Whaley will head coaching search

[LabattBlue]

Wny?

 

Unorthodox? Maybe. Screwed up? Not necessarily.

 

Really the only thing the GM is supposed to do with coaches is hire the HC. Other than that, in most cases, he lets the coach do his thing.

 

In a couple cases, the GM reports to the HC.

 

I don't see why the HC has to report to the GM or vice-versa. They're distinct job functions.

 

Too often you see good coaches get fired by bad GMs because the GM doesn't want to accept the fact that he just hasn't acquired enough player talent for his coach to work with. If Pegula separates the two (GM and HC) in the organization structure, you preclude that.

 

 

 

Seriously? The coach and GM should be working hand in hand to build a winner. What happens the first time the coach goes running to the owner because he doesn't like the players the GM is bringing in? Ticking time bomb. Screwed up chain of command is a disaster waiting to happen if this is true.

 

...and for what teams does the GM report to the coach, unless the coach also holds the title of something above the GM?

Edited January 3, 2015 by LabattBlue

[NoSaint]

There is absolutely NO downside to the Pegulae being in attendance. I'd be suspect if they weren't, actually.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Might be overstating a tad. They could be great additions or terrible- there's really not a reason to assume either beside the old battle between optimism vs pessimism. I like to give the benefit of the doubt here though as we've been given no reason to doubt him. It's possible he will have poor judgement and be meddling though

 

An owner partaking isn't inherently bad as some portray though

Edited January 3, 2015 by NoSaint

[thewildrabbit]

Gotta agree.

 

Having a clear chain of command is essential in any business. There has to be a single head of football operations and as much as I appreciate Terry and Kim's commitment, they should not be in that org chart, given their complete lack of experience in the NFL.

 

That has to be Whaley's role, and if they don't think he's up to it, someone more experienced over him (i.e., the envisioned Polian role).

Holy cow I agree.

 

While I can understand the Pegula's wanting to be involved in the structure of building the football side, so they can see the process of how things are done. Or should they not trust the current people at the top.

 

I was really hoping that these new owners would hire a team president first thing to oversee the football side of operations while they stay in the background, or just on the financial side of things. The very last thing I was hoping to not see was another owner that needs to be involved in every aspect of the football side.

 

Even if the new owners just sit in the room, and then let Whaley make all the decisions. I still don't think he is ready to handle total control given whats happened with the offensive players the last two years.

 

Geez, hire a Mike Holmgren to oversee the team as temporary president or hire Ted Thompson for a permanent position, and let either of them make the football decisions. I can't think of anyone more adapt at finding quality talent then Thompson. If they are waiting for the playoffs to end to hire someone at the top, then I don't get doing interviews for a new HC now.

[K-9]

Might be overstating a tad. They could be great additions or terrible- there's really not a reason to assume either beside the old battle between optimism vs pessimism. I like to give the benefit of the doubt here though as we've been given no reason to doubt him. It's possible he will have poor judgement and be meddling though

 

An owner partaking isn't inherently bad as some portray though

I strongly doubt any HC has ever been hired without the owner's direct involvement on some level.

 

I'd be interested to know what that list of negatives consists of, though. Seriously, where's the downside?

 

GO BILLS!!!

[billsfan89]

Warrow just reported Russ will be "advising" in the search.

I don't think that's that big of a deal. If Whaley gets the final say Russ putting in his 2 cents isn't a bad thing. Russ probably has contacts and connections all across the league, it isn't the end of the world if he throws some names out there or gives Whaley some numbers. Seems like Whaley is the guy making all the calls.

[thewildrabbit]

First let me say I've not been a Marrone fan since I watched him out on the practice field "hands on" with the O line players only to see them perform so poorly.

Not to mention that it was wholly Marrone's decision to play Pears at OG which was an unqualified disaster. As well as playing Henderson at LT the entire offseason and preseason and then playing him at RT right off the bat, where he wasnt ready. And playing Richardson when he wasn't ready.

