Kelly the Dog Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Stop for a minute. Think of your ten favorite posters, most knowledgeable (in your mind) members on this board. Now think of all the times you have disagreed with what they said, or their stances on what happened in games, what are the problems on the team, who is good and who isn't, which coaches are good and which aren't, what college players are worth drafting or not, etc. Now think if you were randomly teamed up with that guy, with one of you the GM and one of you the HC of the Bills. You may love working with that guy. You may totally admire him and his football acumen. And you are going to violently disagree with him on a lot of major decisions on your team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I think all this talk that Marrone was a Brandon pick is crazy. I'm sure Brandon liked him, may have talked him up even to Whaley, but know way he was selected if Whaley wasn't also on board, maybe not quite as happy about it as Brandon, but still OK with it. So what happened since. Well just as your example of ten posters, I'm sure there are some that years back, say you would agree with 80% of the time, now you may think that same person is absolutely crazy almost every time he posts. May be a similar thing here, early on their ideas meshed, but as time wore on they changed. Considering Marrone appears to be somewhat of a Cybil personality, I'd more wager on the change coming from Marrones side of things. Add to that it appears that Marrone thinks very highly of himself which added to the delusional state on his side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 team. www.steelers.com/team/front-office.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Stop for a minute. Think of your ten favorite posters, most knowledgeable (in your mind) members on this board. Now think of all the times you have disagreed with what they said, or their stances on what happened in games, what are the problems on the team, who is good and who isn't, which coaches are good and which aren't, what college players are worth drafting or not, etc. Now think if you were randomly teamed up with that guy, with one of you the GM and one of you the HC of the Bills. You may love working with that guy. You may totally admire him and his football acumen. And you are going to violently disagree with him on a lot of major decisions on your team. Of course - that is human nature, The key is that there is a clear delineation of responsibility so that when the disagreements occur there is a path to resolution. Secondly it is vital that neither of you is too big to come back later and say "you know what - you were right and I was wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Seattle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 I think all this talk that Marrone was a Brandon pick is crazy. I'm sure Brandon liked him, may have talked him up even to Whaley, but know way he was selected if Whaley wasn't also on board, maybe not quite as happy about it as Brandon, but still OK with it. I heard from a pretty reliable source that Whaley did like Marrone but he was his second choice. Buddy Nix made the call and Brandon was all on board with it. Since Nix was still GM and it was his call, Nix got his man, especially with the President also on board. In a way, although I don't think that Brandon does make football decisions, it was easier for him to just let Nix make the call, rather than to override his GM because Nix was going to be leaving soon, and let Whaley have his guy, because Whaley was going to be the guy to remain. So one could say, that Brandon did have an influence on that pick. If you're just going to look at who is the GM and who makes the call, it is Nix and he made it. Brandon would have had to overstep his bounds to overrule Nix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I heard from a pretty reliable source that Whaley did like Marrone but he was his second choice. Buddy Nix made the call and Brandon was all on board with it. Since Nix was still GM and it was his call, Nix got his man, especially with the President also on board. In a way, although I don't think that Brandon does make football decisions, it was easier for him to just let Nix make the call, rather than to override his GM because Nix was going to be leaving soon, and let Whaley have his guy, because Whaley was going to be the guy to remain. So one could say, that Brandon did have an influence on that pick. If you're just going to look at who is the GM and who makes the call, it is Nix and he made it. Brandon would have had to overstep his bounds to overrule Nix. Who was Whaley's first choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 Seattle? I think the point is these guys are going to violently disagree with each other at times. I should probably change the title. I didn't really mean to say it couldn't ever work. It can work if one or both of them are willing to acquiesce to the other at times. Or one with less clout will accept that he doesn't have the power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 It's more exciting if the HC and GM are having daily bare-knuckle brawls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 Who was Whaley's first choice? Whisenhunt, who he worked with in Pittsburgh. There were even reports that Whisenhunt was going to be hired by the Bills and had the job. It's more exciting if the HC and GM are having daily bare-knuckle brawls. True. They should have spearing matches in the parking lot. That would be great. Of course - that is human nature, The key is that there is a clear delineation of responsibility so that when the disagreements occur there is a path to resolution. Secondly it is vital that neither of you is too big to come back later and say "you know what - you were right and I was wrong." Yup. Both are essential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 (edited) I heard from a pretty reliable source that Whaley did like Marrone but he was his second choice. Buddy Nix made the call and Brandon was all on board with it. Since Nix was still GM and it was his call, Nix got his man, especially with the President also on board. In a way, although I don't think that Brandon does make football decisions, it was easier for him to just let Nix make the call, rather than to override his GM because Nix was going to be leaving soon, and let Whaley have his guy, because Whaley was going to be the guy to remain. So one could say, that Brandon did have