dave mcbride Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) I am a big believer that being a successful HC is mostly about getting players to believe in you. Marrone came in with ambitious plans for his offense and a wildly inflated-ego with regard to his ability to manage and develop QB's. Going with 3 rookie QB's and no QB coach was the height of arrogance. Then he got punched in the mouth in the second half of 2013. This year's plan was MUCH different. He was going to play not to lose to save his career. Basically, he was an utter fraud at the x's and o's. But he did succeed in getting his team to mirror his personality. That is big. The guy is a survivor. He's deliberate and cold. Men in uncertain circumstances will follow a man like that. He understood that offense can lose you more games than it can win for you. He wasn't going to turn over his fate to an empowered OC the way he did the defense. It was an ideal time for him to move on and take the lessons he learned about his own strengths and limitations and get a re-start. great post. Spiritually, he's Parcells-ian. Edited January 1, 2015 by dave mcbride
CodeMonkey Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 My opinion is he opted out because: 1) No QB. I'm pretty sure we now know his opinion of EJ Manuel. Orton leaving only made things that much worse. 2) No first round pick to use to get a QB (trade or draft). 3) Need of a every down RB (Fred is just getting too old). 4) Need of multiple OL pieces. 5) Realized he was very lucky to get this team to 9-7 so he can leave now as the coach who got the Bills over .500 for the first time in 10 years. 6) Very favorable opt-out financial conditions. 7) Issues with Whaley were apparently real. He is at his most marketable now. The Bills have significant issues to overcome and are likely not to break .500 next season (in his opinion anyway). This coupled with the favorable opt-out conditions and possible interest expressed by other teams makes his decision logical in my opinion.
beerme1 Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 Thanks for leaving Doug. Your arrogance is right up there with Scott Berchtold. Can you take him and his arrogance with you? And maybe if you end up with the Jets you will get your geography right since your a hometown boy.
Justice Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 My opinion is he opted out because: 1) No QB. I'm pretty sure we now know his opinion of EJ Manuel. Orton leaving only made things that much worse. 2) No first round pick to use to get a QB (trade or draft). 3) Need of a every down RB (Fred is just getting too old). 4) Need of multiple OL pieces. 5) Realized he was very lucky to get this team to 9-7 so he can leave now as the coach who got the Bills over .500 for the first time in 10 years. 6) Very favorable opt-out financial conditions. 7) Issues with Whaley were apparently real. He is at his most marketable now. The Bills have significant issues to overcome and are likely not to break .500 next season (in his opinion anyway). This coupled with the favorable opt-out conditions and possible interest expressed by other teams makes his decision logical in my opinion. All great points for the outsiders, but we all know better. We were lucky to beat Minny, and Detroit. CJ Spiller and Sammy Watkins weren't utilized correctly. The offensive line regressed. He punted when he should've went for it. When the season mattered most his team failed every time. Against SD, MIA, KC and worst of all OAK.
G-Daddy Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) I wonder if Doug made up his mind to opt out after that argument with Whaley and was it Russ during training camp. Wasn't the discussion about qb's? Edited January 1, 2015 by G-Daddy
dayman Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 All great points for the outsiders, but we all know better. We were lucky to beat Minny, and Detroit. CJ Spiller and Sammy Watkins weren't utilized correctly. The offensive line regressed. He punted when he should've went for it. When the season mattered most his team failed every time. Against SD, MIA, KC and worst of all OAK. Works for everyone. If I were Pegula I would wonder why the hell I have this contractual obligation to pay $4 to Doug still...and why his contract was structured so that, if he had the opportunity to get another HC job, staying in Buffalo was effectively working for free.
