Kelly the Dog Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 I don't get the Moore love on here. He's just not very good. 33 TD and 28 Ints in his career. Even Fitz and Orton have a better TD to Int ratio than that. I'd rather take my chances with EJ than bring this guy in. He's played on some craptastic offenses. Throws a pretty nice ball. I wouldn't mind him as a stopgap. He would have played better than Orton did this year on the Bills, although I think that Orton is a slightly better player all around.
billsfan1959 Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 Roman's rushing offenses finished in the top 8 (3 in the top 5) each of his four years in SF. We need to improve the O line and running game first. Then I would like to see what Roman can do with EJ and whoever else is on the roster this spring. I look at what he did with Alex Smith, who, IMO, is the kind of QB that fits a team with a strong defense and strong running game: 2009 (Before Roman) 11 games, completed 60 % of his passes, with 18 TDs, 12 INTs, and 81.5 Rating 2010 (Before Roman) 11 games, completed 59 % of his passes, with 14 TDs, 10 INTs, and 82.1 Rating 2011 (With Roman) 18 games, completed 61% of his passes, with 22 TDs, 5 INTs, and 92.1 Rating 2012 (With Roman) 9 games, completed 70% of his passes, with 13 TDs, 5 INTs, and 100.4 Rating Then Harbaugh decided to stay with Kaepernick after Smith was injured 2012 62% of his passes, with 14 TDs, 5 INTs, and a 99 Rating 2013 58% of his passes, with 24 TDs, 11 INTs, and a 88.7 Rating 2014 61% of his passes, with 19 TDs, 10 INTs, and a 86.4 Rating Now, Kaepernick might be the most athletic QB in the NFL; however, IMO, he has serious flaws as a pocket passer I think Roman did all right with developing young QBs. If any QBs for Buffalo, in a four year period, completed over 60% of their passes for 92 TDs, 36 INTs, and over a 90 Rating, we would be ecstatic...
Fadingpain Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 Whether you like him or not, Greg Roman and whoever we settle on for QB are going to be the 2 most important men in this organization shortly. The defense will be just fine. But there is going to be all manner of pressure on Roman and the QB. I hope Roman can surprise us with some creativity, and they can figure out a way to get a QB on board who is like 8% better than Kyle Orton, or better.
Fixxxer Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 I will admit that I was on the bash Greg Roman bandwagon fairly early in the season this year. However, in the back of my mind I wondered how it was possible for a an O coordinator to be so brilliant the previous 3 seasons with the ground and pound, mixing in the pistol, etc, to suddenly abandoning the run first mentality, especially when the passing game simply wasn't working consistently. Turns out it probably wasn't Roman losing his marbles, but rather a toxic combination of multiple factors, led by a dramatically depleted offensive line. Unless you have a hall-of-fame caliber QB, there is nothing in football that more directly creates success and failure than the quality of the offensive line. What is puzzling, however, is that knowing you have a depleted o-line, why would you shift your attack to more passing than running? Especially when your running game is still very effective? I get that early in the season you might be licking your chops with all of the receiving weapons you had compared to the year prior, plus the fact that your young QB was another year more experienced. But when the passing game stopped working about mid-season, why not pound it on the ground? Was Harbaugh overruling Roman consistently? Did he know he was gone at the end of the season and decided he was going to go down throwing? From the Kawakami article, comment section
Georgia Bill Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 Newsflash -- Fans of (insert team name) that didn't perform as well as expected are upset with (insert coach's name) who ran the (offense/defense/ST) poorly and should never be given another job in the NFL. Any team that hires (insert coach's name) is a sucker. And fans of the new team that hire (insert above coach's name) will always see them coming with rose colored glasses, and make excuses for any perceived shortcomings. Nothing unusual about any of that...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 And fans of the new team that hire (insert above coach's name) will always see them coming with rose colored glasses, and make excuses for any perceived shortcomings. Nothing unusual about any of that... Pretty much sums it up. Lets go Buffalooooooo.
217014170 Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 Greg Roman is highly thought of across the league. Many thought it was just a matter of time until he got a shot at being a HC. Harbaugh relied on him heavily and attributes a lot of his success to Roman. It is always the HC's prerogative to alter play calls as they seem fit. Some coaches sit back and make the call to go for it on 4th down and when to challenge...some intercept calls on the fly. I don't see Rex intercepting offensive play calls. It has been widely reported that he leaves the offense completely in the hands of the OC. This is where he gets himself in trouble with overall game management...game planning for the next defensive series while the offense is on the field. Think Mike Tomlin in Pittsburgh...everyone knows he is in charge but I don't think he was telling Dick Lebeau what to do on game day. I think the concept of an assistant coach operating as an administrative aid/advisor on game day would be great. Think basketball when their is an assistant coach constantly feeding data to the head coach..."we have two timeouts left...X has four fouls..." Thunk of spotters in Nascar... For Rex someone needs to be in his ear asking him on 2nd down if we are going for it on fourth down, for example. There needs to be one clear decision maker. Keeping Schwartz as DC is key to pushing Ryan to game manager. I feel he would be less likely to intervene on Schwartz and I don't see Schwartz deferring to Ryan like Dennis Thurman has in the past. There should be a dedicated channel on his headset where he can get that situational data from free from the chaos of the other channels. http://www.northjersey.com/sports/football/jets/rex-needs-bench-coach-on-sideline-1.1089528 I would not have been thrilled with Roman as the HC but I really like him as OC. Based on his (reported) relationship with Terry Pegula, he very well could be being groomed as the eventual successor to Rex Ryan (long live Rex). Whether Rex really wanted (or even had considered) Roman as his O/C, or was aggressively encouraged to endorse Roman by the owner (Ryan backed off Trestman quickly), it shows that Rex is flexible, just wants to win and be part of a collective with the same goal. It also shows that Pegula and Whaley have an organized big picture plan for the entire organization and have identified the position of HC as just a component...not the single answer to a complex equation.
