in serious jeopardy without a winning season. What purpose does it serve to question his motivation to win more games?

Edited January 7, 2015 by FireChan

[TheFunPolice]

So Marrone wouldn't play EJ because he just cared about winning?

 

That is pretty much the argument and I think it says it all.

[K8prisoner]

If their was a cartoon caption of marrone hitting his goto thought of "4 mil if you don't do it my way all year" or "the jets will do what I want " it's possible these might have colored anyone's decision if that person had a persecution complex . Only señor marrone knows and we won't . If there is smoke etc etc. I have to believe desperation and fear and even spite colored a few of his decisions. I am ecstatic I don't have to root or bet on a guy that punted down two In Oakland with dareus on the sideline . It's so easy to second guess but gutless or fear sticks around longer than just conservative in our perception ..

Somewhere you have to try to win and fail other than rationalize putting off that moment by staying in the game to hope for better odds.. If Oakland and kc didn't happen he might have not been exposed or vindicated l. I am glad he's gone if he truly denigrated subordinates and manipulated this team like kids instead of making them understand what he believed .

[DerekJ]

How? Who cares what Marrone's motivation was if it helped us win more games? What's the end-game difference?

 

If you think we win more games with EJ under center, that's fine. I just think you're wrong, and thus any of Marrone's ulterior motives in 2014 are irrelevant as long as the motive coincides with winning more games.

 

It was pretty much consensus that Marrone's job for 2015 was in serious jeopardy without a winning season. What purpose does it serve to question his motivation to win more games?

Where did I say we win more games with EJ under center?? Remember the title of this thread. Marrone likely never intended to stay in Buffalo but instead sought to pad his resume. In that context, I care very much about Marrone's motivation as he sacrificed potential long term stability for (his) short term goal, which was to get out of Dodge as soon as possible. The man could care less about developing the young talent in favor of a few extra wins.

[FireChan]

Where did I say we win more games with EJ under center?? Remember the title of this thread. Marrone likely never intended to stay in Buffalo but instead sought to pad his resume. In that context, I care very much about Marrone's motivation as he sacrificed potential long term stability for (his) short term goal, which was to get out of Dodge as soon as possible. The man could care less about developing the young talent in favor of a few extra wins.

That's a stretch. If the Bills went 6-10, I think he would've stayed (or been fired). Hell, had the Pegulas given him what he wanted, he definitely would've stayed.

 

In that context, I care very much about Marrone's motivation as he sacrificed potential long term stability for (his) short term goal, which was to get out of Dodge as soon as possible. The man could care less about developing the young talent in favor of a few extra wins.

 

How is this any different from the Watkins trade? Sacrificing the future for a short term goal of winning more games? I think it's clear that the FO and coaching staff were going "all in," on the season.

 

Fact of the matter is that sacrificing wins for possible development went out the window the second the team got sold. Whaley and Marrone no longer had the luxury of a grace period with the new owners. They needed results as soon as possible. It painted many of the personnel decisions along the way.

 

Let's go through a hypothetical. EJ plays worse than Kyle Orton the entire season. Bills go 7-9 or 6-10, staff fired. Good for the long term stability of the franchise?

 

Sure, maybe EJ was just waiting to blossom from the <200 YPG QB that he was in the beginning of the season, but I doubt it. At this juncture, the HC's job is to win the most games possible. Which meant playing Orton.

[fansince88]

That's a stretch. If the Bills went 6-10, I think he would've stayed (or been fired). Hell, had the Pegulas given him what he wanted, he definitely would've stayed.

 

In that context, I care very much about Marrone's motivation as he sacrificed potential long term stability for (his) short term goal, which was to get out of Dodge as soon as possible. The man could care less about developing the young talent in favor of a few extra wins.

 

How is this any different from the Watkins trade? Sacrificing the future for a short term goal of winning more games? I think it's clear that the FO and coaching staff were going "all in," on the season.

