Doug Flutie Band Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 A kid cannot become the starting quarterback at Florida State without God-given ability. He has huge potential. Charlie Ward Chris Weinke Drew Weatherford Casey Weldon Chris Rix Danny Kannell Christian Ponder I don't think FSU has ever had one single quarterback go on to have a good NFL career.
Hazed and Amuzed Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 Manuel thinks too much, I think that has to do with the way he's coached. The best chance EJ has is a new OC, someone that'll let the kid just play an not think. I'll take the two min drill EJ as my starting QB any day of the week.
Alaska Darin Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 There are so many factors that go into an individual player being successful and that is most true about the QB position. Frankly I think EJ has about a 10% chance of ever being "that guy" and only some of it is based on him. He really needs to work on his accuracy and ability to scan the field - both of those things can be improved through hard work. Do I think it will happen? No, because those things have plagued him since he's been a player and he's shown little progress.
Ted William's frozen head Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 I think he's ready to become a star. He's raised the bar on his game considerably.-Tic-Tac-Toe, that is..
Buffalo Boy Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 I wouldn't use that video to showcase him. So many wide open receivers and so much time to throw. Kinda like Brady, for a decade. Put him against the Giants pass rush and suddenly Tom Terrific maybe doesn't look quite so good. Unlike Orton , he didn't chuck a bunch of indiscriminate passes to the other team. Again, Watt made the whole O team look like a bunch of fools. Doug"I'm an offensive lineman/Offensive guru" couldn't figure how to protect the poor bastard from that pass rush and blame the rookie QB? EJ's gonna suck next year too... Especially if hackett is still in as OC... We are 100% BONED as long as Nate hackett has anything to do with our offense. Testify, my brother. I tend to agree. I don't know where this "ALL rookie QBs are capable of being starters day 1 in the NFL, despite 30 years of history to the contrary...because...that's the way the game is now" came from. This is crap. For literally years we've known that a rookie QBs place is on the bench, precisely so he can learn/develop. We also know that it takes ~3 years for most WRs to truly learn their craft. Now, suddenly all that wisdom, based on real world outcomes for decades, goes out the window? Worse, ALL of the players that have been citied to support this nonsense? Their play has refuted the entire notion. Even Andrew Luck has been struggling, and if Indy was in our division, and we in theirs? We would own that division. Awesome points!!! How are RG3, Kapernick, Bortles, Newton etc doing? Here in Charlotte they have repeatedly called for Cams head?! This country(And all fan bases) lack patience and foresight. Be ready to suck then, regardless... if EJ is the starting QB in 2015, we are screwed. He doesn't have the propensity to learn from his mistakes or to correct his inaccurate throws. That's why Marrone gave up on him and didn't start him in New England... HE KNOWS EJ will not get much better... and that kind of honesty is what we need, not false hope in a bum. Just like he knows how to coach up an offense....? Remember Drew Brees in San Diego. He started in his first couple years, on and off, and was TERRIBLY inconsistent. They got River's and traded Brees away. Anyone could have had him, including the Bills and Sean Payton is heralded as brilliant for taking him.....because the 1st and 2nd year QB was an inconsistent suck fest. I'm not calling EJ Brees, just making the point that all of you who are SO positive that EJ can't play need to chill. Especially those of you who thought Orton was a legitimate starter and of any obvious value= Delusional.
