Punch Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Punch, just plain wrong. Head coach = total product on the field = 9-7 record. Cherry picking this player or that player is not a viable argument to this. I'll add this, the head coach is also responsible for the overall team attitude. For the first time in a decade the team believed they were winners and played that way. Credit Marrone! He actually DID change the culture in a positive direction. Why would you bother to make the point that Marrone was responsible for player personnel if the specific players acquired during his tenure are irrelevant to the team's success? You're moving the goalposts and nothing more. Ordinarily, when someone is wrong and cannot articulate further they will repeat the same point over and over. 9-7!
Mojo44 Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Coach Tuesday, can you elaborate with an intelligent answer? Be specific. Shoot down my point if you can. Love to hear it. I'm serious. Tell me how I'm wrong that he is seen as a top HC candidate. Come on, now. Something truly meaty this time. Punch, you missed again. I repeat it because you have not made a direct response to my basic point. The HC is responsible, ultimately, for the product on the field period. If you must use ad hominen attacks let me go to your level. I'm repeating because clearly you cannot even comprehend what I'm saying. I can try to dumb it down some more so you have at least a 50-50 chance of at least getting my point but I'm not very optimistic.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Coach Tuesday, can you elaborate with an intelligent answer? Be specific. Shoot down my point if you can. Love to hear it. I'm serious. Tell me how I'm wrong that he is seen as a top HC candidate. Come on, now. Something truly meaty this time. Punch, you missed again. I repeat it because you have not made a direct response to my basic point. The HC is responsible, ultimately, for the product on the field period. If you must use ad hominen attacks let me go to your level. I'm repeating because clearly you cannot even comprehend what I'm saying. I can try to dumb it down some more so you have at least a 50-50 chance of at least getting my point but I'm not very optimistic. So he's completely responsible for his losing record, and he's completely responsible for his .500 record in college. And this is the biggest mistake in franchise history?
Mojo44 Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Kelly, I appreciate your posts but your clueless about what he did at Syracuse. I live here. Any true Cuse fan knows that rather amazing job he did in four years to literally resurrect a dead D1 program to relevancy before he left for the Bills. The record is actually quite impressive during the time he was there. These are the facts. Besides, if you really claim to know a lot about him you would know he has a long NFL coaching pedigree starting ten years ago. OK, I'm asking this a lot, what is your take as why he is so esteemed a a HC candidate in the knowledgable football world (please don't even try to debate this, it's an actuarial fact) but so reviled in WNY. It's a mass hysteria to me. A shared group delusion completely ignoring the facts (9-7 in 2 years with THIS franchise). In my field of work I have seen this before but never in the sporting world. I would really love to hear how you understand this.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Kelly, I appreciate your posts but your clueless about what he did at Syracuse. I live here. Any true Cuse fan knows that rather amazing job he did in four years to literally resurrect a dead D1 program to relevancy before he left for the Bills. The record is actually quite impressive during the time he was there. These are the facts. Besides, if you really claim to know a lot about him you would know he has a long NFL coaching pedigree starting ten years ago. OK, I'm asking this a lot, what is your take as why he is so esteemed a a HC candidate in the knowledgable football world (please don't even try to debate this, it's an actuarial fact) but so reviled in WNY. It's a mass hysteria to me. A shared group delusion completely ignoring the facts (9-7 in 2 years with THIS franchise). In my field of work I have seen this before but never in the sporting world. I would really love to hear how you understand this. I don't need to know a thing about what he did at Syracuse because I used your own ridiculous criterion: A HC is totally responsible for everything that happens on his team. So he is totally responsible for the 25-25 record, which is not good. I didn't use context or reason or reflection in my post. I used yours.
Coach Tuesday Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Kelly, I appreciate your posts but your clueless about what he did at Syracuse. I live here. Any true Cuse fan knows that rather amazing job he did in four years to literally resurrect a dead D1 program to relevancy before he left for the Bills. The record is actually quite impressive during the time he was there. These are the facts. Besides, if you really claim to know a lot about him you would know he has a long NFL coaching pedigree starting ten years ago. OK, I'm asking this a lot, what is your take as why he is so esteemed a a HC candidate in the knowledgable football world (please don't even try to debate this, it's an actuarial fact) but so reviled in WNY. It's a mass hysteria to me. A shared group delusion completely ignoring the facts (9-7 in 2 years with THIS franchise). In my field of work I have seen this before but never in the sporting world. I would really love to hear how you understand this. Whoa whoa whoa wait a minute, you live in Syracuse, you say? Why didn't you just tell us that to begin with. Now that I understand that you live closer to the wellspring of truth, I will stop questioning your "actuarial facts that aren't worth debating."
thebandit27 Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 I noticed that there was no response to my post.
Mojo44 Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Wrong again Kelly. His last 2 years were winning records with 2 bowl wins. The criterion is met. Yeah, I'm in Syracuse. So what. I'm a Bills fan. That's all you need to know Tuesday. Brilliant riposte! I'm in awe of you. Hey bandit. With a crap O line and a cowardly sloth as the best option Marrone actually did a remarkable job with the offense. You tell me, seriously, what could he have done better with this?
3rdand12 Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 I love the thrust and parry afforded here. Please carry on !