 

Fact of the matter is that sacrificing wins for possible development went out the window the second the team got sold. Whaley and Marrone no longer had the luxury of a grace period with the new owners. They needed results as soon as possible. It painted many of the personnel decisions along the way.

 

Let's go through a hypothetical. EJ plays worse than Kyle Orton the entire season. Bills go 7-9 or 6-10, staff fired. Good for the long term stability of the franchise?

 

Sure, maybe EJ was just waiting to blossom from the <200 YPG QB that he was in the beginning of the season, but I doubt it. At this juncture, the HC's job is to win the most games possible. Which meant playing Orton.

I do agree with much of what you have said in this topic. That said the only thing I would like you to expound on is weather you agree with what I said 100 times in the shoutbox and that is this. Last game of the year I said if he plays EJ he is playing for the future but if he plays Orton he was playing for his resume. We see now I was right because the win almost got him a 50% record. Now we see how selfish he was as he took a clause that was meant to protect him from tyranny and used it to further his own agenda

[True2Bills]

I think Marrone had thought about this since this contract was signed, but hadn't worked out in his mind how he was going leverage until it was certain that Pegula's ownership would be approved, which was 4 games into the season... At that point, the season became all about Maronne in Maronne's mind. He saw the opportunity to start to exert a larger influence, and may have even been a driver behind going after Polian. Maybe Bill would have recommended Doug to be GM after is Czar stint... Remember Polian's "unsolicited" coach of the year comments...

 

At any rate, Doug prepared for his play after the season closed, and expected it to work. Surely Polian was aware as well. We it failed, he and his agent went into backup plan mode. Full court press on the "insider" spin. The problem is, Marrone expected it to work... He is completely unprepared for interviews, and his staff is still under contract with the Bills. How in the work is he going to commit to a new team that he can pull a staff together, by promising that his old staff will get fired?

 

As the reality of his inability to interview plays out, the odds of him not getting a job loom large. Is he a better coach than any of the people that are looking to replace?

- Mike Smith? No, better record and more NFL experience.

- Marc Trestman? No, similar record, but more NFL experience and won championships in CFL.

- Rex Ryan? No, more NFL experience and actual playoff success

- Tony Sporano? Christ, the guy just beat Marrone head-to-head with a worse team and nothing to play for.

- Jim Harbaugh? Please.

 

Who actually hires this guy, and say to the fanbase "Look, we have Doug Marrone, he is so much better than who we just got rid of." Not one of these teams can say that, and it would be a PR nightmare that would affect the bottom line. Throw in the fact that he is not mentally prepared to interview. Throw in the fact that he can't assemble a staff in short order. Who actually hires this guy?

 

The sad part about it, his best job was with the Buffalo Bills. He will get $4M next year, but who knows after that. The "genius financial decision" may actually be the exact opposite for him in 2 years. If he stayed with the Bills, $8M. If he does not get another head coach job, musch less than $8M. Not to mention he has to uproot his young kids in their formative years to move once again, because he certainly can't stay in Buffalo and can't return to Syracuse. Can you imagine the difficulty for them? "Well, Dad got $4M for doing nothing. He will be hear to soothe me in person as I have to start my 3rd new school in my young life and make all new friends once again..."

 

Time will tell, but my money is on the Marrone beating his head against a wall as we speak. I would love to be a fly on the wall in the Sexton/Marrone conversations this week...

[Hapless Bills Fan]

That fight him and Russ got into in the beginning of the year. He yelled "Just go ahead and fire me!" or something along those lines. Has he been planning to leave since draft day, or am I looking too far into it?

If you believe some people, he was planning on leaving since the day he took this job

[4merper4mer]

That's a stretch. If the Bills went 6-10, I think he would've stayed (or been fired). Hell, had the Pegulas given him what he wanted, he definitely would've stayed.

 

In that context, I care very much about Marrone's motivation as he sacrificed potential long term stability for (his) short term goal, which was to get out of Dodge as soon as possible. The man could care less about developing the young talent in favor of a few extra wins.

