Not surprising to me that Marrone would be angry with Whaley

[Fredo G.]

I apologize but I just gotta' stop you on that point. The myth you are saying just can't be perpetuated. It's too often used as an excuse for Buddy Nix and Doug Whaley and it's just not valid.

 

There were probably dozens of other veteran QB's better qualified than Kolb. He was permanently disabled. The medical staff of the Bills should be liable for letting this guy pass a physical with a severed brain stem. That's not hindsight....the Bills themselves saw how fragile he was when they ended his actual playing career just months earlier. He never played another down in the NFL after Alex Carrington broke several bones and concussed him on a routine tackle that day in AZ.

 

Tarvaris Jackson for one was already on THE BILLS OWN ROSTER and had proven himself more capable of playing QB and doing it at a productive level in the NFL than Kolb. By A LOT.

 

What's more......if the decision to cut Fitz was made because he wasn't going to be given the chance to compete for the starting QB job....then why is it assumed that a much lesser player in Kolb was brought in to start? The whole cutting of Fitz supports the notion that Kolb was a tomato can brought in to simply be kicked over by a rookie QB.

 

On what planet was the atrocious Kolb better than the mediocre Fitz? It simply makes ZERO sense to say Kolb was brought in to start.....yet it may be true.

 

Which just points out how HORRENDOUS of a decision it was to cut Fitz/TJax and then go with KOLB. Utterly crazy-stupid. And pertinent to the discussion today as the Bills sit in much the same spot at QB now as they were then.

 

I could see if this was a Jim Plunkett-type rehabilitation project. But no. Kolb was a modest QB prospect in college who moved up a bit late in the draft process and he never even had a season in his entire NFL career where he threw for 10 TD's. It's not like the guy was a first round bust or something. That decision still ranks as one of the dumbest in Bills history. Breathtakingly stupid.

Fact.

 

Who should we have drafted that we passed on? I'll give you the first one: Russell Wilson. Other than that, who should we have taken that we passed on?

Teddy Bridgewater

[DrDawkinstein]

Teddy Bridgewater

 

Props for coming up with an actual answer, even if the jury is still out there, but the question was about the previous 6 years before EJ.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Well if he wasn't happy with that, he probably should never have agreed to be an NFL coach. This year it's kind of unique in that Chicago, Oakland, Atlanta, and SF all fired their HC and have good QB situations. Most seasons that doesn't happen, in particular with a 1st time head coach he's going to walk into a situation with a bad QB. So was Marrone likely happy, no, but I'd be surprised if he truly expected much better. And if he did want better then maybe he should have stayed in college.

 

And to the 2nd season scenario of your back up QB's regressing, well Whaley could very easily dump that on Marrone's coaching of them just as Whaley could blame the O-line issues on Marrones coaching or lack there of.

 

So yes, could see Marrone being angry at Whaleys decisions but from Whaleys view could just as easily claim these problems developed due to Marrone's poor coaching and throw it right back on him.

 

Your internet snarkiness aside, I'm sure as a head coach you would have been happy with EJ, Kolb/Lewis, and Tuel going into your rookie season, just because hey, no Manning.

[Dibs]

I would like to think that Marrone has more awareness of which QBs are/were available than the average fan......therefore he knows that there have been no viable starting FA QBs in the past 2 seasons.....therefore wouldn't hold a grudge against Whaley for being unable to obtain a good starting QB.

 

FA QBs available in 2013:

(According to WalterFootball, Bills pretty much got highest rated FA QB in 2013 http://walterfootbal...gents2013QB.php )

 

Flacco (re-signed with Ravens)

Tebow (Bad QB)

Kolb (Injury Prone)

Matt Moore (re-signed with Dolphins as backup)

Fitz (Bills wanted out of $10M/year contract)

Hasselbeck (Content to be backup in twilight of career)

Hoyer (Bombed out of CLE)

Stanton (Surprisingly showed himself to be decent backup in 2014)

J.Mccown (Showing himself to be the guy you want to replace)

Campbell, Garrard, Dixon, Jackson, Edwards, Batch, Grossman, Orlovsky, Skelton, Leftwich, Daniel, Quinn, Anderson, Leinart, Carr, Clements, Gradkowski, Thigpen, L.Mccown, Russell, J.Palmer, Hanie (All backups at best)

 

 

