Kelly the Dog Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Some of you would rather that the team sucks than have it capitulate to pay someone whom you perceive to be a dick, even though it's not your money and the team is bereft of talent. Russ Brandon let the best LT of his generation walk out the door for very little compensation, and with no backup plan in place. You can list out the decisions that have cost this team A DECADE AND A HALF; this is one of them, the TJ Graham instead of Russell Wilson pick was another, there are probably 4-5 other big whammos to list. Anyone who is still arguing that letting Jason Peters go was a good thing is simply a kook-aid drinking moron. The Bills liked him and wanted him. They didn't tell him we wouldn't renegotiate. They offered him around 9m but he said he was worth 10 and the Bills wouldn't pay him that much because they didn't want to or didn't think he was worth it. The Eagles thought he was worth 10 plus a #1 draft pick.
PromoTheRobot Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Oh my goodness... it's like you don't even watch football, you just sit in the stands staring at other fans. Am I wrong here?
Coach Tuesday Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Am I wrong here? You are 100% wrong, yes.
PromoTheRobot Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) You are 100% wrong, yes.Because the Eagles win so much because of having Peters as opposed all those teams in the playoffs with lesser LTs? Edited January 4, 2015 by PromoTheRobot
RealityCheck Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 It is quite revealing how Jason Peters still gets no credit for being a superb LT by the usual suspects. The fact that he is playing well after rupturing his achilles (which some posters applauded) is proof that he has been a great long term investment for the Eagles.
Mr. WEO Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Some of you would rather that the team sucks than have it capitulate to pay someone whom you perceive to be a dick, even though it's not your money and the team is bereft of talent. Russ Brandon let the best LT of his generation walk out the door for very little compensation, and with no backup plan in place. You can list out the decisions that have cost this team A DECADE AND A HALF; this is one of them, the TJ Graham instead of Russell Wilson pick was another, there are probably 4-5 other big whammos to list. Anyone who is still arguing that letting Jason Peters go was a good thing is simply a kook-aid drinking moron. Best of his generation? He may not even be the best current LT. Look at Joe Thomas--more All Pro selections (and 4 first teams--twice as many as Peters). Anyway, I just don't think the Bills would have had any more success with his than they have ahd without him. Comparing the trading an LT to the whiff on a franchise QB like Wilson is crazy. No where near the same inpact. Not even close.
RealityCheck Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Because the Eagles win so much because of having Peters as opposed all those teams in the playoffs with lesser LTs? It is fair to say that they don't lose because of him.
Kellyto83TD Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 He and Mouse were a perfect combination. If the Bills had the stability that they have now (I know I know) he would still be here. The same may go for Marshawn. It doesn't always work that way but both turned into HOF type of players. Congrats to them and hope that they keep it up. Can we finally end this Marshawn BS? He HATED BUFFALO! He didn't want to be here, he wanted out. No way in hell would he have re signed with us if he played out his contract.
PromoTheRobot Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) It is quite revealing how Jason Peters still gets no credit for being a superb LT by the usual suspects. The fact that he is playing well after rupturing his achilles (which some posters applauded) is proof that he has been a great long term investment for the Eagles. He's great. No question. Glad for the Eagles and him and his agent. He's just expensive and his cost/benefit is debatable. The Bills may end up with $30-40MM tied up in their D-line but we see the direct impact those guys have on games. But O-line is a five-man collaboration. Having a $10MM future hall of famer doesn't mean much if the rest of the line isn't working with him. Also pro bowl honors for O-linemen tend to be a self-fulfilling thing. How many of you remember Ruben Brown's string of pro bowls? Did anyone think he was that consistently good? Edited January 4, 2015 by PromoTheRobot
BADOLBILZ Posted January 4, 2015 Author Posted January 4, 2015 It's 6th All pro Selection--his 4th for 2nd team. For half of his career he was protecting the non-blind side of a Left handed, mobile QB. Since he joined the Eagles, they have won zero playoff games (0-3). Really no reason the believe the Bills would have had a different outcome with him than they have had without him. Doubtful he gets into the HOF--certainly not "5 years from now"--lol. Guys like Munoz and Jones, both an order of magnitude better than Peters, did that. It won't be "5 years from now". Correct. Because he's not retiring. As for Munoz and Jones....... I keep forgetting which hand Boomer Esiason threw with. That must've been the light work half of his career? Or how many SB's they won for their teams? Munoz is generally considered the Joe Montana of LT's. Jim Kelly is a HOF'er. You don't have to be Joe Montana. Right now Peters has been better than Boselli and Pace were and closing in on Jones territory. He's every bit the player. Just bigger. And he had to earn every accolade. Those guys all entered the league with HOF expectations from the media. The point of this thread is that the cheese is stacked. You can't put it back in the cow at this point. He was getting HOF discussion last year after rebounding from a twice torn achilles to earn All Pro recognition. Which had obviously never been done before. BTW, I usually like your takes but the material wasn't there this time. When you gotta' go into PTR's bag of excuses you should know you are off course.
