TSOL Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) Id trade Jerry Hughes for Winston, not Dareus though. Pretty much the only player in the NFL id trade Dareus for would be Luck. I do love the unlikely trade scenarios game. Edited December 31, 2014 by mastershake
pimp on da' net Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 He said he would trade Marcel Dareus, next year's first and our 1st pick this year for the #1 overall pick this year, in which he would pick Jamies Winston. But the Sammy trade was too risky ... When I heard that this morning I "literally laughed out loud"...Man, these guys on WGR are literally stealing money. And he's the "trained eye" expert...SMH!
vincec Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 Andrew Luck coming out of college, yes. Jameis Winston, hell no. My thoughts as well. Winston is just not that sure a thing to bet the house on.
ExWNYer Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 Joe B is a huge FSU fan so not surprising he would suggest such ridiculousness. Marcel is the most important player on the Bills and Winston is going to be a disaster to whoever drafts him I used to like Joe B, especially his draft analysis. But the more I hear him, the more arrogant and condescending he seems. It's like he thinks he's better than he is. As for his trade proposal, gimme a break. No way would I trade away the best player on the team for an unproven commodity with huge off-the-field concerns. Let alone throw in a 1 & a 2 on top of it. He's not Andrew Luck. If he were, I'd do it no questions asked. For Winston? Not a chance in hell.
The Bunk Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 I used to like Joe B, especially his draft analysis. But the more I hear him, the more arrogant and condescending he seems. It's like he thinks he's better than he is. As for his trade proposal, gimme a break. No way would I trade away the best player on the team for an unproven commodity with huge off-the-field concerns. Let alone throw in a 1 & a 2 on top of it. He's not Andrew Luck. If he were, I'd do it no questions asked. For Winston? Not a chance in hell. Some scouts have said he's on that same level as Luck, just with the obvious questions about his maturity. I wouldn't give up the world for him, but i'd certainly make an offer if the #1 or #2 pick were available. You CAN'T win in this league without a QB, Dareus and maybe a few guys on that defense had career years and Buffalo still topped out at 9-7. The Colts roster isn't as good top to bottom compared to Buffalo's and they're better because they have a QB. Same goes for a few teams who made the playoffs, lots of these teams have holes, but they also have a QB who can win you a game himself. Buffalo hasn't had one since Kelly. Winston is a tremendous prospect and i'd certainly be interested in him if it was possible. We should all be.
The Dean Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 Some scouts have said he's on that same level as Luck, just with the obvious questions about his maturity. Which instantly makes him on a different level than Luck. When Luck came out nearly EVERY analyst said he was gold. I can't think of one who remarked they would not touch him in the first round. Can you say the same for Winston? See---not nearly the same. Luck was "a Luck" because he was very good, NFL ready and SAFE. Plus you never trade away that much for one guy. What if he gets horribly injured in the first year? Now you re out the player, your great player and two first round picks. A seriously idiotic suggestion.
ExWNYer Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) Some scouts have said he's on that same level as Luck, just with the obvious questions about his maturity. I wouldn't give up the world for him, but i'd certainly make an offer if the #1 or #2 pick were available. You CAN'T win in this league without a QB, Dareus and maybe a few guys on that defense had career years and Buffalo still topped out at 9-7. The Colts roster isn't as good top to bottom compared to Buffalo's and they're better because they have a QB. Same goes for a few teams who made the playoffs, lots of these teams have holes, but they also have a QB who can win you a game himself. Buffalo hasn't had one since Kelly. Winston is a tremendous prospect and i'd certainly be interested in him if it was possible. We should all be. No "we" shouldn't. Speak for yourself. Which instantly makes him on a different level than Luck. When Luck came out nearly EVERY analyst said he was gold. I can't think of one who remarked they would not touch him in the first round. Can you say the same for Winston? See---not nearly the same. Luck was "a Luck" because he was very good, NFL ready and SAFE. Plus you never trade away that much for one guy. What if he gets horribly injured in the first year? Now you re out the player, your great player and two first round picks. A seriously idiotic suggestion. And this is why "we" shouldn't. Thanks, Dean. Winston has serious red flags, Luck didn't. Winston is not a consensus first overall pick. Luck was. There is no comparison. Winston can't hold Luck's jock. Edited December 31, 2014 by ExWNYer
Gordio Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 See above. They're actually not alike. He is a traditional pocket passer with one of the best arms you'll see. As for accuracy, he had a WHIP of 0.76 last year as a pitcher in an elite conference, and that is just sensational: http://www.thebaseba...=jameis-winston . He tops out at 94-95 mph, by the way, and that would give him the strongest arm in the league (Kaep topped out at 91). I'm not advocating drafting Winston at all -- I know he has a ton of problems. But he's a great QB who possesses all of the tools--phenomenal arm, good accuracy, an ability to quickly read complex defenses, and a winner. Agreed, for someone to question is arm strength tell me that person has never watched Winston play. This guy has got a cannon & like you said is also a pitcher on one of the top baseball teams in the country. Arm strength/accuracy are the least of your worries when it comes to Winston. If he could keep his head on straight he is going to be a good one.