RichVP Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) The funny thing I find is the lack of understanding to the plan to begin with and how we royally screwed this young man in his first year. EJ was touted as the highest ceiling among quarterbacks in a poor class. It was fairly known that at least one other team had him highly rated. Possibly even first round and the team most connected was Philadelphia. I never heard anyone say, prior to the draft, he was ready to play as a rookie. He was supposed to sit for a year if not two to refine his mechanics and footwork as well as learn the speed of the pro game and differences from college. I had a huge issue with this coaching staff for not having a quarterbacks coach during his rookie season. How you can decide to forgo that coaching position when you have a raw rookie that you just spent a first round pick on and is supposed to become the face of your franchise is beyond me. The reason touted, of not wanting anything lost in translation between Hackett and the quarterbacks, was reasonable but in no way important enough to stunt the learning of your franchise quarterback. The plan was to have EJ sit behind an injury prone journeyman quarterback was also foolish. If it worked to plan it may have been beneficial but that plan has a high likelihood of the skipper crash and burning and thrusting poor EJ to the fire prematurely. Then EJ has an injury plagued rookie season in which he is not able to get into any sort of routine and it was evident. He had a few good games but many more ineffective rookie mistake filled games. This year it seemed EJ did progress. He looked good to start. We started 2-0 with a good defense and strong running game behind a sub par o-line. The next two games our running game disappeared. Our o-line lost Williams who wasn't great but was still better than anything that replaced him for the rest of the season. EJ was overwhelmed. He was being coached to play risk free. And he was getting pressure from our turnstile of guards on a lot of drop backs quicker than he should had. Our genius of an offensive coordinator had him throw 39 times and 44 times in those two subsequent losses. We never should have put him in that position. Him being benched and being able to develop his mechanics and footwork as well as his benching teaching him that sometimes he has to let it go regardless of risk and trust himself is probably the best thing for him. As a Bills fan I can only hope he's learned and improved because if he does reach his potential then we have a franchise quarterback. If he doesn't show improvement then there's many more factors than just EJ we can point to that may have contributed to his failure. And this offensive coaching staffs hubris of trying to do too much to begin with could be front and center. For that alone I wouldn't mind seeing Hackett gone. Edit: Should not post from an Android at 6:50am after waking up. Corrected typos! Sorry! Edited December 30, 2014 by RichVP
vorpma Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 A kid cannot become the starting quarterback at Florida State without God-given ability. He has huge potential. He was not afforded the learning curve of most first year quarterbacks. Check out the stats of Elway, Manning, Aikman as rookies. Aikman was 1-15, right? Our quarterback rose to the top of the college ranks. He was MVP of the Senior Bowl. That's where I first noticed him. He threw a TD pass to somebody, and I thought, man, this kid is a natural. So we trade out of #8, pick up Manuel and Kiko, and EJ is thrust into the starting role on a young growing team. He struggled, but he had some really good games. The second year he had us at .500. He had a rough game against Houston and that crazy MVP candidate JJ Watt. Who didn't struggle against that guy? Marrone pulled him, and turned it over to Kyle. He gave us the best chance to win. And we finished 9-7. EJ got to watch this all happen from a great vantage point. And I think he was humbled by the whole thing. Did he lose his athletic ability? His intelligence? His determination? No. If anything, he has developed a major chip on his shoulder. Look at that video. He has the goods. I am not giving up on EJ Manuel. I think he's ready to become a star. Post again December 2015!
mannc Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 Charlie Ward Chris Weinke Drew Weatherford Casey Weldon Chris Rix Danny Kannell Christian Ponder I don't think FSU has ever had one single quarterback go on to have a good NFL career. So Jameis Winston will be a bust, too?
Hazed and Amuzed Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 So Jameis Winston will be a bust, too? Ummm yes of course. It's science.
mannc Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) As unimpressive as EJ was this year (including his dreadful preseason), he might just be our best hope. There is not going to be a Brees or Manning available in the trade or FA market and the draft does not look to have great depth at QB. EJ has a lot of physical talent and can be accurate and careful with the football. He probably still has more upside than anyone else we are likely to acquire in the offseason. The problem is that it seems like EJ is dead to Marrone. I just have the feeling Marrone has written EJ off for some reason and that he might not get another chance here. It might be part of the power struggle with Whaley, or something we aren't privy to. Anyway, unless the offensive line is fixed and Hackett is shown the door, it probably doesn't matter who our QB is. Edited December 30, 2014 by mannc
Agent 91 Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 yeah he really struggled vs JJ Watt by throwing the ball right to him The rest isn't even worth a response Yep exactly. Except he isn't the only one who threw it right to him this year. Also it doesn't matter that the line let watt and co do whatever they wanted. Great post with tons of insight
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 If your QB starts from day 1 you can't coach him to not take the risky throw. If you have to do that then he should be sitting and learning. I think it was the plan til he outperformed Kolb. Then they had no choice. But gave him a crap oline and no running game. The recipe for disaster for a young QB. I'm willing to give him a shot. But it better be with a Foles or Nassib or Derek Anderson or Matt Moore and the rookie we're sure to draft. My draft will look something like: QB/Center/Guard/QB/Guard/RB/Guard I don't know that we want a second round QB - we may, but it depends on who's there. But everything else you posted is spot-on.
