Superb Owl Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 Like I said he's not bad at O, I just listed players he's hit on. Would you at least agree he seems to be stronger with D than O ?
Wayne Cubed Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 Would you at least agree he seems to be stronger with D than O ? Definitely, but you have to remember they've also drafted and gone after more defensive players.
Superb Owl Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 Definitely, but you have to remember they've also drafted and gone after more defensive players. Ok, but he is responsible for self scouting when a position is not good enough He just seems to have a great feel for D, but behind other GMs too often with O
Wayne Cubed Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 Ok, but he is responsible for self scouting when a position is not good enough He just seems to have a great feel for D, but behind other GMs too often with O Find a Qb and that fixes everything. Finding Qb's is extremely tough, tons of GM's miss on them but if he does hit on one all if forgotten with the offense.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 Marrone wanted a valid QB option to backup and take over from EJ if EJ didnt pan out or got injured, such was very clear with that argument between him/Russ/Whaley at TC. Right after, sign doodle, Whaley/Marrone fight, release doodle, sign Orton. Orton signed with the Bills on August 30th. The loud preseason altercation between St Doug and Monos/Whaley/Brandon was reported by Jason LaCanfora on September 5th. At the time LaCanfora also reported that the Bills "Front Office" was at odds with Marrone about Cyrus Kouandjio and Urbik not getting more of a preseason look, and about Woods being benched. Brandon says Monos wasn't there and the argument was between St Doug and Whaley and claimed ""This is the best working relationship I have seen, to be honest, between a coach and a GM. They're great competitors and communicators." Anyway, Google searching says the Orton signing preceded the fight.
ExWNYer Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 Orton signed with the Bills on August 30th. The loud preseason altercation between St Doug and Monos/Whaley/Brandon was reported by Jason LaCanfora on September 5th. At the time LaCanfora also reported that the Bills "Front Office" was at odds with Marrone about Cyrus Kouandjio and Urbik not getting more of a preseason look, and about Woods being benched. Brandon says Monos wasn't there and the argument was between St Doug and Whaley and claimed ""This is the best working relationship I have seen, to be honest, between a coach and a GM. They're great competitors and communicators." Anyway, Google searching says the Orton signing preceded the fight.
maddenboy Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 Was he as in love with Watkins as Whaley is/was? I'm wondering if anyone in the war room really understood exactly how deep this last draft was at the WR position. From all post-draft accounts, Whaley didnt want to upgrade the WR position. Rather, he wanted to finally use the top of the draft to get a Special Player or 2 or 3. Most contending teams have a few. On offense the Bills had zero. Sure, the draft had some good WRs, but maybe only 1 or 2 franchise changers. There werent any on offense except at WR. So he made his move. I love it (even though I wrongly wanted Mack).
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 From all post-draft accounts, Whaley didnt want to upgrade the WR position. Rather, he wanted to finally use the top of the draft to get a Special Player or 2 or 3. Most contending teams have a few. On offense the Bills had zero. Sure, the draft had some good WRs, but maybe only 1 or 2 franchise changers. There werent any on offense except at WR. So he made his move. I love it (even though I wrongly wanted Mack). The Bills aren't a contending team. My guess is that Whaley thought he had hit a home run with EJM and he wanted the WR he fell in love with. The obvious problem with this reasoning is great QBs raise the game of the other players around them. Jordy Nelson, Wes Welker, etc. are not going to the Jacksonville Jaguars and carrying the rest of that team to the Super Bowl.
timtebow15 Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 From reports I think Polian and Marrone are kindred spirits - they think they know more than anyone else and don't work well with others. I'm glad Polian didn't come and I'm glad Marrone left. Even if you don't think Whaley is getting you what you need you have to build a relationship and trust to get on the same page and help Whaley get you players you prefer. Instead Marrone creates a power struggle, blames others even though he preaches accountability and is just as guilty as Whaley for not seeing improvement in certain areas. I'm not a big fan of Whaley as I do think he's made poor choices on the offensive side of the football so I think Brandon and Whaley need to go as well but I think we all have worked with people like Marrone that make it not make work torturous but also create a dysfunctional environment where you will never be as successful as you should be. I hope Marrone gets burned by his antics and he never gets another chance as head coach. Just the fact he is meeting with the Jets behind the Bills back before the end of the season shows how unethical and selfish he is.
