JESSEFEFFER Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Consider this play: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000402069/Morris-intercepts-Manuel It was EJ's last play of 2014. Every time I see a flag for a defender grabbing a jersey, I think of this. In hockey it's obstruction. In basketball it's a blocking foul. Here it's illegal contact evolving into pass interference that occurs over a 15 yard span. Robert Woods sees the ball and the defender never looks. It was the worst no call of the Bills' season, imo. What's my point? In a game where EJ is hit 18 times, 9 by Watt (2 of which were illegal) but only takes only 2 sacks and has 5 passes dropped the Bills were this no call away from having a legit red zone possession to take the lead in a game they lost by 6 points. I do not think Kyle Orton could have stood up to that pressure. We would have seen a record number of turtle maneuvers. Yeah, EJ struggled. But he was not the disaster some try to make him out to be. His rookie season production was on par with Joe Flacco's (who, ironically, had a similar game against the Texans this year.) I would like to think that being put on the shelf for the last 12 games of his 2nd season could do him some good but I do not really trust this coaching staff to make it so. If anything maybe it could change his onfield demeanor from ultra cautious to being more agressive/assertive. Top myths of EJs 2nd season. Running out-of-bounds play was a zone read option. Eric Wood was blocking down field and there was no pass to be made. He would have had to know how much he would ultimately lose vs. an inelligible receiver downfield penalty. The ball thrown to Sammy on the dig route against SD that came in at Sammy's shoe tops was tipped by Kendall Reyes who was driving Pears right into EJs lap. In the Texan's game, Sammy stumbled over a defender's legs as he made the break, with the ball already released, on the deep cross where he could only get one hand on the ball. When a defender stumbles like that in coverage, he is likely to be beat by a step or two. Why point these out? Some EJ detractors wanted to hold these as superior evidence about some perceived EJ flaws. In the court of TSW, I say these were not evidence of anything of the sort and the jury should disregard them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 A kid cannot become the starting quarterback at Florida State without God-given ability. He has huge potential. He was not afforded the learning curve of most first year quarterbacks. Check out the stats of Elway, Manning, Aikman as rookies. Aikman was 1-15, right? Our quarterback rose to the top of the college ranks. He was MVP of the Senior Bowl. That's where I first noticed him. He threw a TD pass to somebody, and I thought, man, this kid is a natural. So we trade out of #8, pick up Manuel and Kiko, and EJ is thrust into the starting role on a young growing team. He struggled, but he had some really good games. The second year he had us at .500. He had a rough game against Houston and that crazy MVP candidate JJ Watt. Who didn't struggle against that guy? Marrone pulled him, and turned it over to Kyle. He gave us the best chance to win. And we finished 9-7. EJ got to watch this all happen from a great vantage point. And I think he was humbled by the whole thing. Did he lose his athletic ability? His intelligence? His determination? No. If anything, he has developed a major chip on his shoulder. Look at that video. He has the goods. I am not giving up on EJ Manuel. I think he's ready to become a star. My thought coming in was that he is going to need quite a few years. He is a very slow learner. He played in and won 4 bowl games at Florida State.....and yet he arrived in the NFL with terrible mechanics. Jameis Winston starts as a freshman and looks like Tom Brady mechanically compared to EJ. If a coach can reach one dude that fast but not another in 4 years......ehhh. I have compared him to Phil Simms as a prospect. It's going to take a while but when it comes together he could be a very good, very heady, ball protecting QB. A more modern equivalent might be Alex Smith. But I sincerely doubt it will happen in time for him to save this current staff. I'll be shocked if he is good next year. He looked miles away after they made him run a more deliberate, pro-style offense this year. Just plain lost compared to the uptempo stuff that simplified the game for him in 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 My thought coming in was that he is going to need quite a few years. He is a very slow learner. He played in and won 4 bowl games at Florida State.....and yet he arrived in the NFL with terrible mechanics. Jameis Winston starts as a freshman and looks like Tom Brady mechanically compared to EJ. If a coach can reach one dude that fast but not another in 4 years......ehhh. I have compared him to Phil Simms as a prospect. It's going to take a while but when it comes together he could be a very good, very heady, ball protecting QB. A more modern equivalent might be Alex Smith. But I sincerely doubt it will happen in time for him to save this current staff. I'll be shocked if he is good next year. He looked miles away after they made him run a more deliberate, pro-style offense this year. Just plain lost compared to the uptempo stuff that simplified the game for him in 2013. what do you think of Ponder Bado? I recall Gailey liked him a lot coming out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 what do you think of Ponder Bado? I recall Gailey liked him a lot coming out. I think he is damaged goods. Very fragile and prone to getting hit at the same time. Guys that get beat up like him turn into paycheck collectors. He's a better passer than EJ but not as good of a prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) Consider this play: