Rubes Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Lots of rumors that Marrone and Whaley aren't getting along. I haven't seen any confirmation, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me if Marrone is pissed at Whaley. Think about it: Marrone is hired to coach a team that had been lousy for many years, with not a huge amount of talent on either side of the ball. There are questions about ownership hanging over everything like a black cloud. And, above all else, the team has no franchise player at the game's most important position. He knows he has three years, at best, to turn the ship around, and this is his one big shot to be an NFL head coach. If he flames out here, he won't likely get another shot. So what happens? Whaley reaches and gets him a questionable QB in the first round, which means there will be pressure to have him play. They need a veteran QB for security, but Whaley gets him a dud in Kolb, who can't make it past preseason. So now Marrone goes into the first season of his one big chance at NFL head coach with a questionable rookie QB, a barely serviceable backup QB who has no time to learn the offense because he was signed so late, and another rookie QB who really shouldn't be playing against professionals. They enter the season with huge questions at the game's most important position. That's a recipe for failure, and I'm sure Marrone puts most of the blame for that on Whaley. So they go into the second season of his one big chance at NFL head coach with the same three guys, and guess what? They still aren't very good. The questionable first-round QB still doesn't excel, and the barely serviceable backup QB regresses and is dumped late in the preseason. Whaley sifts through the garbage heap and comes up empty. Then, right before the season begins, he desperately signs a historically mediocre veteran out of "retirement" as a safety measure, who has no time to learn the offense because he was signed so late. There are signs of tension and shouting between Marrone and management, but who could blame him? They enter the season with huge questions at the game's most important position. Things are so bad, the safety measure who barely knows the offense is starting at QB a quarter of the way through the season. Now the historically mediocre veteran QB is retired, and Marrone is looking at the third season of his one big chance at NFL head coach with only two QBs on the roster -- the questionable first-rounder, who he doesn't have a lot of confidence in, and the third stringer who still shouldn't be playing against professionals. He's looking at yet another season with huge questions at the game's most important position. His three years will be up soon, and in that time Whaley has done him no favors at the QB position. In fact, the only favor he did was to get him a backup-quality QB who wouldn't even stick around more than one season. Twice now, Marrone has had to field QB's who had little experience in the offensive system because they weren't around for minicamp or training camp. Sure, finding a franchise QB is tough. But yeah, if I was Marrone I wouldn't be too happy with Whaley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 It's hard to win in the NFL. Who was Marrone going to get at QB that would have made him "happy?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Every HC worries about the talent the FO will bring him. It goes with the job. At least Whaley & Nix got Marrone a lot of talent on the D side of the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 So basically you're saying the HC had absolutely no input whatsoever on the draft and FA's brought in, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Lots of rumors that Marrone and Whaley aren't getting along. I haven't seen any confirmation, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me if Marrone is pissed at Whaley. Think about it: Marrone is hired to coach a team that had been lousy for many years, with not a huge amount of talent on either side of the ball. There are questions about ownership hanging over everything like a black cloud. And, above all else, the team has no franchise player at the game's most important position. He knows he has three years, at best, to turn the ship around, and this is his one big shot to be an NFL head coach. If he flames out here, he won't likely get another shot. So what happens? Whaley reaches and gets him a questionable QB in the first round, which means there will be pressure to have him play. They need a veteran QB for security, but Whaley gets him a dud in Kolb, who can't make it past preseason. So now Marrone goes into the first season of his one big chance at NFL head coach with a questionable rookie QB, a barely serviceable backup QB who has no time to learn the offense because he was signed so late, and another rookie QB who really shouldn't be playing against professionals. They enter the season with huge questions at the game's most important position. That's a recipe for failure, and I'm sure Marrone puts most of the blame for that on Whaley. So they go into the second season of his one big chance at NFL head coach with the same three guys, and guess what? They still aren't very good. The questionable first-round QB still doesn't excel, and the barely serviceable backup QB regresses and is dumped late in the preseason. Whaley sifts through the garbage heap and comes up empty. Then, right before the season begins, he desperately signs a historically mediocre veteran out of "retirement" as a safety measure, who has no time to learn the offense because he was signed so late. There are signs of tension and shouting between Marrone and management, but who could blame him? They enter the season with huge questions at the game's most important position. Things are so bad, the safety measure who barely knows the offense is starting at QB a quarter of the way through the season. Now the historically mediocre veteran QB is retired, and Marrone is looking at the third season of his one big chance at NFL head coach with only two QBs on the roster -- the questionable first-rounder, who he doesn't have a lot of confidence in, and the third stringer who still shouldn't be playing against professionals. He's looking at yet another season with huge questions at the game's most important position. His three years will be up soon, and in that time Whaley has done him no favors at the QB position. In fact, the only favor he did was to get him a backup-quality QB who wouldn't even stick around more than one season. Twice now, Marrone has had to field