stony Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 The Luck, Winston comparison is ridiculous IMO. Same player, just a maturity question...hmmm. Wasn't that the same thing they once said about Manning and Leaf?
Gordio Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 I agree about Winston being a big, big risk, think you're putting too much stock in numbers. Winston runs a more complex offense and is asked to do more. He pushes the ball downfield with NFL-type tight-window throws more than EJ ever did, as far as I can see. Basically, he's a lot better than EJ was in college. Bingo. To compare EJ's career to Winston's at FSU is ludicrous. You could tell by the difference in Fisher's offense when EJ was under center compare to Jameis that Fisher has 10xs more confidence in Winston then he ever did in Manuel. Sounds like Pete is just another disgruntled fan of the U.
YoloinOhio Posted December 31, 2014 Author Posted December 31, 2014 Braxton Miller is in Tallahassee today meeting with FSU (not sure who is there since they play in Pasadena tomorrow) about transferring and taking over for Winston next year.
KOKBILLS Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 Some scouts have said he's on that same level as Luck Those scouts better have a plan B career-wise... I'm no Winston-basher...But I would say he more favorably compares to Cam Newton...The Luck comparison is ridiculous and unfair to Winston...Luck is the best QB prospect to come out since Peyton Manning...
FloridaSnow Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) Since there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about Winston's abilities on the field, here's a Sports Illustrated article by Peter King that provides an in-depth breakdown of his skill set. It's a really good read and delves into the off field issues as well: http://mmqb.si.com/2014/12/23/jameis-winston-nfl-prospect-florida-state/# Edited December 31, 2014 by fallen627
dave mcbride Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) Those scouts better have a plan B career-wise... I'm no Winston-basher...But I would say he more favorably compares to Cam Newton...The Luck comparison is ridiculous and unfair to Winston...Luck is the best QB prospect to come out since Peyton Manning... Totally disagree about the Newton comparison. Newton didn't play in a pro-style offense in which he had to throw to spots; he threw to open players or ran it. And Winston is as accurate (and perhaps more so) than Luck. Like I said above, if you have a WHIP of 0.76 in an elite conference in pressure situations (saves), you don't have an accuracy problem. You not only have control, you have command of location. As you probably know, that is hard to find in baseball, a sport that requires far more precision and mechanical excellence than football when it comes to throwing. Again, I'm not saying he's going to be better than Luck because Luck is awfully smart (degree in architectural design from Stanford) and mature. But in terms of the accuracy and the complexity of plays, he's far closer to Luck than to Newton. Since there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about Winston's abilities on the field, here's a Sports Illustrated article by Peter King that provides an in-depth breakdown of his skill set. It's a really good read and delves into the off field issues as well: http://mmqb.si.com/2...florida-state/# I've linked to this story twice in this thread. Edited December 31, 2014 by dave mcbride
The Dean Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 I've linked to this story twice in this thread. I did get to read that story yesterday, Dave. Very good account. But it didn't change my opinion on Winston one bit. I tend to watch a lot of FSU ball (my nieces went there and my brother in law is a huge fan). I've seen much of what people like about Winston. I have also seen him make some God-awful decisions and throws. Way worse than what I ever saw from EJ. I'm not saying EJ has as much raw talent as Winston, but I think he was smarter with the ball. I would have loved for that article to also have included break-down of a horrendous decision and/or throw (or quarter of those poor decisions) by Winston as a point-counterpoint comparison.
