BillsVet Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 (edited) I heard from a pretty reliable source that Whaley did like Marrone but he was his second choice. Buddy Nix made the call and Brandon was all on board with it. Since Nix was still GM and it was his call, Nix got his man, especially with the President also on board. In a way, although I don't think that Brandon does make football decisions, it was easier for him to just let Nix make the call, rather than to override his GM because Nix was going to be leaving soon, and let Whaley have his guy, because Whaley was going to be the guy to remain. So one could say, that Brandon did have an influence on that pick. If you're just going to look at who is the GM and who makes the call, it is Nix and he made it. Brandon would have had to overstep his bounds to overrule Nix. I'm sorry but what team allows their 73 year old GM to pick a HC? And some ascribe the Bills not making the playoffs to bad luck. And why would Russ Brandon essentially abdicate this crucial decision to a guy everyone knew was out the door? Russ has never pushed off a decision he could make since being named CEO and later president. I would love for the next HC to have a close relationship with Whaley. The last coaches haven't, but I think that's more because personalities didn't mesh. And that's because the person hiring the GM and HC were hired by an amateur in Brandon. Edited January 3, 2015 by BillsVet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Absolutely not. I doubt Belichick even gets along with himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 Ok, but do you really care about what the top decision maker wants and doesn't want to make decisions about? Or do you care about the results? And any narrative that Brandon didn't want or wasn't completely comfortable with Marrone has the stench of pure spin. Wasn't Russ just selling the whole "Doug has completely changed the culture" spiel? If I had to say what he should have done, it would have been to override his GM, which is something I would VERY rarely advise and constantly harp on that guys like him should never do. Because that would have been the best thing for the team. It also would have been, as I said, hiring a guy that his own GM and he himself don't think is the best candidate. I don't know of anyone who would do that. I probably wouldn't but I'm not sure if I was in his position. No owner would have done that. Not one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Brandon would have had to do something he is not supposed to do, and people would blame him for doing, and he didn't want to do. Which is overriding his GM. That's a tough call. One he probably should have made, for the betterment of the team. But you would be asking him to overstep his bounds AND go against his own beliefs. That's a lot to ask. While I think that Brandon has done a decent job overall, this is the precisely weasely move that his critics nail him with. As the president, and defacto owner, he would not be overstepping his bounds by over ruling the nominal GM. But by letting the lame duck make the final decision, allows Brandon to be absolved of all blame should that hire backfire. Which it did, and Brandon can sit back, smirk and tell Pegula that he had no part in Marrone's hiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 If I had to say what he should have done, it would have been to override his GM, which is something I would VERY rarely advise and constantly harp on that guys like him should never do. Because that would have been the best thing for the team. It also would have been, as I said, hiring a guy that his own GM and he himself don't think is the best candidate. I don't know of anyone who would do that. I probably wouldn't but I'm not sure if I was in his position. No owner would have done that. Not one. Well, Kelly, it's really a non-starter for me anyway. I don't believe the narrative that Buddy Nix was the only guy who really wanted to hire Doug Marrone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 I'm sorry but what team allows their 73 year old GM to pick a HC? And some ascribe the Bills not making the playoffs to bad luck. So you're telling me that BillsVet, who is de facto owner and President of the Bills, whose GM that is retiring, and one of the reasons he is retiring is because he is picking a new coach and a new QB in the draft and then riding into the sunset, is going to go against that GM, even though you, BillsVet totally agree with him on the choice? Because the new GM likes him too but likes another guy a little better, who you don't? Not a chance, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 While I think that Brandon has done a decent job overall, this is the precisely weasely move that his critics nail him with. As the president, and defacto owner, he would not be overstepping his bounds by over ruling the nominal GM. But by letting the lame duck make the final decision, allows Brandon to be absolved of all blame should that hire backfire. Which it did, and Brandon can sit back, smirk and tell Pegula that he had no part in Marrone's hiring. Exactly. He was proxy-owner. Everything is ultimately on him. There is no "overstepping". (Besides, he wanted Marrone.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 (edited) Well, Kelly, it's really a non-starter for me anyway. I don't believe the narrative that Buddy Nix was the only guy who really wanted to hire Doug Marrone. He wasnt. Brandon wanted him. I assume Overdorf wanted him. Whaley liked him but apparently liked Whisenhunt a little more. No one "knows" who is going to be better. Exactly. He was proxy-owner. Everything is ultimately on him. There is no "overstepping". (Besides, he wanted Marrone.) That is why he was not going to override Nix. Because he wanted Marrone. And I don't want my owner deciding on a coach, especially if it is Brandon or Pegula, I want my GM doing it. Edited January 3, 2015 by Kelly the Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Which part? Kelly told his owner he wanted to make personnel decisions. Next thing we know, Philly no longer has a GM. Marrone asked for, at least, extensions for coaching staff and was denied. I was referring to the notion that there is not that kind of discord in other front offices. I can imagine, but have no evidence for, a rift regarding the Manziel pick in Cleveland, for instance. I just can't hazard a guess either way, as to whether other organizations have relationships that overheat at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 He wasnt. Brandon wanted him. I assume Overdorf wanted him. Whaley liked him but apparently liked Whisenhunt a little more. No one "knows" who is going to be better. That is why he was not going to override Nix. Because he wanted Marrone. And I don't