 

How is this any different from the Watkins trade? Sacrificing the future for a short term goal of winning more games? I think it's clear that the FO and coaching staff were going "all in," on the season.

 

Fact of the matter is that sacrificing wins for possible development went out the window the second the team got sold. Whaley and Marrone no longer had the luxury of a grace period with the new owners. They needed results as soon as possible. It painted many of the personnel decisions along the way.

 

Let's go through a hypothetical. EJ plays worse than Kyle Orton the entire season. Bills go 7-9 or 6-10, staff fired. Good for the long term stability of the franchise?

 

Sure, maybe EJ was just waiting to blossom from the <200 YPG QB that he was in the beginning of the season, but I doubt it. At this juncture, the HC's job is to win the most games possible. Which meant playing Orton.

Mrs. Marrone,

 

As I have been pointing out for roughly a year our son Greggo Doug appears to have an overinflated opinion of himself and seems to have very little regard for anyone else unless they somehow make him look good. Personally, I think he is just masking his own feelings of inadequacy. Do you recall anything in his childhood that would have you agree or disagree? Although I agree the Orton/EJ decision for week 17 was pretty much meaningless, I think that even as him mom, you'd have to acknowledge that through the prism of his other actions both before and after, it is reasonable to question his motives.

 

I, like others, find it more likely that he'd use it as a post season indictment of Whaley in a power play, than with an eye toward anything else player development or team development wise. And it seems he immediately went into power play mode post season. Then he didn't get his way and stomped his feet on his way out of town. I know this must depress you as a parent but I would never give up on him. We are never too old to learn and this goes for Doug. His doppelgänger Greggo got into trouble after leaving the Bills. I'd suggest that you have Doug seek counseling BEFORE continuing with his career. It will help. In time, he may even be able to repair his career.

 

I hope I am not out of bounds in suggesting these things because family is truly more important than football or any job. I get that Doug peed on his "Bills Family" on his way out of town but really they are only "like family". The only true family is real family. Help him and open your mind to do so. I can say from your posts here that if Doug killed a litter of puppies you'd likely point out that they were only pooping on the floor anyway. That needs to change. I think tough love is your play here, but it is really up to you. Good luck.

[bigK14094]

The moment he inked his contract with the opt out after 2 seasons.

Yes...in his mind it was an available move. And, I think, to recruit Schwartz to our staff, he told him about it ....and Schwartz came to Buffalo thinking he might get to be the in house candidate for HC (which he is) and maybe HC (tbd)

[RealityCheck]

So Marrone wouldn't play EJ because he just cared about winning?

 

That is pretty much the argument and I think it says it all.

This is such a new and innovative mind-set that Marrone was just a little too ahead of his time. Buffalo isn't ready to accept a win at all costs mentality. 9-7 and everyone is upset. It sounds like everyone will absolutely love next season's record.

[Realist]

It was right in front of us when he played Orton (who he didn't want) instead of EJ (who he didn't want) because it gave HIM the best chance to win in that last no impact game against NE. Then he could say the Bills were 9-7 and HE beat The Patriots. Smart jerk.

Right there is your answer, he was only concerned with getting that winning record so he could tell any future employers "See what I did with the Bills? First winning record in 10 years!"

[FireChan]

I do agree with much of what you have said in this topic. That said the only thing I would like you to expound on is weather you agree with what I said 100 times in the shoutbox and that is this. Last game of the year I said if he plays EJ he is playing for the future but if he plays Orton he was playing for his resume. We see now I was right because the win almost got him a 50% record. Now we see how selfish he was as he took a clause that was meant to protect him from tyranny and used it to further his own agenda

Disagree. Winning that last game at all costs does more for this franchise than letting EJ get 20 or so snaps. Many of the vets on the Bills needed a winning season. Badly. Kyle Williams has been here since 2005; you're gonna deny him the chance to get his first winning season EVER?

 

The New England win was good for this franchise. It's good for the team's confidence, 9-7 shows these guys that they can play, etc.