Mojo44 Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 3rd and 12. Do you have a take on this. Seriously love to hear it. Clearly fresh blood is needed. Even if you disagree with me.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Wrong again Kelly. His last 2 years were winning records with 2 bowl wins. The criterion is met. Yeah, I'm in Syracuse. So what. I'm a Bills fan. That's all you need to know Tuesday. Brilliant riposte! I'm in awe of you. Hey bandit. With a crap O line and a cowardly sloth as the best option Marrone actually did a remarkable job with the offense. You tell me, seriously, what could he have done better with this? Did he have a career winning record at Syracuse or do you only count winning records when you say "By definition the HC is responsible for the entire product on the field..and the won-loss record. To state this publicly would be the same as calling a pressed to state that his hair is actually brown. This is still captain obvious stuff. Come on already."
Mojo44 Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Kelly, wrong again. My contention is not all time W-L record and this should be quite obvious. From dead in the water to a winner. That's what he did, period. In TWO YEARS with the Bills from 6-10 to 9-7 and...now this is crucial...trending upwards. No one has done this in TEN YEARS with the Bills. Sounds like you may be losing your grip some with this W-L issue. Nope, criterion absolutely 100% met. Maybe you should cut your losses and back away from the table.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) Kelly, wrong again. My contention is not all time W-L record and this should be quite obvious. From dead in the water to a winner. That's what he did, period. In TWO YEARS with the Bills from 6-10 to 9-7 and...now this is crucial...trending upwards. No one has done this in TEN YEARS with the Bills. Sounds like you may be losing your grip some with this W-L issue. Nope, criterion absolutely 100% met. Maybe you should cut your losses and back away from the table. Explain to me how the good years count, and the bad years don't, when everything the team does the head coach is responsible for? I'm really curious about that one. Is it, perhaps, that you're being disingenuous or clinically insane? Is it, perhaps, that both good and bad counts equally? Is it, perhaps, that there are a lot of other factors at play, like where a team started and where they finished counts? I'm trying to figure this out. Edited January 4, 2015 by Kelly the Dog
bills_fan_in_raleigh Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 I just love how threads degenerate into something totally different. Oh well what do I expect
3rdand12 Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 3rd and 12. Do you have a take on this. Seriously love to hear it. Clearly fresh blood is needed. Even if you disagree with me. Nope this sh*t is above me. But i do enjoy the dialogues!
dave mcbride Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 I don't need to know a thing about what he did at Syracuse because I used your own ridiculous criterion: A HC is totally responsible for everything that happens on his team. So he is totally responsible for the 25-25 record, which is not good. I didn't use context or reason or reflection in my post. I used yours. Dog, I usually support you, but this is sophistry. Do you have any idea what he inherited at Syracuse? Please don't respond by saying "but ... his criterion!" If you have a serious, informed take on his Syracuse years, I'd love to hear it. That program was a DISASTER prior to his arrival.
3rdand12 Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 I just love how threads degenerate into something totally different. Oh well what do I expect I find this stuff interesting personally. but what do i know ; )
Coach Tuesday Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) Dog, I usually support you, but this is sophistry. Do you have any idea what he inherited at Syracuse? Please don't respond by saying "but ... his criterion!" If you have a serious, informed take on his Syracuse years, I'd love to hear it. That program was a DISASTER prior to his arrival. Ok so he's proven he can take two bad programs and bring them up to mediocre. Nothing he has shown me suggests he can achieve greatness. The best mofo has to argue is that the "trend" is upwards. Sorry but that's not enough. And the fact that he bailed both times after getting to mediocre tells me he know he's a fraud and is afraid to bet on himself. Edited January 5, 2015 by Coach Tuesday
thebandit27 Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Hey bandit. With a crap O line and a cowardly sloth as the best option Marrone actually did a remarkable job with the offense. You tell me, seriously, what could he have done better with this? How about find a way to get the call into the hands of his best player and #4 overall pick. Oh and by the way, if he has a "crap OL" (he didn't, they were below average) and a "coward" at QB, then didn't he "assemble" that group himself just like he "assembled" the defense? And no, scoring 1 or fewer TDs in 7 of 16 games isn't remarkable in any way, shape, or form. It's horrible. Period.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Dog, I usually support you, but this is sophistry. Do you have any idea what he inherited at Syracuse? Please don't respond by saying "but ... his criterion!" If you have a serious, informed take on his Syracuse years, I'd love to hear it. That program was a DISASTER prior to his arrival. I think he did great at Syracuse. I think he took a dead program and made it into a legitimate one in four years, no small feat. I also think, from what I have been learning, that he did similar things in Syracuse that he did here and left a lot of people pissed off at him in his wake. I also think that from the point he was an OL coach for the Jets, to an OC in title only at NO, to HC at Syracuse, to HC of the Bills, he went from tough guy but likeable coach, to collaborator, to I'm the man, to St. Doug, to full of himself power hungry ****, which is a progression that often happens in all kinds of businesses with success. I also know that the only reason I said what you misnamed as "sophistry" was because of Mojo's completely ridiculous series of comments that began with the coach is totally responsible for everything and win lost records (which is ridiculous) to the coach is totally responsible for everything when they win (which is even more ridiculous).
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