Hey, I agree that Marrone made some very questionable calls with the line players. But then having watched Urbik over the years I can see why St Doug would at least give Richardson a chance to gain a starting job over Urbik. I've been highly critical of both Pears and Uribk the last three years. While they seem to hold their own most plays. They both make mistakes at critical times, and both usually play poorly against quality opponents, and even against bad opponents on the road. While I agree that Pears at RG was a disaster, I also didn't really see a better option.

 

Marrone played the cards he was dealt, and he was dealt those cards two years in a row. It boggles my mind how anyone on this planet with a normal brain would want to see three rookie QB's starting behind a line of Colin Brown, Eric Pears, Kraig Urbik, and then when they cut Brown it was Doug Legursky starting at LG, then he was cut for the 2014 season. Then basically the same players with a 2nd year QB this year.

 

I don't think you could find more then one Bills fan who didn't think the entire line was a disaster this season, and I know who that one fan is...

 

Lastly, I don't think anyone ever mentioned that Whaley didn't attempt to upgrade the offensive line with players. I just think he did a very, very poor job for two years now.

 

 

 

"The front office has also bristled at how certain players are being used, sources said. Team executives believe tackle Cyrus Kouandjio, this year's second-round pick, warranted more of a long look this summer, were unhappy that emerging receiver Robert Woodswas benched at times, and they were also at odds over guard Kraig Urbik, who the personnel side believes is a quality guard (he just received a contract extension a few years back) but who Marrone has soured on (the team explored trades for Urbik before roster cuts, league sources said)."

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24695455/buffalo-tension-boils-over-in-shouting-match-for-marrone-bills-officials

 

 

I can see why Marrone wanted out of a situation he had very little control over.

[Dan]

The line ..was.. a disaster this season, but I contend that it was more to do with bad coaching than bad players. It was Marrone who bucked traditonal wisdom and said continuity on the line doesn't matter, and then proceded to jumble everyone not named Glenn or Wood in various positions well into the regular season.

 

High draft picks got little time, Pears moved to a position he had never played before, Henderson prepped the entire offseason for one spot only to switch to the opposite side, Urbik was benched for no reason... those were all coaching decisions. And when they played poorly? It was like a self fulfilling prophecy of proof that we needed better players.

 

Between the pop warner blocking schemes and play design and line shuffling, its no wonder our run game suffered all season, culminating with a 13 yard performance. To achieve ineptitude like that, it takes a full effort by everyone... players and coaches.

 

Whaley has addressed the line and I fully expect he will again this off season. But, to lay all the offensive ineptitude at his feet for player acquisition is overlooking the huge dysfunction that was our coaching staff.

[1B4IDie]

Just curious, do people really believe that the Pegulae won't bring certain skills and insights as well as "closing" ability to the interview process? Do people have visions that Kim is gonna insist on a break down of offensive and defensive philosophy and then argue with Whaley about those merits?

 

I am surprised by the decision to exclude Overdorf, although I think TP knows his way around a clause in a contract. His days must be numbered.

 

GO BILLS!!!

No one is worried about Los Pegulas in the interview.

People are worried that the reporting structure

1.) Will scare away quality candidates

2.) Show that Whaley's days are numbered

 

Why would the HC report to the Owner if the GM is going to be around awhile?

No coach wants to be the incumbent HC under a new GM. New GMs tend to shut can existing coaches in short order and bring in their own guy.

 

If the GM reports to Brandon and the HC reports to Pegula what happens on Day 2 when there is a personal decision that the HC doesn't like?

 

The HC reporting to the owner doesn't have the mark of a stable front office.

A guy like Adam Gase would be smart enough to stay away from that mess. Especially with a sweet guy like Manning's "OC". (Not that U want Gase, but a team with a screwy FO doesn't give quality candidates warm and fuzzies especially if they already have good gigs.

 

That is the concern.