Mrs. Marrone,

 

As I have been pointing out for roughly a year our son Greggo Doug appears to have an overinflated opinion of himself and seems to have very little regard for anyone else unless they somehow make him look good. Personally, I think he is just masking his own feelings of inadequacy. Do you recall anything in his childhood that would have you agree or disagree? Although I agree the Orton/EJ decision for week 17 was pretty much meaningless, I think that even as him mom, you'd have to acknowledge that through the prism of his other actions both before and after, it is reasonable to question his motives.

 

I, like others, find it more likely that he'd use it as a post season indictment of Whaley in a power play, than with an eye toward anything else player development or team development wise. And it seems he immediately went into power play mode post season. Then he didn't get his way and stomped his feet on his way out of town. I know this must depress you as a parent but I would never give up on him. We are never too old to learn and this goes for Doug. His doppelgänger Greggo got into trouble after leaving the Bills. I'd suggest that you have Doug seek counseling BEFORE continuing with his career. It will help. In time, he may even be able to repair his career.

 

I hope I am not out of bounds in suggesting these things because family is truly more important than football or any job. I get that Doug peed on his "Bills Family" on his way out of town but really they are only "like family". The only true family is real family. Help him and open your mind to do so. I can say from your posts here that if Doug killed a litter of puppies you'd likely point out that they were only pooping on the floor anyway. That needs to change. I think tough love is your play here, but it is really up to you. Good luck.

Questioning his motives to play the best players on the team is a dumb thing to do. He did his job, which is win as many games as possible. Looking at it through a prism means nothing.

 

If I work really hard to get a promotion, but I eventually leave this job to find a better one in my career path, does everyone say, "woah, maybe he only worked really hard to pad his resume?"

 

No. They don't. I was doing my job and I did it well enough to get some praise. Period.

Edited January 7, 2015 by FireChan

[Sisyphean Bills]

I actually don't think he planned it. I think he was annoyed he didn't get the respect he felt he deserved and decided to pull his power play. When it backfired, he had probably backed himself into a corner. (Something like Whaley or me) His only play at that point was to opt out while his stock was relatively high and hope to get another job

 

That said... F Him

 

Respect from whom? Wasn't Brandon blowing the guy's whistle with 2 games left to play?

If you believe some people, he was planning on leaving since the day he took this job

 

His message got stale.

Disagree. Winning that last game at all costs does more for this franchise than letting EJ get 20 or so snaps. Many of the vets on the Bills needed a winning season. Badly. Kyle Williams has been here since 2005; you're gonna deny him the chance to get his first winning season EVER?

 

The New England win was good for this franchise. It's good for the team's confidence, 9-7 shows these guys that they can play, etc.

Questioning his motives to play the best players on the team is a dumb thing to do. He did his job, which is win as many games as possible. Looking at it through a prism means nothing.

 

If I work really hard to get a promotion, but I eventually leave this job to find a better one in my career path, does everyone say, "woah, maybe he only worked really hard to pad his resume?"

 

No. They don't. I was doing my job and I did it well enough to get some praise. Period.

 

It is questionable logic. People really want a guy who plays inferior players to develop them like a farm team? So his resume will be one of failure and he will be afraid to leave? And no doubt if he had done just that they'd want him fired.

[4merper4mer]

Disagree. Winning that last game at all costs does more for this franchise than letting EJ get 20 or so snaps. Many of the vets on the Bills needed a winning season. Badly. Kyle Williams has been here since 2005; you're gonna deny him the chance to get his first winning season EVER?

 

The New England win was good for this franchise. It's good for the team's confidence, 9-7 shows these guys that they can play, etc.

Questioning his motives to play the best players on the team is a dumb thing to do. He did his job, which is win as many games as possible. Looking at it through a prism means nothing.

 

If I work really hard to get a promotion, but I eventually leave this job to find a better one in my career path, does everyone say, "woah, maybe he only worked really hard to pad his resume?"

 

No. They don't. I was doing my job and I did it well enough to get some praise. Period.