Hplarrm Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 Apparently he and Ryan developed a close relationship years ago with the Ravens where Roman was asst OL coach. Getting someone with OL chops is good news in terms of the needs of our team.
JeebusCrust Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 I'll wait and see on that one... ole Dougie was supposed to be an O line guy too wasn't he? I wasn't impressed how that turned out
Not at the table Karlos Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 Romans resume doesn't impress me. But I do like his offenses in San Fran
Beerball Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 Romans resume doesn't impress me. But I do like his offenses in San Fran So, you like his offenses and he's the offensive coordinator but you aren't impressed by him?
Not at the table Karlos Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) So, you like his offenses and he's the offensive coordinator but you aren't impressed by him? yes. The years of o-line assistant and one recent year of high school OC don't impress me. But that being said I liked his offenses in San Francisco. I like offenses that establish the run. Outside of the years he worked with Harbaugh it's meh Edited January 13, 2015 by kr632
bisonbrigade Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 Will see what he can do with the offensive line. The Bills drafted some big dudes last year, hopefully he get them to work. Run the ball, with a few timely deep throws to Watkins.
8-8 Forever? Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) funny, running the ball with a few timely deep throws didn't work for the Cowboys this year. that is a model for getting to the playoffs but is no longer the model for getting to the SB. putting Seattle aside, which has everything, the other 3 teams have great QBs, relatively poor defenses, decent to non-existent run games and throw it a ton and score lots and lots of point through the air. That is the primary way you win in the playoffs in the NFL now. Go get me Jay Cutler, now. Not sure Roman as OC isn't old school ground and pound. That's a problem. Can't win the big one that way anymore. Edited January 13, 2015 by 8and8Forever
Casey D Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 funny, running the ball with a few timely deep throws didn't work for the Cowboys this year. that is a model for getting to the playoffs but is no longer the model for getting to the SB. putting Seattle aside, which has everything, the other 3 teams have great QBs, relatively poor defenses, decent to non-existent run games and throw it a ton and score lots and lots of point through the air. That is the primary way you win in the playoffs in the NFL now. Go get me Jay Cutler, now. Not sure Roman as OC isn't old school ground and pound. That's a problem. Can't win the big one that way anymore. That's funny. Jay Cutler is not a great QB, and is a horrible leader. To suggest he is anything close to any of the final four QBs is laughable-- no offense intended.
Wayne Cubed Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 funny, running the ball with a few timely deep throws didn't work for the Cowboys this year. that is a model for getting to the playoffs but is no longer the model for getting to the SB. putting Seattle aside, which has everything, the other 3 teams have great QBs, relatively poor defenses, decent to non-existent run games and throw it a ton and score lots and lots of point through the air. That is the primary way you win in the playoffs in the NFL now. Go get me Jay Cutler, now. Not sure Roman as OC isn't old school ground and pound. That's a problem. Can't win the big one that way anymore. Putting Seattle aside? They won the Super Bowl with that model. Not sure you can just put them aside if it in fact still works and can win a Super Bowl. They have everything except they pass the ball the least amount in the NFL and run the ball the most. It works.