want my owner deciding on a coach, especially if it is Brandon or Pegula, I want my GM doing it. And that's precisely why this franchise is a mess. The outgoing GM and capologist made the hiring decision, the incoming GM and the coach don't get along, and the team president can now blame all of them for things not working ot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 And that's precisely why this franchise is a mess. The outgoing GM and capologist made the hiring decision, the incoming GM and the coach don't get along, and the team president can now blame all of them for things not working ot. Well surely it wasn't an ideal situation. I always thought Overdorf should not be near any of this. But it was better than a 90 year old owner making the decision. Seriously, as I asked BillsVet, if you were in Brandon's situation and the guy you tasked with making the decision wanted a guy, and you wanted that same guy, and the new guy liked him too but liked another guy a little better, that you would have gone against your own head and gut and man you wanted to make the decision? I tried to put myself in that position and couldn't imagine myself going against my own feelings that matched the guy making it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Well surely it wasn't an ideal situation. I always thought Overdorf should not be near any of this. But it was better than a 90 year old owner making the decision. Seriously, as I asked BillsVet, if you were in Brandon's situation and the guy you tasked with making the decision wanted a guy, and you wanted that same guy, and the new guy liked him too but liked another guy a little better, that you would have gone against your own head and gut and man you wanted to make the decision? I tried to put myself in that position and couldn't imagine myself going against my own feelings that matched the guy making it. If I had a high degree of certainty in January that Buddy wouldn't last too much past the draft, I would not let him be the final decision maker. Bills did the opposite of what Polian just said in turning down the job - it would be unfair to the new coach if he weren't there to support him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 If I had a high degree of certainty in January that Buddy wouldn't last too much past the draft, I would not let him be the final decision maker. Bills did the opposite of what Polian just said in turning down the job - it would be unfair to the new coach if he weren't there to support him. Nix said several times that he wasn't going to leave the team until he had a franchise QB. I assume he also wanted to leave the team with a coach before he rode into the sunset. That could have been part of his agreement. I'll step down after we hire a guy and draft a guy. What is Whaley going to say? Please stay longer? He wants the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Nix said several times that he wasn't going to leave the team until he had a franchise QB. I assume he also wanted to leave the team with a coach before he rode into the sunset. That could have been part of his agreement. I'll step down after we hire a guy and draft a guy. What is Whaley going to say? Please stay longer? He wants the job. Again, a clear sign of dysfunction, if that were indeed the case. If he's a lame duck GM, you do not entrust him with major franchise moving decisions. Especially how he flubbed the previous coaching vacancy and his misses on the QBs that were available in 2011 & 2012. That's why the team is where it is right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 Again, a clear sign of dysfunction, if that were indeed the case. If he's a lame duck GM, you do not entrust him with major franchise moving decisions. Especially how he flubbed the previous coaching vacancy and his misses on the QBs that were available in 2011 & 2012. That's why the team is where it is right now. Agree with all of that. That's why we're in the mess we are in now. Although, if we end up with a good coach now, and Whaley in charge, with Daddy Warbucks, and this roster, we are in pretty good shape. Another thing that needs to be an element of this, or part of the discussion, is that Whisenhunt may not have been much better than Marrone. I'm not a Whisenhunt fan, even though he has had a lot more success than Marrone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonabb Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Good topic and I'm sitting here and my biggest concern right now, which goes to this GM/coach issue is the reports that a new coach will report directly to Pegula. I have all the confidence in the world Pegula can run a fracking company and drill wells. I have major concerns over the potential bisection of the direct GM-coach relationship and Pegula taking an active role. My hope is that this is temporary until the hire a prez of football ops who would oversee both the GM and coach. To that end, I think Whaley is legit and firing him would be a step backwards. So I'm hoping that connecting the dots that because Whaley is involved in the coach search that he's staying and the prez of football ops is the end game with Pegula stepping back afterward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Well surely it wasn't an ideal situation. I always thought Overdorf should not be near any of this. But it was better than a 90 year old owner making the decision. Seriously, as I asked BillsVet, if you were in Brandon's situation and the guy you tasked with making the decision wanted a guy, and you wanted that same guy, and the new guy liked him too but liked another guy a little better, that you would have gone against your own head and gut and man you wanted to make the decision? I tried to put myself in that position and couldn't imagine myself going against my own feelings that matched the guy making it. You and GG already commented on this, but if the rumor is true that Brandon knew that Buddy was being ushered out during the coaching search and even told Marrone that at the time, then leaving the decision up to the old codger on the exit slide pointed out to the street is, well, bordering on negligent. Of course, maybe Nix never bothered telling anyone in the organization that he was thinking of retiring nor was he forced out. But like GG said, there had been rumors on the street for months about Nix being out as the GM of football. At any rate, successful organizations have buy-in. The football people work from the same playbook and everyone lines up facing the same goal post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eme123 Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Sure they can If they are blessed with a QB everyone gets along Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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