hondo in seattle Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) This is really screwed up if true. Wny? Unorthodox? Maybe. Screwed up? Not necessarily. Really the only thing the GM is supposed to do with coaches is hire the HC. Other than that, in most cases, he lets the coach do his thing. In a couple cases, the GM reports to the HC. I don't see why the HC has to report to the GM or vice-versa. They're distinct job functions. Too often you see good coaches get fired by bad GMs because the GM doesn't want to accept the fact that he just hasn't acquired enough player talent for his coach to work with. If Pegula separates the two (GM and HC) in the organization structure, you preclude that. Edited January 2, 2015 by hondo in seattle
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 Wny? Unorthodox? Maybe. Screwed up? Not necessarily. Really the only thing the GM is supposed to do with coaches is hire the HC. Other than that, in most cases, he lets the coach do his thing. In a couple cases, the GM reports to the HC. I don't see why the HC has to report to the GM or vice-versa. They're distinct job functions. Too often you see good coaches get fired by bad GMs because the GM doesn't want to accept the fact that he just hasn't acquired enough player talent for his coach to work with. If Pegula separates the two (GM and HC) in the organization structure, you preclude that. If you were Pegula and owned this team, wouldn't you want to roll up your sleeves and figure out what is going on after this past week? Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
NewEra Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 This is EXACTLY what I was hoping to hear. Let the personnel guy pick a coach that he can work with, shares a vision with, and has enough of a difference with that they can challenge each other in the right way. Good job Pegulas; this is the right approach. Exactly. Glad Whaley is still our GM. Praying he doesn't leave. I trust him to right this crooked ship
3rdand12 Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 I dont actually trust any of them at this point. lets see how it shakes out shall we ?
thewildrabbit Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 This isn't about two people viewing the same situation differently simply because the head coach can only coach the players given to him by the GM, and this GM gave Marrone some complete crap players for the O line. Rashomon... Marrone thought he could mold Colin Brown, that he was good enough to start for the team, and when he stunk the joint up, Whaley had to find the best he could after the season started. I'll give you Williams. Urbik on a line that has talent around him is decent, but they could upgrade, obviously... Again, with Kuoandjio they got exactly how he was described, "raw tools and high ceiling are far more appealing...at this point in his development." Marrone had good things to say about him in the season-ending PC, so I;m leery. He could turn into a good RT needed for their power running game. It's premature to judge Ck and Whaley for the pick this point. Again, you blame Whaley, and I think it's Marrone. In the second half you essentially had 4 of the same players from the previous year, yet they were worse. Lastly, Marrone has stated that the plan was to build the D first, and he also wanted to help his friend on STs. Again, I think we'll get an answer to which view is correct as we see what kind of line play we get this year from most likely 4/5 of the same starters (Pears is definitely gone). While I've also been very critical of Marrone in his two seasons as HC particularly because his failure on offense considering his forte of being an ex NFL OC, ex NFL O line coach, and ex NFL player. Still, nobody on earth can magically transform a talent less piece of crap into a decent player no matter how hard they try. While I've been critical of Marrone I've also been very critical of Pears, Urbik long before Whaley took over. Then Whaley did sign utter garbage players in free agency the last two years, and most Bills fans wouldn't argue this point. Lastly, the simple fact is that if Kouandjio had been the 7th round pick he would have been cut by now, and I'm not holding my breath waiting for him or Richardson to become viable starters. Sorry, I don't see this as doing an excellent job. P.S. Care to see why I think Urbik stinks? if you have TiVo and recorded that Bills at Raiders game. Go to 6:19 in the first quarter. Its 7 Bills on the line vs 5 Raiders in a two WR, one back set at the snap. The Raiders RDT Antonio Smith breaks thru the line dragging Urbik with him 5 yards deep into the Buffalo backfield where he tackles Spiller just after he gets the hand off. Urbik sucks just as bad as Pears, if not more so. If Smith hadn't made the tackle there were two other Raider defenders to tackle Spiller before he even made it to the line. Smith isn't anything special as an older, and not so good DT as he only has 3 sacks, 18 tackles on the season in 16 games.
respk Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 Given that the HC reports to the owner and that the owners are involved in the interviews, I'm thinking the owners are picking the next coach. Whaley is there to play a role and put in his two cents but I don't think he is picking the coach. It looks like the Pegula's are.
hondo in seattle Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 Given that the HC reports to the owner and that the owners are involved in the interviews, I'm thinking the owners are picking the next coach. Whaley is there to play a role and put in his two cents but I don't think he is picking the coach. It looks like the Pegula's are. Pegula might have told Whaley that the final decision is his. But with the Pegulas attending every interview, it will be hard for Whaley not to know which way they lean. And then what? Does Whaley go with his own judgment or defer to the Pegulas? There's never been a lot of job stability in defying owners. Let's hope the Pegulas and Whaley agree.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 Pegula might have told Whaley that the final decision is his. But with the Pegulas attending every interview, it will be hard for Whaley not to know which way they lean. And then what? Does Whaley go with his own judgment or defer to the Pegulas? There's never been a lot of job stability in defying owners. Let's hope the Pegulas and Whaley agree. I highly doubt that the Pegulas would pick the coach over any GM. That would be terrible and set an awful precedent. From paying attention to what they do, I think there is no chance of this.