QB's who had little experience in the offensive system because they weren't around for minicamp or training camp. Sure, finding a franchise QB is tough. But yeah, if I was Marrone I wouldn't be too happy with Whaley. Good post. I wonder if there was any debate about Manuel vs. Nassib prior to the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 This stuff about Marrone not being on board with the EJ pick is nuts. It was clear Marrone wanted no part of Nassib. He got the guy he wanted--can't pin this on Whaley alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 It's hard to win in the NFL. Who was Marrone going to get at QB that would have made him "happy?" No fair asking that question! It is only fashionable to point out that they don't have Manning, Brady, Rodgers or Brees - no solutions required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Here is how I see those same events. Marrone and Whaley started out on basically the same page. I had heard that Marrone was not Whaley's first choice, Wisenhunt was, but that may or may not enter into any of this. Marrone said Nassib was not good enough or they would have taken him, but told Whaley get me the QB with the best tools and potential, and Nate and I can mold him. They were likely in agreement on EJ being the best to work with and most potential regardless of how much each thought of him. Geno was the only other possible choice. Kolb was brought in to start. And EJ to sit. There weren't any better options really as far as veterans go although I never liked Kolb at all. It's not like there was a lot of choice. EJ beat Kolb out and then Kolb got hurt. For some unknown reason, Marrone also fell in love with Tuel and thought he could mold him like he did Nassib. Tuel was always a Marrone guy not a Whaley guy. When Kolb was done they had to get a vet and Whaley got Thad, with Marrone insisting Tuel can play. EJ got hurt again and Thad played better than expected but not good. Tuel was horrible but Marrone still liked him as a development guy. In the off season, Whaley and Marrone both looked at all the available veterans around, EJs potential, Thad's serviceability, and EJ's fragile ego, and decided together that it's not the best situation but there isn't an obvious choice for veteran starter or even backup. Vick is about the only one and he wants to start. The Bucs promised McKown he would start. So we are better off not threatening Ej, making him the starter, and working with Thad, as a backup. We won two games with him. He's a gamer. And Marrone insisted he could develop Tuel. It wasn't perfect but I think they both agreed on that. During OTAs and training camp, both Thad and Tuel regressed. When the preseason started, Whaley pulled the plug and went hard after Orton, who was never going to sign with anyone until the eve of the season. They signed Palmer when Thad went from bad to worse. It's possible then that Marrone said you're kidding me, but I think the Bills probably knew it was a good chance the Thursday ending the preseason, that they would get Orton, because it was the best chance that he would play. EJ faltered. Marrone was convinced and probably right that Orton gave him the best chance to win, and started playing Orton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 This stuff about Marrone not being on board with the EJ pick is nuts. It was clear Marrone wanted no part of Nassib. He got the guy he wanted--can't pin this on Whaley alone. Is there actually any evidence about this? My recollection is that Whaley was the guy in Manuel's corner. I'm not saying Marrone wasn't, but I've never seen any report about him gushing over Manuel during the draft and post-draft processes. Here is how I see those same events. Marrone and Whaley started out on basically the same page. I had heard that Marrone was not Whaley's first choice, Wisenhunt was, but that may or may not enter into any of this. Marrone said Nassib was not good enough or they would have taken him, but told Whaley get me the QB with the best tools and potential, and Nate and I can mold him. They were likely in agreement on EJ being the best to work with and most potential regardless of how much each thought of him. Geno was the only other possible choice. Kolb was brought in to start. And EJ to sit. There weren't any better options really as far as veterans go although I never liked Kolb at all. It's not like there was a lot of choice. EJ beat Kolb out and then Kolb got hurt. For some unknown reason, Marrone also fell in love with Tuel and thought he could mold him like he did Nassib. Tuel was always a Marrone guy not a Whaley guy. When Kolb was done they had to get a vet and Whaley got Thad, with Marrone insisting Tuel can play. EJ got hurt again and Thad played better than expected but not good. Tuel was horrible but Marrone still liked him as a development guy. In the off season, Whaley and Marrone both looked at all the available veterans around, EJs potential, Thad's serviceability, and EJ's fragile ego, and decided together that it's not the best situation but there isn't an obvious choice for veteran starter or even backup. Vick is about the only one and he wants to start. The Bucs promised McKown he would start. So we are better off not threatening Ej, making him the starter, and working with Thad, as a backup. We won two games with him. He's a gamer. And Marrone insisted he could develop Tuel. It wasn't perfect but I think they both agreed on that. During OTAs and training camp, both Thad and Tuel regressed. When the preseason started, Whaley pulled the plug and went hard after Orton, who was never going to sign with anyone until the eve of the season. They signed Palmer when Thad went from bad to worse. It's possible then that Marrone said you're kidding me, but I think the Bills probably knew it was a good chance the Thursday ending the preseason, that they would get Orton, because it was the best chance that he would play. EJ faltered. Marrone was convinced and probably right that Orton gave him the best chance to win, and started playing Orton. Is this informed speculation or just speculation? I'm not knocking you if it's the latter; I'm just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 gushing I'm trying to think of anyone he gushes over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Is there actually any evidence about this? My recollection is that Whaley was the guy in Manuel's corner. I'm not saying Marrone wasn't, but I've never seen any report about him gushing over Manuel during the draft and post-draft processes. Is this informed