[8-8 Forever?]

Obvious choice but the move had to be made. It's a good sign for Whaley. It appears he won the power struggle.

Yeah this needs to end quickly. Lots of football business to do.

[papazoid]

A source close to the situation told The News that executives from previous owner Ralph Wilson’s regime – eager to maintain their power – badmouthed Polian in Marrone’s presence during the season. After Marrone exercised his exit clause Wednesday, he told Polian what he’d heard. Polian relayed that information while informing Terry Pegula on Thursday of his decision to remain an ESPN analyst, the source said.

 

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/pegulas-get-involved-as-bills-begin-coaching-search-20150102

 

whaley absolutely needs the pegula's there for credibility.

 

no coach is going to accept coming to buffalo on whaley's say so alone.

[machine gun kelly]

I question whether the story is accurate. What if it was taken out of context, and Pegula meant to say he would make the final decision on executive hiring decisions. It's either that, or he is getting ready to fire Whaley.

 

I'm glad the Pegulas are in the search process, but for the previous posters who discussed a chain of command, I agree. I've been in management for over 15 years in medical device sales, and your executive team should always sign off on final hires, but there needs to be a direct chain with defined roles. If you circumvent this chain, it will lead to a dysfunctional environment and ultimately a lack of success.

 

Has Whaley made some mistakes, yes, but he has also found gems too. I really like our depth on the defensive line, good pick ups in Wynn, Charles, trading for Hughes, Thigpen, Grey, and so on.

 

He was involved in the organization when they hit on Kiko, Cordy Glenn, Gillmore, and Henderson. He was the one who picked up Brown. I know the Sammy trade, the EJ pick, but he is a large reason why we have a more talented roster. The great Polian has made many misses, so has Belicheck, and so many others.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Great news for Whaley

 

@ByTimGraham: Bills sources: GM Doug Whaley will lead the coaching search. Adam Gase will be the first interview Saturday. Frank Reich to follow.

he better do better than Marroon this time

[Casey D]

So what do we have putting all the pieces together?

 

Pegula inherits a bit of a mess when he buys the team in October. The coach and GM don't get along, and Brandon seems caught in the middle. I'm a nice guy, and don't believe that this much tension is good in any organization. We need to all be pulling on the same oar--what do I do.

 

My first instinct is to find a reliable person with experience to figure this mess out for me. I'll get Polian--like I got Lafontaine. That's the ticket. But then I begin to understand that Polian was a divisive figure himself when at the Bills. And he really does not want to work that hard at this point. But stil, he is a legend and I really like legends.

 

Then Marrone makes a power play, and that pis@es me off. Eff him. And I begin to understand further that maybe Marrone is a big factor is all the strife in the organization.

 

Polian starts to get cold feet because somehow he likes Marrone. We mutually agree for our own reasons that this isn't working out. Lafontaine did not work out-- hmm, maybe I should not do the same thing

 

Through all this, I come to the conclusion that I like Doug Whaley. He is solid and dependable, maybe I should trust him like that Murray guy who is doing a nice job as GM with the Sabres. I like Russ too, he's been with me for a while now. But I can't let these two go off on their own because I will be toast in the media and they were a part of the dysfunction, if not necessarily the cause. Let's work hand in hand to find a new coach together. In the foxhole together and all that. We will either bond or not. But at the end of the day if we don't bond, at least I will know I have a coach I can work with moving forward. And given I don't have a czar and the exigencies require me to find a coach ASAP, I have no better alternative than to do this myself with the help of the guys I trust the most.

 

Kim, Russ Doug let's gas up the plane and find us a coach. Someone who will help calm the waters and get us a Super Bowl. Let's move.

[1B4IDie]

So what do we have putting all the pieces together?

 

Pegula inherits a bit of a mess when he buys the team in October. The coach and GM don't get along, and Brandon seems caught in the middle. I'm a nice guy, and don't believe that this much tension is good in any organization. We need to all be pulling on the same oar--what do I do.

