Kelly the Dog Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 How do you know this? From a few different little birdies, some insiders on this board, and reports that backed it up.
reddogblitz Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 From a few different little birdies, some insiders on this board, and reports that backed it up. Can you please share those reports?
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Caretakers do not equal "franchise" QBs. They weren't going anywhere with Fitz, Jackson, or Kolb--they needed a guy with franchise potential. Every team needs one, and if you don't have one, getting one should be a priority. How they managed the other aspects of the position group is an entirely different matter IMO. No one equates a caretaker QB with a franchise QB, and no one suggested the Bills shouldn't get a franchise QB. The Bills painted themselves into a corner all by themselves and managed their resources at the most important position in their product like it was a beauty pageant run by a public opinion poll. To emphasize my point, I'll submit that as soon as the Bills finally landed a caretaker QB (see Kyle Orton) and he had some basic grasp of the offense, Coach Marrone named him the starter over the possible future franchise but currently just a project QB and never looked back. This is a thoughtful and interesting post. Fitz' public word on the situation is that the Bills made him an offer, he countered, and there it sat - no real attempt to negotiate. It's clear being potentially cast as a backup wasn't a deal-breaker for Fitz or he wouldn't have gone to the Titans. It's clear that Nix/Gailey/Brandon/whoever painted themselves into a corner. Most teams, even teams with proven starters, will draft developmental QB. The Pats, with Brady firmly enscounced, used a 4th on Mallet in 2011 and a 2nd on Garopollo last year. Washington drafted RGIII and Foles the same year. GB has drafted 4 QB since they drafted Rodgers, going as high as the 2nd round. Seattle opened the piggy bank to acquire Flynn from Green Bay when they had servicable Tarvaris Jackson who had played like a trump with a torn pec for them, then drafted Wilson when he fell to the 4th. The point is, good teams will spend a pick on a QB if there is a value player available. With Fitzpatrick as the best option at QB, the Bills risked a 7th round pick on Levi Brown and that's it until EJ Manual, despite the fact that some well-regarded QB prospects fell a bit and were available when they drafted in the 3rd or 4th round a couple of those years. We act as though bringing a developmental prospect into the building is a terrible risk likely to cause team Staph infections contagious hangnails and cardiac arrhythmias. I have no quarrel with the Bills drafting Manual. I even have no quarrel with the Bills drafting Watkins - if they honestly thought he was The Truth, go for him. I do think the Bills scouting department needs overhaul, but it does seem clear that the OLmen they looked at were cast in a specific physical mold desired by Marrone - big hulking tackle-type guards. It seems pretty clear though, that the Bills need a change in philosphy where drafting a QB is concerned. They need to be on the watch, every year, for a high-value QB who drops a bit. Stop acting like a QB is Highlander "There can be only One" in the building at the same time. They need to do this even if Manuel, or their next draftee, develops into Magical Franchilse Man. I am also concerned that shared responsibility = lack of accountability. Whaley can say "everyone in the room signed off on Manuel" or "everyone was in favor of drafting Watkins" and it blurrs the lines of accountability for just what was given up and just what was the overarching QB plan. I personally incline that Brandon is still mixing it in on some football decisions, especially the Draft, and that his football evaluations are heavily influenced by his marketing background "whoo hoo, we'll make an attention grabbing trade that only a team one player away from a championship would make, that'll stir up interest and sell tickets! Yeah!" I never thought that until I watched the 2014 Draft Day video linked in another thread and saw how giddy Brandon was after the trade-up. In that light, the trade-up appears as one in a long line of decisions with questionable added football value and strong PR value (signing TO, bringing in Vince Young, etc). I hope the Pegulas clean FO house. I think Whaley has promise as a young GM, but he's definitely been here for some of the problems so if the Pegulas decide he has to go because they can't sort out to what degree he was part of them, I'm chill with that too. I don't trust Brandon an inch. Like Marv Levy said, "If you listen to the fans, you'll end up sitting with them." As far as the "shared responsibility", I commented on this earlier, but it is a system for establishing plausible deniability. It allows people to build and protect little fiefdoms. Why is EJM's failure (so far) 100% on Nix? Whaley helped set the draft board. Brandon signed off on it. Nix made the pick. The scouting department did the due diligence. Marrone and Hackett bought in and apparently thought Hackett could bring him along single-handedly the first year. It's a fluster duck result based on a whole series of dominoes toppling the wrong way over multiple years as you astutely point out. It's an organizational strategic failure. And those sorts of strategic blind spots are how a team defies the odds and goes 15 straight years without a playoff berth.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Can you please share those reports? I already did. I just can't say who the little birdies were. They are recognizable names though. There were people on here with a lot of respect that said similar things, like Simon, who knows these kinds of things.
reddogblitz Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 I already did. I just can't say who the little birdies were. They are recognizable names though. There were people on here with a lot of respect that said similar things, like Simon, who knows these kinds of things. Can you please provide the link to the thread where you said all this before? I'm just looking for the "reports" you mentioned. Surely they are available somewhere I would think.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Can you please provide the link to the thread where you said all this before? I'm just looking for the "reports" you mentioned. Surely they are available somewhere I would think. The reports, if it's what I think you're asking for, were from two years ago. That Whisenhunt was the favorite for the job, and the Bills were negotiating with him on contracts. I don't have time to google it but I suspect you will find some. Over the last few months I have mentioned that I heard Marrone was not Whaley's first choice. I called or texted a few people and they said that was their understanding. It fits in with what I read and heard before. It's tough to know for sure. Reporters get stuff from great sources but even they have to take it with a grain of salt because everyone to some degree has an agenda. You can choose to believe it or not. I have a lot of strong opinions on here as most know, and I'm not always right. But I am not going to lie about something someone told me.