This Rotoworld 2014 FA QB list puts some of those 2013 FA QBs into better perspective. 3 QBs were given $5M/year deals.....Vick on a 1 year deal, Mccown & Cassel on 2 year deals. (http://www.rotoworld...nfl-free-agents )

1. Michael Vick (Signed one-year, $5M deal with NYJ)

2. Mark Sanchez (Signed one-year, $2.25M deal with PHI)

3. Josh McCown (Signed two-year, $10M deal with TB)

4. Matt Cassel (Re-signed two-year, $10M deal with MIN)

5. Josh Freeman (Signed one-year deal with NYG)

6. Shaun Hill (Signed one-year, $1.75M deal with STL)

7. Ryan Fitzpatrick (Signed two-year, $7.5M deal with HOU)

8. Jason Campbell (Signed one-year, $1.5M deal with CIN)

9. Chad Henne (Re-signed two-year, $8M deal with JAX)

10. Tarvaris Jackson (Re-signed one-year, $1.25M deal with SEA)

11. Kevin Kolb

12. Brandon Weeden (Signed two-year, $1.53M deal with DAL)

13. Colt McCoy (Signed one-year, $795K deal with WAS)

14. Matt Flynn (Re-signed one-year deal with GB)

15. Kellen Clemens (Signed two-year, $3M deal with SD)

16. Luke McCown (Re-signed one-year, $920K deal with NO)

17. Derek Anderson (Re-signed two-year, $2.564M deal with CAR)

18. David Garrard

19. Dan Orlovsky (Signed one-year, $920K deal with DET)

20. Rex Grossman

21. Curtis Painter (Re-signed one-year, $795K deal with NYG)

22. Charlie Whitehurst (Signed two-year, $4M deal with TEN)

 

 

Like most years, 2013 & 2014 had zero decent starting calabre FA QBs available.

 

In regards to 2013 drafted QBs......none ended as starters by the end of 2014.

 

It is impossible to find a diamond in the rough if there are in fact no diamonds in the rough to be found.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Dibs

[Kelly the Dog]

I would like to think that Marrone has more awareness of which QBs are/were available than the average fan......therefore he knows that there have been no viable starting FA QBs in the past 2 seasons.....therefore wouldn't hold a grudge against Whaley for being unable to obtain a good starting QB.

 

FA QBs available in 2013:

(According to WalterFootball, Bills pretty much got highest rated FA QB in 2013 http://walterfootbal...gents2013QB.php )

 

Flacco (re-signed with Ravens)

Tebow (Bad QB)

Kolb (Injury Prone)

Matt Moore (re-signed with Dolphins as backup)

Fitz (Bills wanted out of $10M/year contract)

Hasselbeck (Content to be backup in twilight of career)

Hoyer (Bombed out of CLE)

Stanton (Surprisingly showed himself to be decent backup in 2014)

J.Mccown (Showing himself to be the guy you want to replace)

Campbell, Garrard, Dixon, Jackson, Edwards, Batch, Grossman, Orlovsky, Skelton, Leftwich, Daniel, Quinn, Anderson, Leinart, Carr, Clements, Gradkowski, Thigpen, L.Mccown, Russell, J.Palmer, Hanie (All backups at best)

 

 

This Rotoworld 2014 FA QB list puts some of those 2013 FA QBs into better perspective. 3 QBs were given $5M/year deals.....Vick on a 1 year deal, Mccown & Cassel on 2 year deals. (http://www.rotoworld...nfl-free-agents )

1. Michael Vick (Signed one-year, $5M deal with NYJ)

2. Mark Sanchez (Signed one-year, $2.25M deal with PHI)

3. Josh McCown (Signed two-year, $10M deal with TB)

4. Matt Cassel (Re-signed two-year, $10M deal with MIN)

5. Josh Freeman (Signed one-year deal with NYG)

6. Shaun Hill (Signed one-year, $1.75M deal with STL)

7. Ryan Fitzpatrick (Signed two-year, $7.5M deal with HOU)

8. Jason Campbell (Signed one-year, $1.5M deal with CIN)

9. Chad Henne (Re-signed two-year, $8M deal with JAX)

10. Tarvaris Jackson (Re-signed one-year, $1.25M deal with SEA)

11. Kevin Kolb

12. Brandon Weeden (Signed two-year, $1.53M deal with DAL)

13. Colt McCoy (Signed one-year, $795K deal with WAS)

14. Matt Flynn (Re-signed one-year deal with GB)

15. Kellen Clemens (Signed two-year, $3M deal with SD)

16. Luke McCown (Re-signed one-year, $920K deal with NO)

17. Derek Anderson (Re-signed two-year, $2.564M deal with CAR)

18. David Garrard

19. Dan Orlovsky (Signed one-year, $920K deal with DET)

20. Rex Grossman

21. Curtis Painter (Re-signed one-year, $795K deal with NYG)

22. Charlie Whitehurst (Signed two-year, $4M deal with TEN)

 

 

Like most years, 2013 & 2014 had zero decent starting calabre FA QBs available.