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 It won't be "5 years from now". Correct. Because he's not retiring. As for Munoz and Jones....... I keep forgetting which hand Boomer Esiason threw with. That must've been the light work half of his career? Or how many SB's they won for their teams? Munoz is generally considered the Joe Montana of LT's. Jim Kelly is a HOF'er. You don't have to be Joe Montana. Right now Peters has been better than Boselli and Pace were and closing in on Jones territory. He's every bit the player. Just bigger. And he had to earn every accolade. Those guys all entered the league with HOF expectations from the media. The point of this thread is that the cheese is stacked. You can't put it back in the cow at this point. He was getting HOF discussion last year after rebounding from a twice torn achilles to earn All Pro recognition. Which had obviously never been done before. BTW, I usually like your takes but the material wasn't there this time. When you gotta' go into PTR's bag of excuses you should know you are off course. Wait, but Tony Boselli was no good because no Super Bowls.
Max997 Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Not only HOF but candidate for best ever IMO Best LT ever? Absolutely not. Anthony Munoz and Walter Jones were both better to name a few.
Coach Tuesday Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 He's great. No question. Glad for the Eagles and him and his agent. He's just expensive and his cost/benefit is debatable. The Bills may end up with $30-40MM tied up in their D-line but we see the direct impact those guys have on games. But O-line is a five-man collaboration. Having a $10MM future hall of famer doesn't mean much if the rest of the line isn't working with him. Also pro bowl honors for O-linemen tend to be a self-fulfilling thing. How many of you remember Ruben Brown's string of pro bowls? Did anyone think he was that consistently good? Oh ok. But the Bills were willing to pay him $9M a year. You're right, I'm glad that idiotic Eagles franchise burned another $1M/year on a perennial All Pro left tackle, and that we didn't get hoodwinked. That extra money we didn't pay was well reinvested in... oh wait...
JohnC Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) Because the Eagles win so much because of having Peters as opposed all those teams in the playoffs with lesser LTs? The Bills now have one of the worst OLs in the league. Jason Peters would be by far our best llineman if he were on our roster.The Eagles not making the playoffs had little to do with the play of their perennial all-pro LT. So I'm not sure what your point is by your comment? . The Bills grotsesquely overpaying for marginal players such as Derrick Dockery and Langston Walker and not willing to pay to keep the immensely more talented Peters is a reflection of the irrationality of a dysfunctional organization. The Bills brought in reject players, Walker and Dockery, and payed them as if they were all-stars. They had an all-star talent on their roster who they developed and played contract hardball with. A competent organization would have been more willing to use their cap space to keep the talent they already had on their lackluster roster instead of wasting their cap money on overpaying for garbage players who couldn't play. The Bills have been out of the playoffs for 15 consecutive years not because they have made wise decisions but because they have consistently made nonsensical decisions that have haunted this franchise. There is no doubt that Peters didn't handle the contract conflict in the most professional manner. The bottom line is that the Bills overpaid for players who couldn't effectively play and were not willing to pay the market rate for a player who could play at an elite level. That is why the embarrassing playoff drought continues. Bad decisions compounded by more bad decisions takes a toll that is reflected on its accumulated record. Edited January 4, 2015 by JohnC
QB Bills Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 There's a special place in hell reserved for dimwits who use "but what has team x won with player y?"
Coach Tuesday Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 There's a special place in hell reserved for dimwits who use "but what has team x won with player y?" Yes indeed. It's always the last line of defense, and the weakest.
Kirby Jackson Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Can we finally end this Marshawn BS? He HATED BUFFALO! He didn't want to be here, he wanted out. No way in hell would he have re signed with us if he played out his contract.He actually didn't hate it at all. He's an introvert that just wanted to be left alone. He liked the small town atmosphere but doesn't like the microscope on him. He just wants to play football.
