IndyJay1234 Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 I don't get why we are surprised a new owner will equal new leadership. I think the bigger shock is we were conned into buying Russ Brandon's koolaide one last time that it was all one happy family.
DirtDart Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 I'm asking the question, not stating it as a fact or even an opinion. But right now, here is what we know: Marrone chose to walk away and pocket some cash instead of working for Pegula. Polian talked to Pegula about serving as a consultant, and said "no thank you" - again, all he was going to do was consult, and something turned him off about the situation. Pat Lafontaine stormed out of the Sabres' organization because something about the management structure drove him mad. Right now, there does not appear to have been any coherent plan in place for the beginning of the NFL offseason - Pegula's first as team owner. He's had several months to figure out what he wanted to do, yet it seems like he's in reactive mode to the events unfolding in front of him. Maybe there's a plan and we're not privy to it, I really don't know. But I'm starting to wonder if this guy knows how to run a sports franchise. Something about him seems to be radioactive. Again, I'm just asking the question. I guess we'll find out soon enough. Well, We still have two Major sports teams in Buffalo. That is because of T-Pegs, dropped over 1.9 B into the city. I am comfortable with what decisions he makes. They don't become Billionaires because their idiots. He needs to surround himself with good Football/Hockey people to be successful, I think he understands this.
jester43 Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 PS I wish people would use historical facts when they talk about the Sabres. They had the best second half record in the league when Pegula bought the team, and conventional wisdom held that they were only a few players away. They then won the offseason derby, convincing many high profile vets to join the franchise. Unfortunately that backfired and it's after that, that Pegula decided to do a full rebuild. Only an idiot or Bucky Gleason would call Pegula's reign over Sabres incompetent. There was always a plan, and quick pivots to update the plan. I'm not calling it incompetent, but WOW were they slow on the draw when it was clear the ship was sinking. You don't remember the "what has he done wrong?" interview? I was questioning his sanity at that point. It was posted elsewhere and I totally agree...Pegulas should have been ready with their own advisors the next day after they took over. That they didn't suggests they have a lot to learn and, like with the sabres, there is a very good chance this gets worse before it gets better.
Coach Tuesday Posted January 2, 2015 Author Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) I'm not calling it incompetent, but WOW were they slow on the draw when it was clear the ship was sinking. You don't remember the "what has he done wrong?" interview? I was questioning his sanity at that point. It was posted elsewhere and I totally agree...Pegulas should have been ready with their own advisors the next day after they took over. That they didn't suggests they have a lot to learn and, like with the sabres, there is a very good chance this gets worse before it gets better. This is where I come out (for now). The Sabres seem like they're in very good shape now, and Pegula should get full credit for finding an excellent GM and empowering him to do a full rebuild. And I can understand the change in approach midstream (giving Regier a chance to get it right before blowing it all up). That said, the Lafontaine incident spooks me, not so much because Patty left in a huff (he's a difficult personality), but because it is pretty clear that there are lots of undefined roles and voices running around Terry's inner circle, which seemed to cause Lafontaine to have a meltdown. I don't want a glorified booster like Batista to get his paws on the Bills - they have enough problems inside OBD. And don't forget that Ted Nolan was close to quitting a couple of months ago. I have no doubt that Terry Pegula is a brilliant businessman and that he is truly committed to getting the Bills and Sabres on track. But I also have serious concerns that something about his management style - whether it's loyalty to old friends, a preference for moving slowly and methodically (at the expense, at times, of decisiveness), or something else, causes problems. Maybe it's only big egos (Marrone, Polian, Lafontaine) who can't handle that type of approach, I don't know. But it's something to keep an eye on as we embark on his first (and critical) offseason at OBD. Edited January 2, 2015 by Coach Tuesday
thebandit27 Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 This is where I come out (for now). The Sabres seem like they're in very good shape now, and Pegula should get full credit for finding an excellent GM and empowering him to do a full rebuild. And I can understand the change in approach midstream (giving Regier a chance to get it right before blowing it all up). That said, the Lafontaine incident spooks me, not so much because Patty left in a huff (he's a difficult personality), but because it is pretty clear that there are lots of undefined roles and voices running around Terry's inner circle, which seemed to cause Lafontaine to have a meltdown. I don't want a glorified booster like Batista to get his paws on the Bills - they have enough problems inside OBD. And don't forget that Ted Nolan was close to quitting a couple of months ago. I have no doubt that Terry Pegula is a brilliant businessman and that he is truly committed to getting the Bills and Sabres on track. But I also have serious concerns that something about his management style - whether it's loyalty to old friends, a preference for moving slowly and methodically (at the expense, at times, of decisiveness), or something else, causes problems. Maybe it's only big egos (Marrone, Polian, Lafontaine) who can't handle that type of approach, I don't know. But it's something to keep an eye on as we embark on his first (and critical) offseason at OBD. I may be over-stepping here, so please take no offense... Perhaps, if the above is how you feel, it's worth changing the title of your post to something that sounds less implicit. Say, "Is Terry Pegula a Competent NFL Owner Right Now?" I just think it would make posters that don't know you as well approach the subject with a more open mind, which I think was your intent in the OP. But feel free to tell me to go pound salt if I'm way off base.