I understand that point of view, but everything is looked at through a prism whether we like it or not. With regard to Doug, you look at things through the prism of a Mom. I think the objective person would say that EJ/Orton was pretty meaningless wrt the NE game. Could EJ have not mustered the 10 points the Bills needed to win? To me, EJ/Orton there really shouldn't matter much either way as an individual decision.

 

As far as the rest of the season, if winning was so important then why the commitment to craziness on offense? Why did the offense depend so heavily on Brad Lamb? Why did Whaley's acquisitions Brown, Williams and Watkins all get fewer looks than one would expect? Why did your son yell at Brandon and Whaley in public? Was it to help the team win?

 

Why did he trash the organization on his way out of town? Why did he have the HR department text goodbye to his players? Winning was no longer a factor. Why not simply stop acting like a douche for two nanoseconds? All of these things and more fit the profile of me me me and none of them have anything to do with winning at all. Your prism seems more like a kaleidoscope.

[FireChan]

 

Respect from whom? Wasn't Brandon blowing the guy's whistle with 2 games left to play?

 

 

His message got stale.

 

 

It is questionable logic. People really want a guy who plays inferior players to develop them like a farm team? So his resume will be one of failure and he will be afraid to leave? And no doubt if he had done just that they'd want him fired.

Yep. This wasn't a 3 year plan where a modicum of improvement would've been okay as long as EJ looked a little better along the way.

[Saint Doug]

It was likely in the back of his head, but Orton retiring likely sealed the deal. Directly texting Pegula tips this off. We all know now he was dead set against EJ being his QB. With Orton gone, he would've been forced to play EJ next year.

 

This probably explains the preseason blow up between Whaley and Marrone. Marrone probably want to make Orton his starter and Whaley disagreed. Probably also explains why Marrone made the unilateral decision to bench EJ during the season.

[FireChan]

I understand that point of view, but everything is looked at through a prism whether we like it or not. With regard to Doug, you look at things through the prism of a Mom. I think the objective person would say that EJ/Orton was pretty meaningless wrt the NE game. Could EJ have not mustered the 10 points the Bills needed to win? To me, EJ/Orton there really shouldn't matter much either way as an individual decision.

 

As far as the rest of the season, if winning was so important then why the commitment to craziness on offense? Why did the offense depend so heavily on Brad Lamb? Why did Whaley's acquisitions Brown, Williams and Watkins all get fewer looks than one would expect? Why did your son yell at Brandon and Whaley in public? Was it to help the team win?

 

Why did he trash the organization on his way out of town? Why did he have the HR department text goodbye to his players? Winning was no longer a factor. Why not simply stop acting like a douche for two nanoseconds? All of these things and more fit the profile of me me me and none of them have anything to do with winning at all. Your prism seems more like a kaleidoscope.

You're confusing a commitment to winning with competency. No doubt Marrone thought his roster moves helped him win. I even agree with a few of them, but not all of them.

 

The rest is personal stuff that has no bearing on this discussion. Whether Marrone is a jerk or a saint is irrelevant.

It was likely in the back of his head, but Orton retiring likely sealed the deal. Directly texting Pegula tips this off. We all know now he was dead set against EJ being his QB. With Orton gone, he would've been forced to play EJ next year.

 

This probably explains the preseason blow up between Whaley and Marrone. Marrone probably want to make Orton his starter and Whaley disagreed. Probably also explains why Marrone made the unilateral decision to bench EJ during the season.

Preseason blowup was to sign Orton IIRC. He wasn't on the roster yet.

[C.Biscuit97]

You're confusing a commitment to winning with competency. No doubt Marrone thought his roster moves helped him win. I even agree with a few of them, but not all of them.

 

The rest is personal stuff that has no bearing on this discussion. Whether Marrone is a jerk or a saint is irrelevant.

 

Preseason blowup was to sign Orton IIRC. He wasn't on the roster yet.

Was it really a committment to win when he benched Urbik when he is clearly our best G?