Lurker Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) Can you please provide the link to the thread where you said all this before? I'm just looking for the "reports" you mentioned. Surely they are available somewhere I would think. http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2013/1/2/3827014/ken-whisenhunt-buffalo-bills-rumors-interest-high http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-2/Buffalo-Bills-interview-Ken-Whisenhunt/db1561ca-0e45-4a9e-9dc6-4804395294e8 And this gem... http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/01/report-russ-brandon-fond-of-ken-whisenhunt/ Edited January 5, 2015 by Lurker
BmarvB Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Yea his draft picks are horrible. I see you convienantly ignore players thag don't fit your agenda. Let's see: Kiko Alonso Preston Brown Jerry Hughes Boobie Dixon Sentreal Henderson Sammy Watkins Robert Woods All players Doug Whaley brought here. And he's added even more loads more of depth. But I'm not going to waste my time. I'm not even sure why I'm responding to this thread. Yeah, why did you respond with the REAL facts?
reddogblitz Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2013/1/2/3827014/ken-whisenhunt-buffalo-bills-rumors-interest-high http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-2/Buffalo-Bills-interview-Ken-Whisenhunt/db1561ca-0e45-4a9e-9dc6-4804395294e8 And this gem... http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/01/report-russ-brandon-fond-of-ken-whisenhunt/ Thanks. However, none of them say Whaley wanted Whisenhuntand Buddy and Russ wanted Marrone. The first link doesn't even mention Whaley. The second says Whaley and Whisenhuntworked together. The last one just says they're interviewing him and Russ likes him. I was told there were "reports" that say Whaley wanted Whisenhunt while Marrone was Russ and Buddy's pick. Oh and my friend knows the cab driver that drove Whisenhunt to the airport and she said Whisenhunt told her Buddy liked him but the other two yahoos did not. Still waiting ... Edited January 5, 2015 by reddogblitz
Lurker Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Still waiting ... Google's your friend...try it sometime.
reddogblitz Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Google's your friend...try it sometime. Why do I have to look up stuff to prove your (or whoever it was) point?
billsfan89 Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 EJ aside, why do you say he deserves to keep his job? His FA pickups are marginal to horrible, his draft pics are bad, and the trade for Watkins (although sammy will be good) hurts the franchise. You should never trade a future first for a WR, one WR isn't going to get your franchise where it wants to go...ask Atlanta. It just seems to be he is making bad mistake after bad mistake. Whaley made really good free agent decisions on the defensive side of the ball. Spikes and Graham along with letting Byrd go were all really good decisions. Throw in the Hughes trade and Whaley has made a lot of good defensive decisions. Maybe because Petttine and Schwartz were better at targeting players that work in their systems, while Marrone and Hackket weren't.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 I was told there were "reports" that say Whaley wanted Whisenhunt while Marrone was Russ and Buddy's pick. I understand your point now. When I said "From a few different little birdies, some insiders on this board, and reports that backed it up" I meant personal contacts that exchanged texts or call with me (little birdies), some insiders on this board (posters that said they heard from their contacts the same things) and reports that backed that up (similar to what Lurker posted, that the Bills and Whaley were very interested in Whisenhunt). I even think there were rumors from LaContorta that they were deep in negotiations. Those were the reports I was referring to that backed it up. I didn't mean to imply there were articles from reputable sources that say Whaley wanted this guy and Marrone wanted that guy. I don't think you would ever see those. Whaley isn't the type.
Lurker Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Why do I have to look up stuff to prove your (or whoever it was) point? Uh...maybe to learn something. Maybe you will, maybe you won't. But it's better than sitting on an opinion... http://biblehub.com/proverbs/18-2.htm
reddogblitz Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Uh...maybe to learn something. Maybe you will, maybe you won't. But it's better than sitting on an opinion... http://biblehub.com/proverbs/18-2.htm There are "reports" that say Nix wanted Whisenhunt, Russ wanted Marrone, and Whaley wanted Lovie. Go out on Google and find them. Unless you just want to sit on your opinion that is.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Why do I have to look up stuff to prove your (or whoever it was) point? Because you're questioning it and trying to disprove it?
reddogblitz Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 There are "reports" that say Nix wanted Whisenhunt, Russ wanted Marrone, and Whaley wanted Lovie. Go out on Google and find them. Unless you just want to sit on your opinion that is. Kelly, you are the one that said "From a few different little birdies, some insiders on this board, and reports that backed it up." Since you obviously can't point to any "reports that backed it up" I'm calling BS on the whole thing. I don't have time to find "reports" that back up your opinion and obviously you can't find any either. IMHO Whaley/Nix/Brandon were the search committee. They are all responsible equally unless I read from a reliable source otherwise.
Lurker Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) I don't have time to find "reports" that back up your opinion and obviously you can't find any either. Always a lame excuse for those who spend significant time on TSW... http://www.capitalbay.com/football/291089-report-bills-talk-to-ex-cards-coach-whisenhunt.html http://www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?aid=/20130101/sports/130109942/1126 http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2013/1/4/3835792/buffalo-bills-coaching-candidates-ken-whisenhunt-background Edited January 5, 2015 by Lurker
Reed83HOF Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Damn guys... It was 2 years ago; Wisenhut is in Tennessee, Marrone was hired and is now a JAG. Shouldn't be discussing something else. This has almost nothing to do with Whaley as GM or the current Bills situation...
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