FloridaSnow Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) I'm sorry, but did you watch Manuel play at FSU? He was a profound disappointment for us FSU fans, and the narrative on him hasn't changed: he's a great kid with all the tools and for some reason can't bring it all together. FSU lost in big moments with him at the helm despite a significant talent advantage. Since he departed, the Seminoles have won a national championship and haven't lost a game... Winston, for all of his faults, is an example of what having an NFL-caliber QB can do for a franchise. Edit: with all of that being said, I do hope things work out. He's a great guy with a lot of potential, but counting all of the seasons I watched him in Tallahassee, I'm about to enter year 6 hoping things will click for him. Edited December 30, 2014 by fallen627
SouthernMan Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 Throwing all the measurable s out the window, the thing I see in star quarterbacks is that "eye of the tiger" winner, ultra-competitive mentality. You just have to look at successful QBs like Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Manning, Wilson, Rothlisberger, Elway, Kelly, Marino, etc - they have a noticeable swagger and look of leadership. They show great confidence and it's contagious to the team. Obviously, they had to have the physical, mental, and visual skills to partner with that character trait, but I defy you to name a successful NFL QB that has " all the physical tools", but was missing that key ingredient. The NFL QB trash heap is littered with physical specimens that didn't have the leadership gene. Few QBs in NFL history have had the physical gifts of Jeff George, but he didn't have what it took to be a team leader and get the most out of the players around him. That brings us back to EJ Manuel. From the little I've seen of him, I don't sense that he has the personality that oozes confidence and inspires teammates. Seems like a nice enough guy, intelligent, and certainly has some of the necessary attributes, but does he have the charisma, ability to lead, and same fire in his eyes top QBs display? I don't think so. Unfortunately, those QBs are a rare find and Manuel may be the best the Bills can expect in 2015 unless they get lucky. They's have to find the right guy who is just blossoming and fits in the NFL mold and falls under the radar in the draft - a Tom Brady miracle is what they need. Maybe the Bills need to put more emphasis on their prospect's psychology to determine if he's "got it".
fridge Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 I'm sorry, but did you watch Maneul play at FSU? He was a profound disappointment for us FSU fans, and the narrative on him hasn't changed: he's a great kid with all the tools and for some reason can't bring it all together. I thought the narrative was that he won 4 bowl games?
mattsox Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 A kid cannot become the starting quarterback at Florida State without God-given ability. He has huge potential. He was not afforded the learning curve of most first year quarterbacks. Check out the stats of Elway, Manning, Aikman as rookies. Aikman was 1-15, right? Our quarterback rose to the top of the college ranks. He was MVP of the Senior Bowl. That's where I first noticed him. He threw a TD pass to somebody, and I thought, man, this kid is a natural. So we trade out of #8, pick up Manuel and Kiko, and EJ is thrust into the starting role on a young growing team. He struggled, but he had some really good games. The second year he had us at .500. He had a rough game against Houston and that crazy MVP candidate JJ Watt. Who didn't struggle against that guy? Marrone pulled him, and turned it over to Kyle. He gave us the best chance to win. And we finished 9-7. EJ got to watch this all happen from a great vantage point. And I think he was humbled by the whole thing. Did he lose his athletic ability? His intelligence? His determination? No. If anything, he has developed a major chip on his shoulder. Look at that video. He has the goods. I am not giving up on EJ Manuel. I think he's ready to become a star. The guy can't play NFL Football. Get over it already!!!! Throw him on the pile with the Tebows, Glennons, and Russell's of the world.
Big Turk Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) Here are the main issues: 1) His accuracy by today's NFL standards is very poor. Average QBs complete 62-63% of passes, good 64-65% and great 66%+. EJ consistently is between 57-58% and that's not going to get it done. Accuracy is also perhaps one of the things that cannot be improved upon with a QB. Even Orton for as many throws as he missed and as poor as he played was over 64% 2) He misses wide open receivers and when he sees them, many times the balls are uncatchable...this goes back to point #1 Until these two things are greatly improved on, it doesn't matter what else he does, he will not be successful. Edited December 30, 2014 by matter2003
CountDorkula Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 Ummm yes of course. It's science. We should draft that guy from Tennessee. He will be good because Manning.
FloridaSnow Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 I thought the narrative was that he won 4 bowl games? Ha! Yeah, four meaningless scrimmage games... P.S. I get that you're being sarcastic, but the whole concept that bowl games mean anything (outside of the playoff) drives me crazy.
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