Proteus Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 It's Whaley's fault the line regressed? Is he coaching now? You're getting the guy both ways -- while not answering Kelly's question. No he deserves no blame whatsoever.
Deranged Rhino Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 A complete fantasy adventure... That is OUTSTANDING! :lol:
Agent 91 Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 EJ aside, why do you say he deserves to keep his job? His FA pickups are marginal to horrible, his draft pics are bad, and the trade for Watkins (although sammy will be good) hurts the franchise. You should never trade a future first for a WR, one WR isn't going to get your franchise where it wants to go...ask Atlanta. It just seems to be he is making bad mistake after bad mistake. I just dont see it that way. I dont think EJ is a bust. We have seen 4 qbs regress under this regime. We brought in a qb who they saw potential in but did not get the people you help him grow correctly. If we get someone like bevell or equal expertise and EJ still isn't serviceable then we can affix the bust title. Jury as you said is still out on that one. And the draft was a great move in TRADING DOWN getting the qb you wanted then picking up both WOODS and Kiko. 2 out of 3 immediate producers isnt bad. Marrone I have to believe was Russ Brandon and his regionalization goal. He was trying to widen the market stretching more towards central and eastern ny. I dont feel it to be necessary but Brandon preached it over and over again so I have to believe that played heavily into the equation. The Watkins trade was a ballsy trade in the fact that Inc again... the wanted a guy and did anything necessary to get him. How many guys are we off from having a good run in the playoffs. A qb... and line. We didnt finish bad enough to get anything but another EJ. And we need 2 guards. We all know historically. A guard in the first rd is a helluva reach. So you take one in the second rd... which we still have a pick in. Who is a real first rd guard prospect? Arie kuandijo? Who else will we miss? I dont see not having a first rd pick as devastating except for the fact we have no real reason to watch day one of the draft. And free agency/draft. Whaley has brought in people that we obscure. And contrary to the point. Has had some good free agent moves. Chris Williams the obvious bust. But Spikes Hughes Wynn Graham Dixon Hogan Gray trading a 6th for Mike Williams. And the bryce brown trade will make sense if spiller is not back. Preston Brown and Henderson were good picks. I believe Cockrell is gonna be a contributor. Marcus Thigpen was a great pick up thus far. I dont think people are seeing these picks and just see the Kuandijo pick and also that EJ was a reach that has not paid off yet. Just give him time. Let's let HIM pick HIS guy... we have all seen the reports that Marrone may or may not have been his choice... and lets give him 1 more year to complete his vision.
Proteus Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 That is OUTSTANDING! :lol: All this does is prove that you have absolutely no argument and no defense of your positions other than to attack the poster you are debating with. Well done, you just proved that you wrong.
Deranged Rhino Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 No he deserves no blame whatsoever. Who's responsibility is it to progress players, the head coach who made the OL his pet project or the GM? Maybe the issue is you think a GM is also in some way a coach. He's not. Whaley isn't responsible for developing players, he's responsible for finding players for the coach to develop. Certainly Whaley bears responsibility for the Chris Williams signing (which I hated at the time and still do) and for the CK pick, but you're blaming him for the line REGRESSING which is NOT his job -- and that's why I laughed, because it's a silly thing to try to pin on any GM. All this does is prove that you have absolutely no argument and no defense of your positions other than to attack the poster you are debating with. Well done, you just proved that you wrong. Well, it also proves you have absolutely no sense of humor.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) All this does is prove that you have absolutely no argument and no defense of your positions other than to attack the poster you are debating with. Well done, you just proved that you wrong. Or, he thought a joke was funny and it had nothing to do with his or your or my argument, but you again take Evil Kneival sized leaps to conclusions like laughing at a joke as "proof" he has absolutely no argument and no defense of his positions, Edited January 4, 2015 by Kelly the Dog
Proteus Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Who's responsibility is it to progress players, the head coach who made the OL his pet project or the GM? Maybe the issue is you think a GM is also in some way a coach. He's not. Whaley isn't responsible for developing players, he's responsible for finding players for the coach to develop. Certainly Whaley bears responsibility for the Chris Williams signing (which I hated at the time and still do) and for the CK pick, but you're blaming him for the line REGRESSING which is NOT his job -- and that's why I laughed, because it's a silly thing to try to pin on any GM. Well, it also proves you have absolutely no sense of humor. Year to year regression on the offensive line has to do with both personnel and coaching. Marrone wasn't a good coach and deserves criticism for that. Whaley put below average lineman on the team for Marrone to coach. He deserves criticism for that. That is all I have been saying all along. But you are so quick to jump on any poster who shows and perceived criticism towards Whaley that you really didn't notice I guess. So basically you attacked my posts to try and discredit me because you didn't like what I said about Whaley, I didn't back down, and now you agree with me. Your bullying didn't work.