Big Turk Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) My opinion is he opted out because: 1) No QB. I'm pretty sure we now know his opinion of EJ Manuel. Orton leaving only made things that much worse. 2) No first round pick to use to get a QB (trade or draft). 3) Need of a every down RB (Fred is just getting too old). 4) Need of multiple OL pieces. 5) Realized he was very lucky to get this team to 9-7 so he can leave now as the coach who got the Bills over .500 for the first time in 10 years. 6) Very favorable opt-out financial conditions. 7) Issues with Whaley were apparently real. He is at his most marketable now. The Bills have significant issues to overcome and are likely not to break .500 next season (in his opinion anyway). This coupled with the favorable opt-out conditions and possible interest expressed by other teams makes his decision logical in my opinion. I'd put #6 as #1,2,3 and 4... Think about it...Marrone pocketed $4 million from the Bills, knows he is likely thought of very highly around the NFL--rightly or not---for what he accomplished in Buffalo, and knows he will likely get a team who will pay him more than he was making here, and likely a 3 or 4 year contract, which means that is an extra year or two in money he is guaranteed over what he was getting here. So now he gets our $4 million next year, plus an additional $4-4.5 million from another team. Then he will have 2 or 3 more years there under contract, so when you add it all up, he would have been guaranteed $8 million if he stayed in Buffalo, but will likely be guaranteed $18-22 million when you factor in the free $4 million from the Bills and the terms and length of his new contract... That now becomes not a $4 million decision, but a $10-14 million dollar decision...I'm pretty sure most of in his position would have done the smart business/financial/family thing and taken the extra guaranteed money...no promises in coaching---if he bombed here next year and got fired, nobody would be clamoring for him anymore around the NFL---as it is this year, he has the reputation of being a guy who goes in and turns around bad teams quickly, even with subpar QB talent, making him a rising star among NFL candidates... Edited January 1, 2015 by matter2003
Coach Tuesday Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) Works for everyone. If I were Pegula I would wonder why the hell I have this contractual obligation to pay $4 to Doug still...and why his contract was structured so that, if he had the opportunity to get another HC job, staying in Buffalo was effectively working for free. You wouldn't wonder about it, because you knew about it when you bought the team. I'm sure it came up in due diligence. Pegula knew the risk. Edited January 1, 2015 by Coach Tuesday
CodeMonkey Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 Works for everyone. If I were Pegula I would wonder why the hell I have this contractual obligation to pay $4 to Doug still...and why his contract was structured so that, if he had the opportunity to get another HC job, staying in Buffalo was effectively working for free. Exactly.
Big Turk Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) Think about it... Marrone pocketed $4 million from the Bills, knows he is likely thought of very highly around the NFL--rightly or not---for what he accomplished in Buffalo, and knows he will likely get a team who will pay him more than he was making here, and probably a 3 or 4 year contract. That means its an extra year or two in money he is guaranteed over what he was getting here. So now he gets our $4 million next year, plus an additional $4-4.5 million from another team. Then he will have 2 or 3 more years there under contract, so when you add it all up, he would have been guaranteed $8 million if he stayed in Buffalo, but will likely be guaranteed $18-22+ million when you factor in the free $4 million from the Bills and the terms and length of his new contract... That now becomes not a $4 million decision, but a $10-14+ million dollar decision...I'm pretty sure most of in his position would have done the smart business/financial/family thing and taken the extra guaranteed money...no promises in coaching---if he bombed here next year and got fired, nobody would be clamoring for him anymore around the NFL---as it is this year, he has the reputation of being a guy who goes in and turns around bad teams quickly, even with subpar QB talent, making him a rising star among NFL candidates... Just like with women---gotta strike when the iron is hot, or you lose the chance...pretty sure everyone has had a time where they found out after the fact from a friend/friend of the girl that you had the opportunity to take her home that night but because you didn't act on it, you lost out...drives you crazy and you always think about how and why you screwed it up---Marrone didn't want to be doing this if he bombed out next year and got no nibbles from any other teams---wondering about why he didn't take all the extra guaranteed money... Edited January 1, 2015 by matter2003
CodeMonkey Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 Exactly. It was just a business decision. I had no idea about the 4 mil double-dip before yesterday. Given his current marketability, he would be crazy not to opt-out unless the Bills were willing to significantly sweeten the pot. The the Bills credit, they did not agree to what they thought would be overpaying for a mediocre HC.
JPS Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 It's was a ridiculous clause for management to put in a contract. Flat out bad management. It would be equally ridiculous for Marrone NOT to take what some would consider winning the lottery for doing absolutely nothing. He could could coach. He could fish. he could golf. No stress $4 million. After thinking about it, I would question his intelligence in not taking it.