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 I'm asking the question, not stating it as a fact or even an opinion. But right now, here is what we know: Marrone chose to walk away and pocket some cash instead of working for Pegula. Polian talked to Pegula about serving as a consultant, and said "no thank you" - again, all he was going to do was consult, and something turned him off about the situation. Pat Lafontaine stormed out of the Sabres' organization because something about the management structure drove him mad. Right now, there does not appear to have been any coherent plan in place for the beginning of the NFL offseason - Pegula's first as team owner. He's had several months to figure out what he wanted to do, yet it seems like he's in reactive mode to the events unfolding in front of him. Maybe there's a plan and we're not privy to it, I really don't know. But I'm starting to wonder if this guy knows how to run a sports franchise. Something about him seems to be radioactive. Again, I'm just asking the question. I guess we'll find out soon enough. He hasn't even owned the team for 3 months......
Coach Tuesday Posted January 2, 2015 Author Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) I may be over-stepping here, so please take no offense... Perhaps, if the above is how you feel, it's worth changing the title of your post to something that sounds less implicit. Say, "Is Terry Pegula a Competent NFL Owner Right Now?" I just think it would make posters that don't know you as well approach the subject with a more open mind, which I think was your intent in the OP. But feel free to tell me to go pound salt if I'm way off base. I actually tried to change it yesterday to "Does Terry Pegula Have a Plan?" but I couldn't (and still can't) figure out how to change thread titles. EDIT - I just figured out how to do a full edit. Edited January 2, 2015 by Coach Tuesday
thebandit27 Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 I actually tried to change it yesterday to "Does Terry Pegula Have a Plan?" but I couldn't (and still can't) figure out how to change thread titles. Gotcha...if you're using the full site, just go to the OP, click the "edit" button, then click "use full editor", and you should be able to do so.
jahnyc Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 When Pegula purchased the Bills, he retained one of the best and most experienced advisors for the purchase of a sports team (Greenberg from Allen & Company). I am sure that this was a very helpful part of the overall success in Pegula having the winning bid to buy the Bills. I am surprised, assuming it is true, that Pegula did not retain a consultant/advisor immediately after buying the Bills. I know it would have been potentially a bit disruptive to the organization at that time, but if Pegula had specific knowledge of the opt out or the friction among certain members of the organization, it would have made even more sense.
Coach Tuesday Posted January 2, 2015 Author Posted January 2, 2015 When Pegula purchased the Bills, he retained one of the best and most experienced advisors for the purchase of a sports team (Greenberg from Allen & Company). I am sure that this was a very helpful part of the overall success in Pegula having the winning bid to buy the Bills. I am surprised, assuming it is true, that Pegula did not retain a consultant/advisor immediately after buying the Bills. I know it would have been potentially a bit disruptive to the organization at that time, but if Pegula had specific knowledge of the opt out or the friction among certain members of the organization, it would have made even more sense. Exactly my point. The opt-out clause would've been a big due diligence item and I'd be surprised if there wasn't a plan in place to deal with its exercise. Maybe there is, maybe there isn't.
papazoid Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 marrone was advised by his agent to opt out. he tried to force an extension which failed. polian was initially asked to consult only, that changed when marrone opted out and became a rebuild.. patty tried to get ted black fired and lost a power struggle. brandon, nix and whaley are all capable of keeping the ship afloat. pegula has signaled changes are coming. patience grasshoper. it's all good. Does Terry Pegula Have A Clear Strategic Plan? why would he share his plan publicly ?? so his competition can beat him to the punch ? so fans and press can rip him a new one for not getting plan "A" accomplished in warp speed ??
GG Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) This is where I come out (for now). The Sabres seem like they're in very good shape now, and Pegula should get full credit for finding an excellent GM and empowering him to do a full rebuild. And I can understand the change in approach midstream (giving Regier a chance to get it right before blowing it all up). That said, the Lafontaine incident spooks me, not so much because Patty left in a huff (he's a difficult personality), but because it is pretty clear that there are lots of undefined roles and voices running around Terry's inner circle, which seemed to cause Lafontaine to have a meltdown. I don't want a glorified booster like Batista to get his paws on the Bills - they have enough problems inside OBD. And don't forget that Ted Nolan was close to quitting a couple of months ago. I have no doubt that Terry Pegula is a brilliant businessman and that he is truly committed to getting the Bills and Sabres on track. But I also have serious concerns that something about his management style - whether it's loyalty to old friends, a preference for moving slowly and methodically (at the expense, at times, of decisiveness), or something else, causes problems. Maybe it's only big egos (Marrone, Polian, Lafontaine) who can't handle that type of approach, I don't know. But it's something to keep an eye on as we embark on his first (and critical) offseason at OBD. In this case the methodical approach was the right one, because the last thing he should have done was put in his own guy in charge as soon as he bought the team. Gven the fragile egos and the tense working relationship between Marrone and rest of OBD, that would have surely sank the drive for the playoffs. Now, if you are questioning why he hasn't already announced an advisor, like Woody has, that may be a debatable position. But I'm not convinced that brininging in Casserly & Wolf is such a great move at this point. My hunch is that former Pegula employees - Francis & Ayrault are much more plugged into the league at this point, and I'm sure they're giving advice behind the scenes. I also don't think we should be using LaFontaine as the example. From what I heard he pulled a class one sleaze move that made Kim look foolish, and if the story is true (won't divulge more) then Pegulas were kind to him by letting him resign. we can debate on whether there are parallels between his deliberate actions immediately after buying both teams. I'd argue that at both times, it appears the right move. Both teams were on the verge, on paper. I don't blame Darcy for Leino and Reggie suddenly sucking. Yes, Pegula probably waited a bit too long to pull the cord. But when he did, the moves were very unlike to what Buffalo sports fans have been used to from their ownership groups. That's why I'm not concerned. I'll probably be frustrated next year if they waste another good defensive effort. But this team will be in a better place to compete for the long term and will finally get out of its hell hole of mediocrity. Edited January 2, 2015 by GG
thebandit27 Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 I actually tried to change it yesterday to "Does Terry Pegula Have a Plan?" but I couldn't (and still can't) figure out how to change thread titles. EDIT - I just figured out how to do a full edit. Major props for the title edit. I feel it's far more reflective of the thread content (not that anyone should care what I think).