K-9 Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) Orton signed with the Bills on August 30th. The loud preseason altercation between St Doug and Monos/Whaley/Brandon was reported by Jason LaCanfora on September 5th. At the time LaCanfora also reported that the Bills "Front Office" was at odds with Marrone about Cyrus Kouandjio and Urbik not getting more of a preseason look, and about Woods being benched. Brandon says Monos wasn't there and the argument was between St Doug and Whaley and claimed ""This is the best working relationship I have seen, to be honest, between a coach and a GM. They're great competitors and communicators." Anyway, Google searching says the Orton signing preceded the fight. The argument at training camp occurred on August, 26th. LaConfora's article that references that argument came more than a week later. I think Rodak was the first to tweet about it from camp on the August 26th. GO BILLS!!! Edited January 4, 2015 by K-9
HOUSE Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 During the Ralph Wilson years the team was mostly built thru the draft, if you needed a player then you better wait for those rookie contracts. Common sense says Morrone needed a few physical OG's but for some reason the Bills did nothing. Just because the coach says he needs something does mean he is smarter then everyone else.
MarkyMannn Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 I'm glad Polian didn't come and I'm glad Marrone left. ..................so I think Brandon and Whaley need to go as well I would have taken 3 of the above and ditched Whaley. To me the top picks he has missed terribly on. Those are the picks that build your club. To be clear, SW will be good but we traded too much I don't see why everyone is down on Brandon. He is NOT the football guy. In his support he made the Bills A LOT of $$$$
Saint Doug Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 and find out who was back-biting Polian (probably Overdorf at least), and kick them the hell out of the organization forthwith. Don't for get that there was one guy fired, the only guy who was fired, during this mess. That's where people should be shifting their attention.
yungmack Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Agreed... There's not many All Star Offenses in the league and finding a Franchise QB is not exactly an easy thing to do...The Bills as an Organization expected Marrone and Hackett to be able to develop a young QB with a ton of raw talent...And when they couldn't (in assuming) Marrone decides it's Whaley's fault for not bringing in a Franchise guy? Like they grow on trees? Now...I'm not completely taking Whaley off the hook because we all knew going into the 2014 season with 3 kids at QB was going to be a huge risk...But the Bills were not going to be able to get much better than Orton anyway...They got Orton...And he started out decent enough...Then he regressed over the season under the awesome tutelage of St Doug and the boy wonder...I'm fairly certain Marrone asked for help along the O-line...And I'm also fairly certain he had input on the players they brought in...Now...Maybe the guys brought in were not Marrone's first choices...But no one can convince me he had zero input...No way...They signed a mid-level UFA OG, Drafted OT's in the 2nd and 7th rounds along with another prospect OG in the mid rounds...Marrone could do absolutely nothing with three of those four additions...And three of the four were rookies...They have to be developed...That's coaching...And despite what some Bills fans want to think there were plenty of Football minds who felt Kujo and Richardson had more than enough raw talent to be successful in time...Whaley also put his job on the line by going out and getting Marrone the best College WR prospect to come out since Julio Jones...Not to mention the additions of Boobie, Preston Brown, Corey Graham, etc...Whaley's not perfect...No GM is...But he's not bad either... But it's all Whaley's fault because he did not give Marrone what he asked for?...Well...What the hell did he want? We all want Andrew Luck and a couple Pro-Bowl caliber OG's...Who doesn't? But it does not work that way in the NFL...And coaching makes a HUGE difference...St Doug and the boy wonder saw their side of the ball regress...Regress...And under the circumstances Marrone got a hell of a lot more talent than any of his predecessors at OBD... Marrone is a joke...Please let him go to the Jets...Please, please, please... Perfect summation of the situation. Add in that Daily News article about Marrone spending most of his time working with the line (and listening to talk radio blasting him) and his bittling of the "little people" with the Bills and the picture that's emerging is a guy the Bills were lucky to get rid of.
dave mcbride Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) Back when I still liked Marrone, and had no clue of any friction between him and Whaley, I believed and postulated that Whaley probably acquiesced a little to Marrone as far as OL guys go, and even QBS. Not that he would draft players he didn't like, but he would hold Marrone's opinion of those positions highly and more likely, maybe much more likely to lean toward who Marrone wanted. I know that happened with Tuel. It's impossible to believe that Marrone would tell Whaley or manos that I don't want Kujo, I don't think he will pan out, and they drafted him anyway. I don't know if that happened, but it is entirely possible. These two don't like each other. For all I know, whaley traded for mike williams to antagonize marrone. Why else would marrone seem so vindictive toward williams?? Edited January 4, 2015 by dave mcbride
Reed83HOF Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 I don't know if that happened, but it is entirely possible. These two don't like each other. For all I know, whaley traded for mike williams to antagonize marrone. Why else would marrone seem so vindictive toward williams?? LOL that would be hilarious if true. Whaley does not strike me as that kind of guy...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 I don't know if that happened, but it is entirely possible. These two don't like each other. For all I know, whaley traded for mike williams to antagonize marrone. Why else would marrone seem so vindictive toward williams?? The Mike Williams thing was surreal.