 

My first instinct is to find a reliable person with experience to figure this mess out for me. I'll get Polian--like I got Lafontaine. That's the ticket. But then I begin to understand that Polian was a divisive figure himself when at the Bills. And he really does not want to work that hard at this point. But stil, he is a legend and I really like legends.

 

Then Marrone makes a power play, and that pis@es me off. Eff him. And I begin to understand further that maybe Marrone is a big factor is all the strife in the organization.

 

Polian starts to get cold feet because somehow he likes Marrone. We mutually agree for our own reasons that this isn't working out. Lafontaine did not work out-- hmm, maybe I should not do the same thing

 

Through all this, I come to the conclusion that I like Doug Whaley. He is solid and dependable, maybe I should trust him like that Murray guy who is doing a nice job as GM with the Sabres. I like Russ too, he's been with me for a while now. But I can't let these two go off on their own because I will be toast in the media and they were a part of the dysfunction, if not necessarily the cause. Let's work hand in hand to find a new coach together. In the foxhole together and all that. We will either bond or not. But at the end of the day if we don't bond, at least I will know I have a coach I can work with moving forward. And given I don't have a czar and the exigencies require me to find a coach ASAP, I have no better alternative than to do this myself with the help of the guys I trust the most.

 

Kim, Russ Doug let's gas up the plane and find us a coach. Someone who will help calm the waters and get us a Super Bowl. Let's move.

Very Plausible.

 

but you will be told how idiotic it is to compare what Pegula does as owner of the Sabres to what Pegula does as owner of the Bills. There is a commandment on this board and you just broke it. Thou shalt not compare Sabres FO to Bills FO.

[Wayne Cubed]

Lastly, I don't think anyone ever mentioned that Whaley didn't attempt to upgrade the offensive line with players. I just think he did a very, very poor job for two years now.

 

 

Yea, yea I know you think OL is your schtick so you know after 1 year of drafting 3 OL that Whaley has done a "very, very poor job"? You mean like that fact that he got a starting RT in the 7th round of the draft? Wow, what a crap job he did there. And I guess you've already made your mind up about Richardson and Kouandijio, their collective careers are done in the NFL after 1 season, who knew. Obviously OL don't struggle at first adjusting to the pro game. How long did it take Andre Smith to becoming one of the best RT's in the NFL? Oh that's right, it took 2 seasons.

 

 

 

Hey, I agree that Marrone made some very questionable calls with the line players. But then having watched Urbik over the years I can see why St Doug would at least give Richardson a chance to gain a starting job over Urbik. I've been highly critical of both Pears and Uribk the last three years. While they seem to hold their own most plays. They both make mistakes at critical times, and both usually play poorly against quality opponents, and even against bad opponents on the road. While I agree that Pears at RG was a disaster, I also didn't really see a better option.

 

And I find this part even more odd. You've watched him over the years huh? According to your favorite football analytics site PFF, Urbik was the 8th best RG. Let's repeat that so it sinks in, the 8th best RG. What does St. Doug do, well he lets his stubbornness get the better of him and benches Urbik in favor of Erik freaking Pears. Is Urbik a good LG? No, he's pretty average but he is certainly an above average RG. The benching of Urbik is mind boggling.

 

Lets not forget Glenn is now regressing at LT but I suppose that's because poor ole' Doug is just playing the hand he was dealt.

 

Or wait, why doesn't Doug realize that maybe his line has some weak spots and change up the way it's run? Or coach up some guys seeing as he is a former OL and coached the OL for many years.

[dave mcbride]

A source close to the situation told The News that executives from previous owner Ralph Wilsons regime eager to maintain their power badmouthed Polian in Marrones presence during the season. After Marrone exercised his exit clause Wednesday, he told Polian what hed heard. Polian relayed that information while informing Terry Pegula on Thursday of his decision to remain an ESPN analyst, the source said.[/size]

 

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/pegulas-get-involved-as-bills-begin-coaching-search-20150102

 

whaley absolutely needs the pegula's there for credibility.