Wayne Cubed Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 In this case the methodical approach was the right one, because the last thing he should have done was put in his own guy in charge as soon as he bought the team. Gven the fragile egos and the tense working relationship between Marrone and rest of OBD, that would have surely sank the drive for the playoffs. Now, if you are questioning why he hasn't already announced an advisor, like Woody has, that may be a debatable position. But I'm not convinced that brininging in Casserly & Wolf is such a great move at this point. My hunch is that former Pegula employees - Francis & Ayrault are much more plugged into the league at this point, and I'm sure they're giving advice behind the scenes. I also don't think we should be using LaFontaine as the example. From what I heard he pulled a class one sleaze move that made Kim look foolish, and if the story is true (won't divulge more) then Pegulas were kind to him by letting him resign. we can debate on whether there are parallels between his deliberate actions immediately after buying both teams. I'd argue that at both times, it appears the right move. Both teams were on the verge, on paper. I don't blame Darcy for Leino and Reggie suddenly sucking. Yes, Pegula probably waited a bit too long to pull the cord. But when he did, the moves were very unlike to what Buffalo sports fans have been used to from their ownership groups. That's why I'm not concerned. I'll probably be frustrated next year if they waste another good defensive effort. But this team will be in a better place to compete for the long term and will finally get out of its hell hole of mediocrity. And just look where a guy like Casserly is stearing the Jets, towards Marrone.
respk Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 This whole idea that Pegula should be front and center providing very detailed information about the Bills ongoing plan to the media and fans is just absolutely ludicrous. There is absolutely no logical reason for him to do that and if he did it would give the competition an insight into what they are doing. I sure hope he doesn't. The silence is good. Keep your plan to yourself and execute it masterfully.
Coach Tuesday Posted January 2, 2015 Author Posted January 2, 2015 This whole idea that Pegula should be front and center providing very detailed information about the Bills ongoing plan to the media and fans is just absolutely ludicrous. There is absolutely no logical reason for him to do that and if he did it would give the competition an insight into what they are doing. I sure hope he doesn't. The silence is good. Keep your plan to yourself and execute it masterfully. He doesn't have to announce what the plan is. But it would be nice to hear from him, and/or Whaley, something along these lines: "While we're disappointed that Doug Marrone chose to exercise his out clause, we've always known this was a possibility and we've been planning for this contingency. We have no doubt that the team is well-positioned for 2015 and beyond, with or without Doug Marrone."
GG Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) He doesn't have to announce what the plan is. But it would be nice to hear from him, and/or Whaley, something along these lines: "While we're disappointed that Doug Marrone chose to exercise his out clause, we've always known this was a possibility and we've been planning for this contingency. We have no doubt that the team is well-positioned for 2015 and beyond, with or without Doug Marrone." You mean like this one? "We will now begin the important process of conducting a thorough search for a new head coach as we continue to strive to reach our goal of returning to the playoffs and bringing a championship to Buffalo for our fans." Edited January 2, 2015 by GG
Coach Tuesday Posted January 2, 2015 Author Posted January 2, 2015 You mean like this one? "We will now begin the important process of conducting a thorough search for a new head coach as we continue to strive to reach our goal of returning to the playoffs and bringing a championship to Buffalo for our fans." Like that one, but less reactive-sounding. It would also be a good look to add a statement expressing confidence in Whaley.
Big Gun Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 Glad Darcy is gone but he struck gold with those guys. I always thought the draft was Darcys strong suit. He struck me more as a top scout/draft nic/better talent evaluater than he ever did a full fledged GM.
Ted William's frozen head Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 I'm asking the question, not stating it as a fact or even an opinion. I believe that we are about to witness an unprecedented golden age of major league sports in the city of Buffalo. It won't happen in the short term, but it is going to happen.
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