BrooklynBills Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 Given that the HC reports to the owner and that the owners are involved in the interviews, I'm thinking the owners are picking the next coach. Whaley is there to play a role and put in his two cents but I don't think he is picking the coach. It looks like the Pegula's are. That's because Doug Whaley will not be the GM of this team for very long into the future and the new coach will not be tied to him in any way.
K-9 Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 (edited) Marrone wanted changes to the players on the O line in the off season, and was told no by the FO. Totally revisionist and utterly discounts the OL additions made in free agency as well as the draft. Feel free to argue the effectiveness of those OL additions, that's fair, but to say no changes were made or denied is not true. GO BILLS!!! Edited January 3, 2015 by K-9
Kelly the Dog Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 Marrone wanted changes to the players on the O line in the off season, and was told no by the FO. Totally revisionist and utterly discounts the OL additions made in free agency as well as the draft. Feel free to argue the effectiveness of those OL additions, that's fair, but to say no changes were made or denied is not true. GO BILLS!!! Not to mention that it was wholly Marrone's decision to play Pears at OG which was an unqualified disaster. As well as playing Henderson at LT the entire offseason and preseason and then playing him at RT right off the bat, where he wasnt ready. And playing Richardson when he wasn't ready.
BrooklynBills Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 The whole OL situation was really !@#$ed from all sides IMO. The players brought in were terrible. And Marrone's decisions were questionable.
K-9 Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 Just curious, do people really believe that the Pegulae won't bring certain skills and insights as well as "closing" ability to the interview process? Do people have visions that Kim is gonna insist on a break down of offensive and defensive philosophy and then argue with Whaley about those merits? I am surprised by the decision to exclude Overdorf, although I think TP knows his way around a clause in a contract. His days must be numbered. GO BILLS!!!
Kirby Jackson Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 Just curious, do people really believe that the Pegulae won't bring certain skills and insights as well as "closing" ability to the interview process? Do people have visions that Kim is gonna insist on a break down of offensive and defensive philosophy and then argue with Whaley about those merits? I am surprised by the decision to exclude Overdorf, although I think TP knows his way around a clause in a contract. His days must be numbered. GO BILLS!!! Well said!! I can't believe that these meddling owners want to be involved in hiring a coach!! What do the Pegula's know about zone blocking schemes?!?
papazoid Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 how can kim's and terry's direct involvement in the interview process be anything other than good. overdorff is a cap guy. we have about $50 mil to spend. he doesn't need to be there.
Lurker Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 If you were Pegula and owned this team, wouldn't you want to roll up your sleeves and figure out what is going on after this past week? Something is rotten in the state of Denmark. Hi Ralph...
K-9 Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 how can kim's and terry's direct involvement in the interview process be anything other than good. overdorff is a cap guy. we have about $50 mil to spend. he doesn't need to be there. There is absolutely NO downside to the Pegulae being in attendance. I'd be suspect if they weren't, actually. GO BILLS!!!
Nasty Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 I think Whaley should be the only one to say who the coach is. Yes the owner is going to pay the coach but he is also paying the GM to do a job and that is build a team and find good football players. The way you build a team is get players first then find a coach suitable to coach the players and lead them to victories. Not find a coach then get a GM that is when power struggles occur. If the GM (i.e. Whaley is the one hiring the Head Coach there is no mis reading the situation by the Head Coach and he knows from day one where he is in the food chain). So go for it Whaley....in Whaley we trust.
K-9 Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 I think Whaley should be the only one to say who the coach is. Yes the owner is going to pay the coach but he is also paying the GM to do a job and that is build a team and find good football players. The way you build a team is get players first then find a coach suitable to coach the players and lead them to victories. Not find a coach then get a GM that is when power struggles occur. If the GM (i.e. Whaley is the one hiring the Head Coach there is no mis reading the situation by the Head Coach and he knows from day one where he is in the food chain). So go for it Whaley....in Whaley we trust. Do you honestly think the Pegulae are gonna veto Whaley's best recommendation? What's more likely to occur: they veto Whaley or they assist Whaley in closing the deal on a coaching prospect he really wants? Do you think the Pegulae have certain hiring skills they can bring to the table? It's all a two-way street. Everybody can do their best in the process of trying to land their best prospect, but if the guy doesn't want to be here, there's nothing anyone can do. But I strongly feel the Pegulae give us a leg up in that regard. Indeed, I think it gives us a competitive advantage over some other ball clubs. GO BILLS!!!
Lurker Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 If the GM (i.e. Whaley is the one hiring the Head Coach there is no mis reading the situation by the Head Coach and he knows from day one where he is in the food chain). So go for it Whaley....in Whaley we trust. Gotta agree. Having a clear chain of command is essential in any business. There has to be a single head of football operations and as much as I appreciate Terry and Kim's commitment, they should not be in that org chart, given their complete lack of experience in the NFL. That has to be Whaley's role, and if they don't think he's up to it, someone more experienced over him (i.e., the envisioned Polian role).
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