John from Riverside Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Please consider taking your own advice before posting in the future. It'd help us all out. IKR
Proteus Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Or, he thought a joke was funny and it had nothing to do with his or your or my argument, but you again take Evil Kneival sized leaps to conclusions like laughing at a joke as "proof" he has absolutely no argument and no defense of his positions, Well if he did anything during this thread to actually defend his position instead of attacking me I may think differently. Please tell me what conclusions I am leaping to though. The one where the GM is responsible for the personnel he puts on the field? Is that the one you are talking about?
Deranged Rhino Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Who's responsibility is it to progress players, the head coach who made the OL his pet project or the GM? Maybe the issue is you think a GM is also in some way a coach. He's not. Whaley isn't responsible for developing players, he's responsible for finding players for the coach to develop. Certainly Whaley bears responsibility for the Chris Williams signing (which I hated at the time and still do) and for the CK pick, but you're blaming him for the line REGRESSING which is NOT his job -- and that's why I laughed, because it's a silly thing to try to pin on any GM. Well, it also proves you have absolutely no sense of humor. Year to year regression on the offensive line has to do with both personnel and coaching. Marrone wasn't a good coach and deserves criticism for that. Whaley put below average lineman on the team for Marrone to coach. He deserves criticism for that. That is all I have been saying all along. But you are so quick to jump on any poster who shows and perceived criticism towards Whaley that you really didn't notice I guess. So basically you attacked my posts to try and discredit me because you didn't like what I said about Whaley, I didn't back down, and now you agree with me. Your bullying didn't work. So you are drunk! :lol:
Proteus Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 So you are drunk! :lol: Is that what you fall back on when proven wrong?
Deranged Rhino Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Is that what you fall back on when proven wrong? Serious question... do you think black helicopters are following you day in and day out as well? Or is it just me that you think is out to get you?
Kelly the Dog Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Please tell me what conclusions I am leaping to though. The one where the GM is responsible for the personnel he puts on the field? Is that the one you are talking about? I already mentioned two blatant ones that you have already read, including in the post you just responded to. There were more.
Proteus Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 I already mentioned two blatant ones that you have already read, including in the post you just responded to. There were more. Sorry bud but when someone continually attacks the poster and provides no alternative position I think concluding that he has no real defense for his position is not a stretch.
Deranged Rhino Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Sorry bud but when someone continually attacks the poster and provides no alternative position I think concluding that he has no real defense for his position is not a stretch. Except I did provide my counters -- you just are too drunk to remember them.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Sorry bud but when someone continually attacks the poster and provides no alternative position I think concluding that he has no real defense for his position is not a stretch. You mean like when someone asks you who else was available for quarterback when you berate them for not getting a quarterback and your response is that it's silly and you're not going to answer that?
Agent 91 Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 How can you say that EJ was Whaley's pick but Kiko was Nix's pick? Nix was still in charge and transitioning to Whaley so you're saying that Whaley was in charge of his first pick but not his second pick? I know you don't like EJ, but even that fact aside, you can't without inside knowledge say that one is to blame and one is to credit on the two separate picks when they were both in the room doing the job. If there is outright proof of what you are saying then sorry but you're pretty much playing both sides to favor your argument. Nix said he wasnt leaving until a qb was here... so if anything the draft after rd 1 was mostly Whaley. Nix only priority was getting a qb so Alonso and all the rest were Whaley in my opinion. Thus making him look much better. If we really want to split hairs here
Deranged Rhino Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 You mean like when someone asks you who else was available for quarterback when you berate them for not getting a quarterback and your response is that it's silly and you're not going to answer that? :lol:
The Wiz Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) Nix said he wasnt leaving until a qb was here... so if anything the draft after rd 1 was mostly Whaley. Nix only priority was getting a qb so Alonso and all the rest were Whaley in my opinion. Thus making him look much better. If we really want to split hairs here I'm not trying to split hairs either, I'm just questioning how the QB pick is on Whaley but the Kiko pick was Nix's. I have no problem given Whaley credit/blame for the full draft or giving both of them credit/blame but I don't believe it was Nix's in full at all and no individual pick was "his guy". The Nix thing is something I always think of also knowing he wasn't leaving until he drafted a QB. Edited January 4, 2015 by The Wiz
Proteus Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Serious question... do you think black helicopters are following you day in and day out as well? Or is it just me that you think is out to get you? I criticized Whaley for the regression of the offensive line. I think it was pretty obvious I was talking about the regression of personnel from year to year. You decided that I was saying Whaley was responsible for individual regression of the offensive lineman due to coaching. So you tried to discredit me on that when it was obvious that is what I was not talking about. You can say whatever you want I really don't care. Paint me as paranoid or not knowing my ass from my head. What really happened is I made a very legitimate criticism of Whaley and you decided to attack me for it.
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