BADOLBILZ Posted January 4, 2015 Author Posted January 4, 2015 Can we finally end this Marshawn BS? He HATED BUFFALO! He didn't want to be here, he wanted out. No way in hell would he have re signed with us if he played out his contract. You remember how thrilled Stephon Gilmore was to be drafted by Buffalo? If the Bills don't trade him now should they be villified because they knew he might prefer to live elsewhere during the football season? The idea of players hating Buffalo is by far the most overplayed faux-excuse of the last decade on this board. You could have said the same thing about Bruce Smith early in his career. He struggled, hated the coach, had the team detectives following him around because of his boozing and cocaine use....signed an offer sheet with Denver because he wanted out.....the point is that you don't let players leave because they want to go elsewhere. Every player wants to get paid now and to win now it's the teams job to know when to hold and when to fold and the Bills have been VERY bad at making those calls. VERY. Peters and Lynch are just the obvious examples because they are knocking on the door to Canton while the Bills haven't had any other home grown players of that ilk the past 15 years. Maybe Dareus or Sammy change that.....but remember Peters when those guys want the huge contracts.
Mr. WEO Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 It won't be "5 years from now". Correct. Because he's not retiring. As for Munoz and Jones....... I keep forgetting which hand Boomer Esiason threw with. That must've been the light work half of his career? Or how many SB's they won for their teams? Munoz is generally considered the Joe Montana of LT's. Jim Kelly is a HOF'er. You don't have to be Joe Montana. Right now Peters has been better than Boselli and Pace were and closing in on Jones territory. He's every bit the player. Just bigger. And he had to earn every accolade. Those guys all entered the league with HOF expectations from the media. The point of this thread is that the cheese is stacked. You can't put it back in the cow at this point. He was getting HOF discussion last year after rebounding from a twice torn achilles to earn All Pro recognition. Which had obviously never been done before. BTW, I usually like your takes but the material wasn't there this time. When you gotta' go into PTR's bag of excuses you should know you are off course. Now now--hold on! I do share the opinion that having a "future HOF" LT is nice, it has never amounted to much in the NFL. That's just the nature of the position. The whole argument of whether the Bills were at fault in letting him go isn't really based on the outcome of him leaving. It's an argument about the failures of the front office. There is simply no reason the believe the Bills would had a better outcome if Peters was still here. Therefore---good for Philly, I guess. Another year out of the playoffs because they didn't have a QB to protect. For me, a solid LT on a well coached line is as valuable as a "future HOF" LT on the same. It's truly an ensemble effort. Because the main job for an LT in today's NFL is to prevent something bad from happening, LT's mainly stand out when they are bad. Peters on the current Bills line wouldn't have changed the outcome this year. The best pass rushers aren't always coming from the left side of the QB anymore...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 4, 2015 Author Posted January 4, 2015 Now now--hold on! I do share the opinion that having a "future HOF" LT is nice, it has never amounted to much in the NFL. That's just the nature of the position. The whole argument of whether the Bills were at fault in letting him go isn't really based on the outcome of him leaving. It's an argument about the failures of the front office. There is simply no reason the believe the Bills would had a better outcome if Peters was still here. Therefore---good for Philly, I guess. Another year out of the playoffs because they didn't have a QB to protect. For me, a solid LT on a well coached line is as valuable as a "future HOF" LT on the same. It's truly an ensemble effort. Because the main job for an LT in today's NFL is to prevent something bad from happening, LT's mainly stand out when they are bad. Peters on the current Bills line wouldn't have changed the outcome this year. The best pass rushers aren't always coming from the left side of the QB anymore... Actually.....there isn't any reason to believe they WOULDN'T have been better. That's the only thing one can reasonably infer. Better players mean better team. Anything else is highly subjective and outside of the measurable. There are certainly ways to win without a great LT. But that can be said for every position other than QB. It just usually means being great elsewhere and being great anywhere is not easy. It's not like the Bills got great elsewhere in the process. They did not. But there are instances when your season ends because your tackle can't pass block well enough. For instance last night when Suggs dominated Kelvin Beachum. And Beachum is actually quite good. The Ravens have a junk secondary but Suggs just ate Beachum up and made the plays that swung the outcome of the game. And fwiw......those complaining about Peters/Eugene Parker not playing nice with Russ......Walter Jones was in a CONSTANT contract dispute with Seattle. They didn't trade him though. And eventually he and Hutchinson teamed to give Seattle the strongest run blocking in the NFL and got them to a SB with by no means a great QB. He was no doubt a great and consistent player but he wasn't any better on gameday than Peters. I once saw Jones give up 2 sacks to a 40 year old Bruce Smith. Peters is bigger and more powerful and a very comparable athlete.
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