 

In regards to 2013 drafted QBs......none ended as starters by the end of 2014.

 

It is impossible to find a diamond in the rough if there are in fact no diamonds in the rough to be found.

Thank you for putting that all together. it's not as though there was any even decent choices. Kolb I will still contend was a mistake by Whaley, simply because I don't think he was any good, plus he was terribly injury prone. The only guy who even had a chance to me was Matt Moore, and he was content to stay as a backup for 5m, so we may not even been able to get him without paying way too much.

[thewildrabbit]

To the OP story http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/305234/doug-marrone-could-opt-out-of-bills-contract

 

" ESPN's Adam Schefter believes Marrone could be the top candidate on the open market if he sets himself free. Marrone reportedly butted heads with members of the Bills' front office earlier in the year. Schefter doesn't think it's a "dead-lock clinch, an automatic thing" that Marrone returns to Buffalo."

[Agent 91]

 

I'm trying to think of anyone he gushes over.

 

Hackett lol

[Dibs]

I'm trying to think of anyone he gushes over.

 

What he does in the privacy of his own bedroom is not the concern of the fans IMO.

[BADOLBILZ]

Because they didn't want to pay him 7-8 million when they knew he wasn't going to be the answer as a starter at that point, not that he wouldn't start. At that point they didn't know who they would draft and when. They wanted him to cut it in half with incentives if he did well. He refused when the phone call came out.

 

This is why I objected to your characterization of the Kolb signing as the best they could do.

 

In reality, that is not even remotely accurate.

 

There was a clearly better option under contract......but it cost a few more million.

 

Let's hope the days of having to make excuses for that kind of mis-management over what amounts to chump change for a starting QB are over.

[mannc]

 

 

Props for coming up with an actual answer, even if the jury is still out there, but the question was about the previous 6 years before EJ.

Cousins and Foles. As well as Mettenberger and Murray this past year. And maybe McCarron.

Oops, sorry. I just noticed you were asking pre EJ.

Edited December 31, 2014 by mannc

[Kelly the Dog]

This is why I objected to your characterization of the Kolb signing as the best they could do.

 

In reality, that is not even remotely accurate.

 

There was a clearly better option under contract......but it cost a few more million.

 

Let's hope the days of having to make excuses for that kind of mis-management over what amounts to chump change for a starting QB are over.

I just don't really agree. Fitz was really horrible his last year. He looked completely shot. As bad as Kolb. He's actually returned to his 2011 form when I watch him play now. Still wildly erratic but good enough. I really thought he was shot by the end of 2012.

[3rdand12]

I'm going to go ahead and disagree in true Bill Lumbergh fashion with your take.

 

But I get why you disagree. Fair enough.

Post of the Year

Without question.

This is what the Forum should strive for. Right here. From a fellow i have considered rather grumpy at times.

well done.

[RuntheDamnBall]

I just don't really agree. Fitz was really horrible his last year. He looked completely shot. As bad as Kolb. He's actually returned to his 2011 form when I watch him play now. Still wildly erratic but good enough. I really thought he was shot by the end of 2012.

He looked pretty bad in 2013 too. I think he took some time to get back to himself after that injury.

 

It could have been bad with him here last year. I still wish we'd had him for the sake of continuity and a clearer path to developing EJ.

 

I refuse to believe like many here that Manuel never could have succeeded. But I do believe that this trajectory could be leading to the result that he is damaged goods. Good coaching early on is critical, as is a resilient personality. Fitz does have the latter and I would argue that Orton does, too, even though I believe he was protecting his health at the cost of better plays at the end of this season.

[Kelly the Dog]

He looked pretty bad in 2013 too. I think he took some time to get back to himself after that injury.

 

It could have been bad with him here last year. I still wish we'd had him for the sake of continuity and a clearer path to developing EJ.