Agent 91 Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 I'm definitely supportive of Roman coming to town as OC... The fan base in San Fran isn't the brightest due to being distracted and having to hit up the food stand regularly because of the munchies from smoking weed all morning and afternoon. The 49ers were doomed before the season began due to clashes between management and coaching staff There were leaks to the media about this all summer and continuing throughout the season creating dissention in the locker room and permeated amongst the players. The defense and O-line werent what they were and had been decimated by injuries. The QB position couldnt manage all the responsibilities required from that position in the NFL. (I wouldnt assume it JH or GR that wanted Alex Smith gone... The coaching staff can be overridden by management in some decisions.) To support my statements Ill take you into the film room If you've played or coached at any level beyond high school (and I have) then you're taught how to watch film. When watching film you don't watch the ball or the entire landscape of the play like most do while watching a game on television... Film allows coaches and players to isolate evaluate - isolate one position at a time noting the formation, down. What you're looking for are tendencies that can offer you tips or clues as to the play being run or weaknesses to exploit. Some common things youll notice are a linemans weight forward on the fingers (rear slightly raised) that could hint to a run. If the linemans weight is distributed to the heels and rear (rear slightly dropped) then you might expect draw, screen, straight drop back pass, or pull. Some others: leaning one way or the other - pull or blocking down, foot placement and footwork and so on. It's not unusual to watch one play - one position frame by frame a dozen times or more. Guys that know how to watch film and grade performance will tell you that Roman was extremely limited in the plays he could send down to the field for many reasons. Most notably, the QB position was riddled with deficiencies. Most thought Kaepernick was something he never was and wont be in the future unless youre satisfied running short dink patterns and no huddle the entire game. He was a product of other teams not having any film on him to study, and the smoke and mirrors Roman put in place to protect the kid. It's not unusual for a talented rookie to experience some level success due to limited film to study. The true test comes in year two and three these are the years that separate the men from the also-rans. If the player performs consistently through those years (Andrew Luck), remains injury free, limits off the field stupidity, and puts in classroom work that translates to the field then he has a chance to be very special. If not, he's a flash in the pan like Mike Vick. People dont have any concept of what Roman achieved. Think about it He had to insert a back-up into the most important position on the field and design an entirely new package. He designed a scheme that had NEVER been seen before in the NFL to accommodate Kaepernick in one week. Roman knew the QB position would limit his options, so he systemized the options into the offense. He did so knowing the QB would not be able to run the full package or an NFL offense, but the opposition didnt know this at least not yet An NFL QB has to be a student because hes required to do a million things in just a few seconds before the snap. Things like - pre-snap reads, adjustments, QB audible, clock management, and progression from the pocket - option 1, 2, 3, 4, outlet. If you have watched the 49ers did you notice the lack of swing passes and screens? That's because, believe it or not, those are some of the most difficult to complete for a QB. Throws Kaepernick could not consistently complete. He's not what would be considered an accurate passer, and would be hard pressed to hit Rosie O'Donnell in line at a Krispy Kreme. His release point is never consistent, his footwork is horrible, and his drops suck. He doesn't settle into the pocket, regularly puts his lineman at a disadvantage because he's not in sync with the blocking scheme called by the line. I don't need to hear them make the call when watching film to know what they called based on how they block after the snap. For those that dont know when the offense breaks the huddle and is at the line of scrimmage usually the center or one of the guards will yell out the blocking scheme. It's this call by the line that tells Kaepernick where to drop in the pocket placing him in the position where he is most likely to be protected, and it tells the RB what gap or area he needs to fill and block... However, Kaepernik regularly screws that up which is why he's one of the most sacked QB's in the NFL this year. Again, his release / delivery is a mechanical mess, he holds the ball too long, and his release is molasses. Rarely, consistent... Hit or miss. If the defense takes away the primary and secondary receiver(s) then hes lost. All the meetings, reps, and practices are thrown out of the window usually panicking or breaking contain which will eventually get him murdered... He cant progress through his "reads", and he should be able to at this stage in his career. The list goes on... The rebuttal is usually something about not using Frank Gore enough. Do you think the guy is Robo Cop? He's been running the rock in the NFL for 10 years on busted up wheels. Also, the defense wasn't what it was and the offense had to put more responsibility on the QB. When Kaepernick sh** the bed, Roman had to go conservative or risk screwing up the kid's head forever in which case Kaepernick would never come back from a lack of confidence. I would like to conclude by reminding you of the greatest calls Ive witnessed in recent years. It was the 49ers vs Saints in the playoffs a few years back This is how it read in the fish wrap the next day, "Smith ran for a 28-yard TD with 2:11 left and threw another scoring pass to Davis in the first quarter." What it didn't say was that Roman called a QB sweep pulling both guards as lead blockers!!! Are you kidding me?!?!?! There's not another OC in the NFL with the balls big enough to call that play in the biggest game since Steve Young was in town. That's the plain truth - take it or leave it. GREAT GREAT GREAT READ!!!! I am at work and am gonna ask... if you already were asked ill eventually find it. But what do you think about EJ. can he be fixed?
ddaryl Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) I'm definitely supportive of Roman coming to town as OC... The fan base in San Fran isn't the brightest due to being distracted and having to hit up the food stand regularly because of the munchies from smoking weed all morning and afternoon. and yet we have fans in Buffalo who drink themselves into a blind stupor and act like complete !@#$s. I'll take the SF pot smokers over the WNY alcoholics Edited January 13, 2015 by ddaryl
Fan in Chicago Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 I'm definitely supportive of Roman coming to town as OC... The fan base in San Fran isn't the brightest due to being distracted and having to hit up the food stand regularly because of the munchies from smoking weed all morning and afternoon. I would like to conclude by reminding you of the greatest calls I’ve witnessed in recent years. It was the 49’ers vs Saints in the playoffs a few years back… This is how it read in the fish wrap the next day, "Smith ran for a 28-yard TD with 2:11 left and threw another scoring pass to Davis in the first quarter." What it didn't say was that Roman called a QB sweep pulling both guards as lead blockers!!! Are you kidding me?!?!?! There's not another OC in the NFL with the balls big enough to call that play in the biggest game since Steve Young was in town. That's the plain truth - take it or leave it. If you wrote that entire post by yourself, I have to commend you for your writing skills and your perceptive knowledge. Welcome on board and please post more.
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