KOKBILLS Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) Totally disagree about the Newton comparison. Newton didn't play in a pro-style offense in which he had to throw to spots; he threw to open players or ran it. And Winston is as accurate (and perhaps more so) than Luck. Like I said above, if you have a WHIP of 0.76 in an elite conference in pressure situations (saves), you don't have an accuracy problem. You not only have control, you have command of location. As you probably know, that is hard to find in baseball, a sport that requires far more precision and mechanical excellence than football when it comes to throwing. Again, I'm not saying he's going to be better than Luck because is awfully smart (degree in architectural design from Stanford) and mature. But in terms of the accuracy and the complexity of plays, he's far closer to Luck than to Newton. I've linked to this story twice in this thread. I should say I'm a HUGE Cam Newton fan...So believe me I'm not trying to knock Winston when I make that comparison...It's a compliment... I realize they were different College QB's...I really do understand the differences...I understand that Winston played in a more complex Offense in College than Cam did...I get that...I also understand he's a very good QB prospect...But I do think physically he's WAY more Newton than Luck...I think (and it's nothing more than my opinion) that had Newton gone to FSU and played in that system he would have had similar success to Winston...I think Cam can do anything he wants to do...And it's not like it's a bash on Winston to compare him to another #1 overall QB...I just see very similar athletes in Winston and Newton...And once Cam came to the NFL he proved pretty quickly that he could fling it... And it's the cerebral part you spoke of, not to mention the out-of-this-world work ethic that Luck has, that clearly separates him from Winston...I love Winston as a prospect based solely on his ability between the lines...But all the other stuff with him has me incredibly concerned and doubting very much he'll ever be an Andrew Luck-type of NFL QB...I do however think if he stays out of trouble that he will be a Cam Newton type of NFL QB...And that's pretty darn good btw... Edited December 31, 2014 by KOKBILLS
dave mcbride Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 I should say I'm a HUGE Cam Newton fan...So believe me I'm not trying to knock Winston when I make that comparison...It's a compliment... I realize they were different College QB's...I really do understand the differences...I understand that Winston played in a more complex Offense in College than Cam did...I get that...I also understand he's a very good QB prospect...But I do think physically he's WAY more Newton than Luck...I think (and it's nothing more than my opinion) that had Newton gone to FSU and played in that system he would have had similar success to Winston...I think Cam can do anything he wants to do...And it's not like it's a bash on Winston to compare him to another #1 overall QB...I just see very similar athletes in Winston and Newton...And once Cam came to the NFL he proved pretty quickly that he could fling it... And it's the cerebral part you spoke of, not to mention the out-of-this-world work ethic that Luck has, that clearly separates him from Winston...I love Winston as a prospect based solely on his ability between the lines...But all the other stuff with him has me incredibly concerned and doubting very much he'll ever be an Andrew Luck-type of NFL QB...I do however think if he stays out of trouble that he will be a Cam Newton type of NFL QB...And that's pretty darn good btw... Good points. Cam Newton is a very good NFL QB. He has flaws, but he has major strengths too.
peterpan Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 We could probably just draft him with our second round pick
bananathumb Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 Rank the football knowledge of GR "personalities": Joe B is barely above Simple Sal.
The Bunk Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 Which instantly makes him on a different level than Luck. When Luck came out nearly EVERY analyst said he was gold. I can't think of one who remarked they would not touch him in the first round. Can you say the same for Winston? See---not nearly the same. Luck was "a Luck" because he was very good, NFL ready and SAFE. Plus you never trade away that much for one guy. What if he gets horribly injured in the first year? Now you re out the player, your great player and two first round picks. A seriously idiotic suggestion. Which NFL GM said they'd never draft Winston in the first round? The talking heads like McShay and Kiper might have said it, but then two weeks later he's back in their top 10. That's a joke. What scouts mean is in regards to the physical and mental tools exhibited on the field Winston stacks up to Luck, he has the red flags but he's not sliding out of the first round, probably not the top 5. And i agree, you can't give the farm for someone, i'm sure the Redskins regret giving up everything they did for RG III.
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