Lurker Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 Just like with women---gotta strike when the iron is hot, or you lose the chance... Bupkis. NFL and FSB college coaches make in excess of $2 million a year. Marrone was going to get paid here, there or wherever. A $4 million check is peanuts in this situation, where the lowest paid NFL HC makes $3.5 million per. Coaches aren't like players--he's only 50 and has 10-15 years of earning power left. What he gave up (reputation, credibility) was worth a lot more. If he goes to the Jests and they have a bad year, the media hordes (including national) will be ruthless and unabating, to the point his HC future may be jepordized. Not a smart move, IMO...
SDS Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 Jim Fassel was once a can't miss, hottest coach out there rehire. Never got a NFL HC job again.
Big Turk Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 Bupkis. NFL and FSB college coaches make in excess of $2 million a year. Marrone was going to get paid here, there or wherever. A $4 million check is peanuts in this situation, where the lowest paid NFL HC makes $3.5 million per. Coaches aren't like players--he's only 50 and has 10-15 years of earning power left. What he gave up (reputation, credibility) was worth a lot more. If he goes to the Jests and they have a bad year, the media hordes (including national) will be ruthless and unabating, to the point his HC future may be jepordized. Not a smart move, IMO... I'm only 39 and will be working for another 25+ years, but I think if I had the chance to get a free years salary from my current job, work somewhere else for likely more money. more power and more guarantees I'd think long and hard about it...
Doug Flutie Band Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 A $4 million check is peanuts in this situation Damn you must eat some really good peanuts.
CodeMonkey Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 Bupkis. NFL and FSB college coaches make in excess of $2 million a year. Marrone was going to get paid here, there or wherever. A $4 million check is peanuts in this situation, where the lowest paid NFL HC makes $3.5 million per. Coaches aren't like players--he's only 50 and has 10-15 years of earning power left. What he gave up (reputation, credibility) was worth a lot more. If he goes to the Jests and they have a bad year, the media hordes (including national) will be ruthless and unabating, to the point his HC future may be jepordized. Not a smart move, IMO... To me his credibility would take a bigger hit if he essentially coached next season for free by not opting out. Stupid move by the Bills agreeing to that clause in the first place.
Big Turk Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 To me his credibility would take a bigger hit if he essentially coached next season for free by not opting out. Stupid move by the Bills agreeing to that clause in the first place. Agent did a great job playing them when he knew they wanted him badly and Cleveland did too---they got in a bidding war and he probably went back and forth between the two to see how much he could get before they blinked---Cleveland blinked first and the Bills gave him what they thought they had to to get the guy they wanted at the time...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 great post. Spiritually, he's Parcells-ian. And I always wanted a Parcells-type HC. Just not the 1981 Parcells. I wanted the one that players blindly followed into battle because of his past results. I don't think Marrone was going to win here. He'd already used up most of his excuses. It's a good opportunity for both he and the Bills to do better. And fwiw, guys like Parcells haven't been winning championships. Even SB champion protege's like Coughlin and Belichick were just simply better football coaches who were able to glean some manipulating tricks from Parcells.
stony Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) My opinion is he opted out because: 1) No QB. I'm pretty sure we now know his opinion of EJ Manuel. Orton leaving only made things that much worse. 2) No first round pick to use to get a QB (trade or draft). 3) Need of a every down RB (Fred is just getting too old). 4) Need of multiple OL pieces. 5) Realized he was very lucky to get this team to 9-7 so he can leave now as the coach who got the Bills over .500 for the first time in 10 years. 6) Very favorable opt-out financial conditions. 7) Issues with Whaley were apparently real. He is at his most marketable now. The Bills have significant issues to overcome and are likely not to break .500 next season (in his opinion anyway). This coupled with the favorable opt-out conditions and possible interest expressed by other teams makes his decision logical in my opinion. I like these points, but I have a hard time wrapping my head around #2. Does he or anyone on the board here really think we were going to nab our franchise QB at 19? The media has made a big stink about this being a reason, but any QBs worth a first rounder will be long gone by the time we were going to pick. Edited January 1, 2015 by stony
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