Gugny Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 I know this issue gets shut down every time it's brought up. However ... the Bills have a new owner now. I think this is a relevant discussion (civil discussion) that should take place. As much as domestic violence has been at the forefront of so much of the NFL news this season, I can't believe it hasn't come up. This is not a Hall of Fame discussion; it's a Wall of Fame discussion. I personally find it disgusting that his name is still on the Wall of Fame. I think it is disrespectful. I think it is irresponsible. I think it is disgraceful. This is solely about the fact that he was found liable for the deaths of two innocent people; nothing to do with him being in prison now, or committing the crimes that landed him there. He's a murderer and his name shouldn't be on that wall. I hope the Pegulas do what Ralph Wilson failed to do.
uticaclub Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 He's on there for what he did on the field and he was found not guilty of murder. No argument
The Frankish Reich Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) This will get you shouted down, but I actually think it's the right thing to do. We'll hear arguments to the contrary, all of which are fair, but none of which convince me: 1. His deplorable actions took place long after his Bills career ended. True, but the Wall of Fame is a continuing honor. It's not like taking back an MVP trophy he earned at the time. 2. We can't just start pulling names down from the Wall of Fame for every kind of crime or indiscretion. True, but there's really no comparison between, say, a former player who picks up a DUI, or even a former player who engages in financial fraud or admitted PED use, etc. We have to draw the line somewhere. I say OJ shows us where. 3. What, are we going to take him out of the HOF too? That's the NFL's decision, but again, it's different. Example: I say put Pete Rose in the baseball HOF, but include some background with his plaque explaining how he sadly ended his career by gambling on baseball and besmirching the integrity of the game. The HOF allows for such context because it's an exhibit/museum. The Wall of Fame doesn't, and every time they try to collectively honor the Wall of Famers they will face the embarrassing problem of how to deal with OJ's name up there. So take it down. Not in some big ceremony or show of self righteousness. Just quietly. Edited January 4, 2015 by The Frankish Reich
jr1 Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 He belongs on the wall for his work in The Naked Gun
The Frankish Reich Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 He's on there for what he did on the field and he was found not guilty of murder. No argument I see this was your 666th post. Just sayin'
uticaclub Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 I see this was your 666th post. Just sayin' Ouch
The Frankish Reich Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Ouch Yeah, I'm gonna have to watch that. I hope my 420th wasn't about marijuana or something.
LA Grant Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Its embarrassing to have his name still up there. It doesn't matter what he accomplished when he played. He could have multiple MVPs and be solely responsible for a Super Bowl win and I'd still say pull it down. It makes the team/organization/community look like they're passively defending OJ as a person because he was a star athlete. We have plenty of other star athletes to celebrate that aren't connected to murder. For a Wall of "Fame", OJ Simpson is way more famous for being a criminal than a Buffalo Bill. In my opinion, removing his name is way, way, way overdue. Time to let it go. Take it down.
reddogblitz Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Pete Rose violated one of baseball's most serious and most talked about rules to players and managers. He should never ever ever ever be put into Cooperstown.
Gugny Posted January 4, 2015 Author Posted January 4, 2015 It makes the team/organization/community look like they're passively defending OJ as a person because he was a star athlete. Such a great point. This has historically happened with "star athletes," beginning in high school level, across the country. It's a societal flaw.
The Frankish Reich Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Its embarrassing to have his name still up there. It doesn't matter what he accomplished when he played. He could have multiple MVPs and be solely responsible for a Super Bowl win and I'd still say pull it down. It makes the team/organization/community look like they're passively defending OJ as a person because he was a star athlete. We have plenty of other star athletes to celebrate that aren't connected to murder. For a Wall of "Fame", OJ Simpson is way more famous for being a criminal than a Buffalo Bill. In my opinion, removing his name is way, way, way overdue. Time to let it go. Take it down. This is sadly true. My wife had no idea who he played for -- she just knew him as a guy in commercials and bit roles in movies. And since 1993, as a (likely) killer.
Gugny Posted January 4, 2015 Author Posted January 4, 2015 Pete Rose violated one of baseball's most serious and most talked about rules to players and managers. He should never ever ever ever be put into Cooperstown. Wrong sport. Totally irrelevant (because it's baseball and you're comparing it to a league-level hall of fame) and betting does not equal a double murder.
uticaclub Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 He was found not guilty. He went to trial and was found not guilty. Whether you think he did it or not, you can't punish people for being accused of crimes especially when they are found not guilty.
FireChan Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Wrong sport. Totally irrelevant (because it's baseball and you're comparing it to a league-level hall of fame) and betting does not equal a double murder. Was Pete ever found guilty? It was an alleged double murder.
LA Grant Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Quietly taking it down during this offseason would be the best move. Obviously you don't make a big deal about it (please sit down, Brandon), but it would inevitably get noticed and reported on. And then the story becomes a very positive one: new owner Terry Pegula is doing good things in Buffalo, it's a new day, and the new-era Bills can lead the way of a football-obsessed community done right.
White Linen Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 It's a tough position for the Bills. His name was put up there prior to everything that transpired. He wasn't convicted so what would the Bills do "well we know he did it so we're taking his name down". I think the organization is as embarrassed by his name being up there as we are. I think the best thing to do is just leave him off any recognition of past players in the new stadium and they can come up with a PC reason to not include him.
LA Grant Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 He was found not guilty. He went to trial and was found not guilty. Whether you think he did it or not, you can't punish people for being accused of crimes especially when they are found not guilty. The Wall of Fame is not legal status. Nobody's taking away any of his rights. But we can stop celebrating a guy better known for murder than for athletic accomplishments from 30-40 years ago.
The Frankish Reich Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 It's a tough position for the Bills. His name was put up there prior to everything that transpired. He wasn't convicted so what would the Bills do "well we know he did it so we're taking his name down". I think the organization is as embarrassed by his name being up there as we are. I think the best thing to do is just leave him off any recognition of past players in the new stadium and they can come up with a PC reason to not include him. Well, the fact that he's in prison for a different violent offense makes it easy. As does the fact that he was found responsible in a civil trial for the deaths of two persons. I don't want to be all sanctimonious about this, but I think if in your place of business -- whatever it might be -- one of the former CEOs who guided the company through a profitable period was found responsible for killing two people and is currently serving a long sentence for robbery, you wouldn't think twice about renaming the "OJ Simpson Conference Room."
reddogblitz Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Wrong sport. Totally irrelevant (because it's baseball and you're comparing it to a league-level hall of fame) and betting does not equal a double murder. The Frankish Reich brought it up first, so I responded. Talk to Frankish.
The Frankish Reich Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 The Frankish Reich brought it up first, so I responded. Talk to Frankish. True. And by the way, I'd probably keep OJ in the HOF too, but not if they refuse to discuss his post-retirement conduct. Again, I think the HOF allows for context, for thinking about what fame is, why we honor people (performance on the field? character? both?), whereas putting someone's name on a stadium wall just doesn't. It can't be seen as anything other than honoring the both the man and his achievements.
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