 

no coach is going to accept coming to buffalo on whaley's say so alone.

Littman and Overdorf badmouthing Polian sounds entirely plausible to me. Especially Littmann. They allegedly hated each other. Edited January 3, 2015 by dave mcbride

[Best Player Available]

I strongly doubt any HC has ever been hired without the owner's direct involvement on some level.

 

I'd be interested to know what that list of negatives consists of, though. Seriously, where's the downside?

 

GO BILLS!!!

Well, IMO one would be the Ralph Wilson era. A Primer on how not too run a franchise. Plenty of downside there. owner meddling as Bills fans have seen can at times can completely destroy chemistry. That's why a coach worth his salt would not even interview with the Bills at times over the 50+ years. Some of the better Bills coaches even quit because of ownership direct involvement Chuck Knox being a prime example.

[OldTimer1960]

No one is worried about Los Pegulas in the interview.

People are worried that the reporting structure

1.) Will scare away quality candidates

2.) Show that Whaley's days are numbered

Why would the HC report to the Owner if the GM is going to be around awhile?

No coach wants to be the incumbent HC under a new GM. New GMs tend to shut can existing coaches in short order and bring in their own guy.

If the GM reports to Brandon and the HC reports to Pegula what happens on Day 2 when there is a personal decision that the HC doesn't like?

The HC reporting to the owner doesn't have the mark of a stable front office.

A guy like Adam Gase would be smart enough to stay away from that mess. Especially with a sweet guy like Manning's "OC". (Not that U want Gase, but a team with a screwy FO doesn't give quality candidates warm and fuzzies especially if they already have good gigs.

That is the concern.

I am generally one to see the Bills' moves in a positive light as compared to some here, but on this I agree completely.

 

If they aren't sure that they want to keep Whaley, they need to replace him now rather than let him lead the selection process for a coach that won't report to him. For the record, I think that Whaley has done a good job, but this is a fiasco - if what has been reported is true.

[FLFan]

Littman and Overdorf badmouthing Polian sounds entirely plausible to me. Especially Littmann. They allegedly hated each other.

Littman has not worked for the Bills since the sale, but Overdorf would not surprise me, nor would Brandon.

Edited January 3, 2015 by MDFan

[PromoTheRobot]

I don't get why some people around here have this hate for Brandon. The turn-around in the Bills fortunes began with him taking the reins from Ralph. If you like how the business side has been going, including the regionalization of the team, that's Brandon. If you like Whaley, remember it was Brandon who befriend a young Whaley, kept in touch with him over the years, and brought him in as GM-in-Waiting behind Nix. If you like the improved drafting over the last few years, that's Brandon, whose first order of business with Nix was to enlarge and improve the Scouting Department. If you like the improved Cap situation, that too is Brandon. If you don't like Marrone, then I guess that's a knock on Brandon. But really, was Marrone horrible? No he wasn't. While I'm delighted he's gone, I hardly think he's the worst coach in Bills history. Far from it.

 

As to his role going forward, the guy knows a hundred times more about the nuts and bolts of the NFL than the Pegulas do, he knows how the Bills work, and he knows the people you need to know around the league and around the game. Kim and Terry are learning and will certainly "get it" with time and experience. But for the moment, Brandon is indispensable in my opinion and I believe he will continue to be the key "consigliere" to the Pegulas. Be thankful the Bills have him and Whaley.

Brandon was also the guy who added the $400MM poison pill language to the RWS lease, the biggest thing that scared away the L.A. types according to Polancarz.

Littman has not worked for the Bills since the sale, but Overdorf would not surprise me, nor would Brandon.

But Littman was around before Pegula took over. This Polian talk could have happened a while ago.

Edited January 3, 2015 by PromoTheRobot