MarkyMannn Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Since Whaley has been GM: Offensive guys they have hit on in the Draft: Watkins, Woods, Henderson, Goodwin. Richardson/Kouadijio are still ? but could be good who knows... Doug never played them. Out of the 8 offensive players drafted the Bills have hit on 4 for sure, possibly 5 or 6. I'd say thats pretty good especially since 2-3 of those are high impact players. Offensive guys they have hit on in FA: Boobie Dixon. Only other FA pick up was Chris Williams and he didn't play an entire season so it's hard to know but let's say he's a miss. Dixon is still very very nice pick up. Offensive guys traded or picked up: Mike Williams, Marqueis Gray, Bryce Brown Mike Williams apparently was on Dougs **** list or didn't fit his scheme which is a bit odd. Marqueis Gray is interesting and is a nice FB/TE combo. Brown looked good except for the fumble but again didn't see the field a ton, why? who knows. So you telling me they don't know how to scout offensive players? You set the bar pretty low for HITS Watkins I'll give you Woods is just another guy, 63rd in the league Henderson as the season went on was a turnstile Goodwin one catch Richardson and Koju can;t find the field Dixon 43rd in the league MWilliams 8 catches Brown 126 yards Did we mention EJ? Yeah Whaley can't scout offensive players
Bills Fan of St Augustine Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 No he can't but some talent would be nice. Are you suggesting that Chris Williams, Cyrus and Cyril were talented and the coach couldn't get it out of him? And same with Pears and Urbik? By all accounts, those are not even five mediocre talents. This isn't a "coach em up" situation with the OL. They need to be athletic and smart and if they are, they play (see: Henderson, Seantrel). Spending doesn't equal quality. I don't shop at Walmart for this reason. I really agree with your comment that we need athletic and smart OL (see GB, Denver, Pats, etc) We need someone at OBD who can evaluate OL talent. We don't need to spend 1st round picks on OL if we have front office talent who can sort the wheat from the chaff in rounds three and four. Maronne spent too much time trying to coach up the marginal OL talent and failed miserably. I can't say how much of a voice he had in selecting Cyrus and Cyril, but as fast as he gave up on them, I suspect he was not an advocate. But! Henderson? Are you joking?! He struggled mightily on a line where he was arguably the middle of the pack performer behind both OG positions. All three may pan out in the future, but we needed OL help last year and the strategy of trading for Watkins and reaching for both "Cs" really hurt us and I believe cost us the playoffs this year. "...only two tackles allowing more pressure than Seantrel Henderson." https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/10/08/offensive-line-rankings-2/ http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/16034/bills-offensive-line-ranks-31st-in-bruschis-index
TPS Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 You set the bar pretty low for HITS Watkins I'll give you Woods is just another guy, 63rd in the league Henderson as the season went on was a turnstile Goodwin one catch Richardson and Koju can;t find the field Dixon 43rd in the league MWilliams 8 catches Brown 126 yards Did we mention EJ? Yeah Whaley can't scout offensive players This is silly. Who are you comparing Woods to? All R2 picks in their 2nd year? Calling Henderson a turnstile without any data? Is that how you grade a 7th rounder? Dixon was brought in mainly for STs, and was their 3rd back. He had the highest yards per carry on the Bills. Who are you comparing him to? Richardson, any other 5th round picks start some games? Kujo, yes, expected more. However, most scouting reports said he was raw. It's too early to judge Whaley on this pick. You really have not made much of a case against Whaley. I really agree with your comment that we need athletic and smart OL (see GB, Denver, Pats, etc) We need someone at OBD who can evaluate OL talent. We don't need to spend 1st round picks on OL if we have front office talent who can sort the wheat from the chaff in rounds three and four. Maronne spent too much time trying to coach up the marginal OL talent and failed miserably. I can't say how much of a voice he had in selecting Cyrus and Cyril, but as fast as he gave up on them, I suspect he was not an advocate. But! Henderson? Are you joking?! He struggled mightily on a line where he was arguably the middle of the pack performer behind both OG positions. All three may pan out in the future, but we needed OL help last year and the strategy of trading for Watkins and reaching for both "Cs" really hurt us and I believe cost us the playoffs this year. "...only two tackles allowing more pressure than Seantrel Henderson." https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/10/08/offensive-line-rankings-2/ http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/16034/bills-offensive-line-ranks-31st-in-bruschis-index So Marrone's decision to bench Urbik and move Pears pushed them down from 22 to 32....
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