 

I refuse to believe like many here that Manuel never could have succeeded. But I do believe that this trajectory could be leading to the result that he is damaged goods. Good coaching early on is critical, as is a resilient personality. Fitz does have the latter and I would argue that Orton does, too, even though I believe he was protecting his health at the cost of better plays at the end of this season.

Yep. Pretty much agree all around. I don't think EJ is going to be a franchise guy, but he still has a chance. As much of a chance as he did when he came here, and as much of a chance as anyone they could draft this year outside of the top two.

[JESSEFEFFER]

Is there anything that Whaley could hold against Marrone? I don't know but how about the putrid play of the offensive line and how unsettled Marrone let it become entering the season? The refusal to start Urbik when Richardson was continually whiffing on blocks. The collapse of CJ Sillers' productivity. The inability to make any use of Mike Williams while having huge issues in the red zone. Repeatedly using the "he gives us the best chance to win" line when in most of their games there was no real difference in the ability of the offense to score points or help the defense.

[BADOLBILZ]

I just don't really agree. Fitz was really horrible his last year. He looked completely shot. As bad as Kolb. He's actually returned to his 2011 form when I watch him play now. Still wildly erratic but good enough. I really thought he was shot by the end of 2012.

 

I have no idea what you are talking about. He looks like EXACTLY the same player. We saw him this season. He was Fitz at his most recognizable. Make a bunch of throws and miss a bunch of others. Make quick decisions and aid the running game. His numbers are a tick better because he doesn't have the worst defense in the league opposite him like he did that year. Kolb and Fitz are in no way comparable. Fitz was frustrating but durable and productive. He's a turnover machine but he puts TD's on the board. Kolb just never threw TD passes and got sacked like nobody's business. He was like a talentless version of Rob Johnson. He and Fitz couldn't have been much different.

[Kelly the Dog]

I have no idea what you are talking about. He looks like EXACTLY the same player. We saw him this season. He was Fitz at his most recognizable. Make a bunch of throws and miss a bunch of others. Make quick decisions and aid the running game. His numbers are a tick better because he doesn't have the worst defense in the league opposite him like he did that year. Kolb and Fitz are in no way comparable. Fitz was frustrating but durable and productive. He's a turnover machine but he puts TD's on the board. Kolb just never threw TD passes and got sacked like nobody's business. He was like a talentless version of Rob Johnson. He and Fitz couldn't have been much different.

I thought Fitz this year was the same Fitz. The last two, to me, he looked shot. It was more eyeball than stats. He put up the same or better stats in 2012 as he did in 2011 but he was way, way better in 2011. That's why they gave him a big contract that year, and cut him after the next. He just looked like he couldnt throw with any ummph when even when he was totally healthy he had to put everything he had into it. I never doubted or questioned his leadership or compete, nor did I compare his kind of play to Kolb in any way. I said he was as bad as Kolb. They both had strings of games where they looked decent. I just was never a Kolb fan even when he looked pretty good.

[dave mcbride]

 

I thought Fitz this year was the same Fitz. The last two, to me, he looked shot. It was more eyeball than stats. He put up the same or better stats in 2012 as he did in 2011 but he was way, way better in 2011. That's why they gave him a big contract that year, and cut him after the next. He just looked like he couldnt throw with any ummph when even when he was totally healthy he had to put everything he had into it. I never doubted or questioned his leadership or compete, nor did I compare his kind of play to Kolb in any way. I said he was as bad as Kolb. They both had strings of games where they looked decent. I just was never a Kolb fan even when he looked pretty good.

I thought he looked exactly the same in 2012. Defenses simply played him differently.

[BADOLBILZ]

I thought he looked exactly the same in 2012. Defenses simply played him differently.

 

It's one of the funny things about the NFL.....when players switch team, old film seems to get discounted. If you remember the last couple years Flutie was in Buffalo defenses would shut him down at will by just containing him in the pocket. Not everyone would do it, but bad teams could come into Buffalo...not rush the passer....and make Flutie ineffective. People forget that they lost home games to losing Raider and Giants teams in 1999 otherwise they would have had homefield advantage. And yet.......Flutie goes to SD and suddenly has a renaissance season where teams chase him around and open up the field for big plays for him. He crashed back to earth but it was uncanny how teams just didn't pay attention to his film. Fitz jumping to two different teams has boosted him a bit. Maybe he's back here next year.