dave mcbride Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 Makes you wonder if that is his legit opinion or one meant to generate reaction. He's the real deal, PTR. The evidence is there. The issue is the off-the-field stuff, which is of course real and worrying.
Dibs Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 that is why the trade was possible for RG3 but not Luck, IMO And even then I doubt the Rams would have made the trade had they not been shackled by massive contract to Bradford.
Bagel Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 A few years ago Joe B said that he preferred Matt Barkley to Andrew Luck as a prospect "because he has a better arm." Seems like a nice guy, but I don't particularly value his football acumen.
YoloinOhio Posted December 30, 2014 Author Posted December 30, 2014 I wonder if the fact that Manziel promised to change and then failed to do so will negatively affect Winston in this draft. More than any position the character piece is critical with the face of the franchise QB.
dave mcbride Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 Further evidence that Joe B ain't making it up: http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2015jwinston.php . Read to the end. I wonder if the fact that Manziel promised to change and then failed to do so will negatively affect Winston in this draft. More than any position the character piece is critical with the face of the franchise QB. Perhaps, but Winston has never been criticized for laziness or unwillingness to do the work. He's been criticized for being a felon, which he may well be.
YoloinOhio Posted December 30, 2014 Author Posted December 30, 2014 Has Winston even declared? Further evidence that Joe B ain't making it up: http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2015jwinston.php . Read to the end. Perhaps, but Winston has never been criticized for laziness or unwillingness to do the work. He's been criticized for being a felon, which he may well be. right - I just meant character red flags in general
34-78-83 Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 right - I'm not disputing the kid's talent and if they had the #1 pick free and clear I could understand using it on him and hoping he matures off the field. Considering our options at that position are slim. That would be worth the risk. But trading arguably your best player at age 24 and next year's 1st rd pick?! Joe B was once a potential breath of fresh air on that station but has unfortunately fallen to contradicting himself and spending too much time praising analytics theories and making them his football bible.
Wayne Cubed Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 Further evidence that Joe B ain't making it up: http://walterfootbal...015jwinston.php . Read to the end. Perhaps, but Winston has never been criticized for laziness or unwillingness to do the work. He's been criticized for being a felon, which he may well be. I don't think anyone is questioning Winston's ability as a QB. He's very talented. But Joe is talking about trading a known NFL talent in Dareus along with a 1st and a 2nd for an unknown NFL talent in Winston, with some serious character issues.
dave mcbride Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 Has Winston even declared? He hasn't yet, but he's coming out. I've always been curious if he's seriously considered the MLB draft. He'd get drafted in the early rounds given his ability and excellent performance for the Noles this past season. I don't think anyone is questioning Winston's ability as a QB. He's very talented. But Joe is talking about trading a known NFL talent in Dareus along with a 1st and a 2nd for an unknown NFL talent in Winston, with some serious character issues. Good points, but there are a lot of folks here questioning his ability, even going so far as to compare him to EJ (which is ridiculous). One poster even said that there were questions about his arm strength, which is laughable if you know anything about Winston.
Wayne Cubed Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 He hasn't yet, but he's coming out. I've always been curious if he's seriously considered the MLB draft. He'd get drafted in the early rounds given his ability and excellent performance for the Noles this past season. Good points, but there are a lot of folks here questioning his ability, even going so far as to compare him to EJ (which is ridiculous). One poster even said that there were questions about his arm strength, which is laughable if you know anything about Winston. Well to that point, those posters are wrong. The guy is talented, very talented. Its the character issues teams will be worried about. If he gets arrested or whatever that type of trade would blow up in a GM's face.
34-78-83 Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 I don't think anyone is questioning Winston's ability as a QB. He's very talented. But Joe is talking about trading a known NFL talent in Dareus along with a 1st and a 2nd for an unknown NFL talent in Winston, with some serious character issues. Right. All that ... But in contrast, Joe B said that the Watkins trade was too risky. That's the contradiction being pointed out. (for clarity - not just for you )
dave mcbride Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 Right. All that ... But in contrast, Joe B said that the Watkins trade was too risky. That's the contradiction being pointed out. (for clarity - not just for you ) Not defending Joe B's trade scenario (which won't happen anyway), but one player is a QB and one isn't. An elite QB is worth 3 of Marcel Dareus, sad to say.
34-78-83 Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 Not defending Joe B's trade scenario (which won't happen anyway), but one player is a QB and one isn't. An elite QB is worth 3 of Marcel Dareus, sad to say. Can't argue with that
Heels20X6 Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 Cam Newton had a ton of question marks about his character coming out of the draft too. Now saying that, I think he's been an average QB at best and I see Winston's career having a similar trajectory. Strong arm, mobile, good, but not great. I.e. Not worth trading up and giving up what Joe B is saying we should trade. Dareus is already an all-pro.
YoloinOhio Posted December 30, 2014 Author Posted December 30, 2014 Not defending Joe B's trade scenario (which won't happen anyway), but one player is a QB and one isn't. An elite QB is worth 3 of Marcel Dareus, sad to say. i agree with that and that's why if it was for a proven guy - I will throw Matt Ryan out there as an example - I could see it
dave mcbride Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 Cam Newton had a ton of question marks about his character coming out of the draft too. Now saying that, I think he's been an average QB at best and I see Winston's career having a similar trajectory. Strong arm, mobile, good, but not great. I.e. Not worth trading up and giving up what Joe B is saying we should trade. Dareus is already an all-pro. Newton played in a very simple offense that allowed to tuck the ball and run a lot. Winston plays in a pro-style offense that depends on him throwing to spots as opposed to receivers. He's markedly more accurate than Newton too (not that Newton is wild), and he doesn't tuck and run nearly as much as Newton.
BillsVet Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) Joe B was once a potential breath of fresh air on that station but has unfortunately fallen to contradicting himself and spending too much time praising analytics theories and making them his football bible. I found it interesting that GR began using Sal Capaccio for their sideline reports on gameday. I thought that was Joe B.'s thing, but apparently he's been shifted toward being an "insider" who reviews All-22 film. Joe B. does what many "insiders" do to maintain their reputation. They make few bold predictions and provide analysis that allows them room to maneuver. That said, he seems like a nice enough guy, but I would think he'd be more than just analytics and tossing softballs to Bills people. Of course, consider that GR wants to maintain the radio contract and isn't going to attack their partner, who could always take the contract away. Edited December 30, 2014 by BillsVet
Wayne Cubed Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 Not defending Joe B's trade scenario (which won't happen anyway), but one player is a QB and one isn't. An elite QB is worth 3 of Marcel Dareus, sad to say. Can't argue with that if so long as that QB is a proven elite QB.
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