speculation or just speculation? I'm not knocking you if it's the latter; I'm just curious. I heard from very reliable source that brandon and nix wanted Marrone and Whaley wanted Wisenhunt, knowing him from his Pittsburgh days. I know from very good source that Tuel was always a Marrone guy. Whaley said some of this scenario in the presser, especially about Thad regressing. I know that Orton was not going to sign with anyone before the season started and the Bills went hard after him in July through August. Both Marrone and Whaley said publicly they thought it was better not to challenge Ej with a veteran starter after last year. The rest was putting two and two together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Is there actually any evidence about this? My recollection is that Whaley was the guy in Manuel's corner. I'm not saying Marrone wasn't, but I've never seen any report about him gushing over Manuel during the draft and post-draft processes. Is this informed speculation or just speculation? I'm not knocking you if it's the latter; I'm just curious. You need a link to Marrone gushing over EJ? Why?? You think Marrone wanted soeone else and pouted in the corner as Whaley made the pick? Come on! This makes no sense. The Bills were going all in with a new coachingstaff and they were taking a QB no matter who was available. Marrone was in on this pick and there is simply no reason to believe he wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 This stuff about Marrone not being on board with the EJ pick is nuts. It was clear Marrone wanted no part of Nassib. He got the guy he wanted--can't pin this on Whaley alone. Yup. Also, Nix was still in the room at that time. I think EJ was a consensus pick. It may not turn out to be the right one, and Marrone may be giving up on him sooner than others in the org are, but I can't believe the idea that he was "saddled" with the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted December 30, 2014 Author Share Posted December 30, 2014 No fair asking that question! It is only fashionable to point out that they don't have Manning, Brady, Rodgers or Brees - no solutions required. Your internet snarkiness aside, I'm sure as a head coach you would have been happy with EJ, Kolb/Lewis, and Tuel going into your rookie season, just because hey, no Manning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) Anyone who thinks Marrone didn't have a say in the QBs they brought in including drafting EJ simply isnt paying attention. It's not like Whaley is picking these guys on his own and forcing them on Marrone. Any tension between the two is most likely a power play from Marrone and his ego which is well documented. It would not surprise me one bit if Marrone isn't using his 3 day window to force the Bills hand for a new contract and more power. Edited December 30, 2014 by Max997 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted December 30, 2014 Author Share Posted December 30, 2014 I heard from very reliable source that brandon and nix wanted Marrone and Whaley wanted Wisenhunt, knowing him from his Pittsburgh days. I know from very good source that Tuel was always a Marrone guy. Whaley said some of this scenario in the presser, especially about Thad regressing. I know that Orton was not going to sign with anyone before the season started and the Bills went hard after him in July through August. Both Marrone and Whaley said publicly they thought it was better not to challenge Ej with a veteran starter after last year. The rest was putting two and two together. I think that sounds pretty reasonable, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 You need a link to Marrone gushing over EJ? Why?? You think Marrone wanted soeone else and pouted in the corner as Whaley made the pick? Come on! This makes no sense. The Bills were going all in with a new coachingstaff and they were taking a QB no matter who was available. Marrone was in on this pick and there is simply no reason to believe he wasn't. Dude, why the hostility? Seriously. I heard from very reliable source that brandon and nix wanted Marrone and Whaley wanted Wisenhunt, knowing him from his Pittsburgh days. I know from very good source that Tuel was always a Marrone guy. Whaley said some of this scenario in the presser, especially about Thad regressing. I know that Orton was not going to sign with anyone before the season started and the Bills went hard after him in July through August. Both Marrone and Whaley said publicly they thought it was better not to challenge Ej with a veteran starter after last year. The rest was putting two and two together. OK; thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Your internet snarkiness aside, I'm sure as a head coach you would have been happy with EJ, Kolb/Lewis, and Tuel going into your rookie season, just because hey, no Manning. Seriously, who would you, or Marrone be happier with as far as available vets and rookies to draft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) Whaley didn't hire Marrone. Marrone is close to Brandon, who did have the most say in hiring him. Heck, before the Oakland game, Brandon was talking to Marrone in the fieldhouse while the former was in shorts and a sweatshirt. This conflict is the product of the team president deciding on a HC and not the GM, who should have the say given that much of his success or failure is the determined by that HC. And people wonder why the franchise can't get it right for 15 years. Edited December 30, 2014 by BillsVet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Whaley didn't hire Marrone. Marrone is close to Brandon, who did have the most say in hiring him. Heck, before the Oakland game, Brandon was talking to Marrone while the former was in shorts and a sweatshirt. This conflict is the product of Brandon deciding on a HC and not the GM, who should have the say given that his success or failure is the determined. Not the team president who is apparently out of the football side of the house. Nix was still the GM. All three of them, plus Overdorf had their say. I imagine, of the three, that it was Nix who made the call. It's easy to imagine that amongst four guys, and the choices, which were basically Marrone and Wisenhunt and 1-2 others (but not Kelly or any of the big names), that there was no clear consensus. It would be much more surprising that all four agreed on one guy than it would be that 2 or 3 liked one slightly and 1 or 2 liked another slightly more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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