an influence on that pick. If you're just going to look at who is the GM and who makes the call, it is Nix and he made it. Brandon would have had to overstep his bounds to overrule Nix. Not to mention when Marrone was hired it was about 5 or 6 months prior to Whaley getting his promotion. I doubt Whaley was going to jeopardize his impending promotion to GM by saying he doesn't want Marrone. I think he might have been OK with Marrone as suggested but don't think he was his top pick. I know others have said/speculated/confirmed/etc. that Wisenhunt was his guy. To answer the actual question. Yes, a HC and GM can get along, but I encourage friction in their relationship to avoid being complacent. I feel like I have a similar situation with my boss. We are able to get along inside and outside of work but we put each other in our place when it needs to be done. Edited January 3, 2015 by The Wiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I think the point is these guys are going to violently disagree with each other at times. I should probably change the title. I didn't really mean to say it couldn't ever work. It can work if one or both of them are willing to acquiesce to the other at times. Or one with less clout will accept that he doesn't have the power. I think the overwhelming majority of GMs and HC work well together, despite any disagreements they have. The Bills (and Philly I guess) are the exceptions right now, not the norm. Note that 2nd year HC Chip Kelly had enough juice to get his GM booted, yet 2nd year HC Marrone had no juice and quit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I think the overwhelming majority of GMs and HC work well together, despite any disagreements they have. The Bills (and Philly I guess) are the exceptions right now, not the norm. Note that 2nd year HC Chip Kelly had enough juice to get his GM booted, yet 2nd year HC Marrone had no juice and quit. The difference between two winning seasons vs an overall record under .500 right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 I think the overwhelming majority of GMs and HC work well together, despite any disagreements they have. The Bills (and Philly I guess) are the exceptions right now, not the norm. Note that 2nd year HC Chip Kelly had enough juice to get his GM booted, yet 2nd year HC Marrone had no juice and quit. I think most get together well enough to work together, especially if they are winning. I think every single team has violent disagreements between their coach and GM all the time. It's just a matter of how they handle them behind closed doors. Marrone and his St Doug approach is not the best way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I heard from a pretty reliable source that Whaley did like Marrone but he was his second choice. Buddy Nix made the call and Brandon was all on board with it. Since Nix was still GM and it was his call, Nix got his man, especially with the President also on board. In a way, although I don't think that Brandon does make football decisions, it was easier for him to just let Nix make the call, rather than to override his GM because Nix was going to be leaving soon, and let Whaley have his guy, because Whaley was going to be the guy to remain. So one could say, that Brandon did have an influence on that pick. If you're just going to look at who is the GM and who makes the call, it is Nix and he made it. Brandon would have had to overstep his bounds to overrule Nix. If that were the case, the whole lot of them should be fired. Since it was clear that Whaley would replace Nix in short time, it was crazy to have Nix have the ultimate decision on the coaching hire. And this is exactly why this franchise continues to spin its wheels. As the top main, Brandon needed to overrule the departing Nix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 If that were the case, the whole lot of them should be fired. Since it was clear that Whaley would replace Nix in short time, it was crazy to have Nix have the ultimate decision on the coaching hire. And this is exactly why this franchise continues to spin its wheels. As the top main, Brandon needed to overrule the departing Nix. Plausible deniability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I think the overwhelming majority of GMs and HC work well together, despite any disagreements they have. The Bills (and Philly I guess) are the exceptions right now, not the norm. Note that 2nd year HC Chip Kelly had enough juice to get his GM booted, yet 2nd year HC Marrone had no juice and quit. That's an an awfully big assumption to make given the precious little information available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 If that were the case, the whole lot of them should be fired. Since it was clear that Whaley would replace Nix in short time, it was crazy to have Nix have the ultimate decision on the coaching hire. And this is exactly why this franchise continues to spin its wheels. As the top main, Brandon needed to overrule the departing Nix. Brandon would have had to do something he is not supposed to do, and people would blame him for doing, and he didn't want to do. Which is overriding his GM. That's a tough call. One he probably should have made, for the betterment of the team. But you would be asking him to overstep his bounds AND go against his own beliefs. That's a lot to ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 That's an an awfully big assumption to make given the precious little information available. Which part? Kelly told his owner he wanted to make personnel decisions. Next thing we know, Philly no longer has a GM. Marrone asked for, at least, extensions for coaching staff and was denied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Brandon would have had to do something he is not supposed to do, and people would blame him for doing, and he didn't want to do. Which is overriding his GM. That's a tough call. One he probably should have made, for the betterment of the team. But you would be asking him to overstep his bounds AND go against his own beliefs. That's a lot to ask. Ok, but do you really care about what the top decision maker wants and doesn't want to make decisions about? Or do you care about the results? And any narrative that Brandon didn't want or wasn't completely comfortable with Marrone has the stench of pure spin. Wasn't Russ just selling the whole "Doug has completely changed the culture" spiel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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