http://www.nfl.com/v...tercepts-Manuel It was EJ's last play of 2014. Every time I see a flag for a defender grabbing a jersey, I think of this. In hockey it's obstruction. In basketball it's a blocking foul. Here it's illegal contact evolving into pass interference that occurs over a 15 yard span. Robert Woods sees the ball and the defender never looks. It was the worst no call of the Bills' season, imo. That really is ugly. The defender is pushing Woods back for about 5 yards, with the ball in the air, and Woods would have been right where the ball was if he hadn't been impeded. For all the complaints about EJM, I believe that he can be at least a notch better than Orton next season. They have no other option really. Edited December 31, 2014 by HoF Watkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Greg Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Comparisons to Drew Brees, hoping EJ is the franchise in the making... in all honesty, what's more likely: this romantic scenario, or that the Buffalo Bills, in their desperation to find a quarterback, knowing that they had missed so badly as recently as two years earlier, reached to grab something, anything, and that anything turned out to be a bust? I'm as hopeful as anyone, and I'll cheer like hell for whoever quarterbacks the Buffalo Bills... but these last 15 years have made me slightly skeptical of anything being "the next great thing" or "the answer" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 I think it's most likely that he will get a bit better, and possibly become a guy that can win with a good surrounding cast, and an OC that fit an offense to his strengths. An offense in the top half the league would do pretty well with this defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 I think he is damaged goods. Very fragile and prone to getting hit at the same time. Guys that get beat up like him turn into paycheck collectors. He's a better passer than EJ but not as good of a prospect. thanks, sounds a bit like Trent Edwards. He was never the same after taking that hit in AZ(?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 EJ sucks (ranked outside the top 32). at best, his upside is mediocre (around 20th). thats not good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 We shall see. Marrone does have a win-now tendency, which means EJ sits until he demonstrates on the practice field 100% mastery of the position. That could be awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 That really is ugly. They defender is pushing Woods back for about 5 yards, with the ball in the air, and Woods would have been right where the ball was if he hadn't been impeded. For all the complaints about EJM, I believe that he can be at least a notch better than Orton next season. They have no other option really. There's no basis to believe EJM can be better next year than Orton was this year. Orton's numbers were better across the board - and in some categories, substantially better (like comp % and yds/attempt). At this point, I'd just take a continuation of EJM's rookie season (minus the injuries) b/c he looked worse off this season than he did his rookie season. I believe EJM should get a full opportunity next season to win the job and start again - I'm just not confident he'll do well though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) There's no basis to believe EJM can be better next year than Orton was this year. Orton's numbers were better across the board - and in some categories, substantially better (like comp % and yds/attempt). At this point, I'd just take a continuation of EJM's rookie season (minus the injuries) b/c he looked worse off this season than he did his rookie season. I believe EJM should get a full opportunity next season to win the job and start again - I'm just not confident he'll do well though. I'm basing my opinion on the fact that guys don't usually peak at the 14th game in their 2nd season, and he wasn't that far behind Orton. He might continue to suck, but if improvements are made to the line, even an average running game is developed, and an offense is designed to his strengths (like it is for most successful QB's), I can easily see him surpassing Orton's play. Edited December 31, 2014 by HoF Watkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 I'm basing my opinion on the fact that guys don't usually peak at the 14th game in their 2nd season, and he wasn't that far behind Orton. He might continue to suck, but if improvements are made to the line, even an average running game is developed, and an offense is designed to his strengths (like it is for most successful QB's), I can easily see him surpassing Orton's play. Who was the offense designed for, if not for EJ? NH and Marrone came here together. EJ was their guy. I don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Who was the offense designed for, if not for EJ? NH and Marrone came here together. EJ was their guy. I don't get it. Yeah, but they changed it for this season. When they dropped the hurry-up, it allowed defenses to make more substitutions and more complex calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) Yeah, but they changed it for this season. When they dropped the hurry-up, it allowed defenses to make more substitutions and more complex calls. I recognize that NH started also calling many more pass plays this year than last but there was obviously a disconnect between EJ and the HC/OC and it can't all be on the HC/OC. Fact is, EJ was grossly inaccurate and had issues reading the field, and those are two problems that are hard to fix. I'm not a NH fan at all, but EJ was their guy so we can't argue that we need to develop a gameplan for him b/c that goes without saying. Maybe the more difficult reality to swallow is that EJ can't perform to the level that's required to execute at the NFL level. We'll see (I agree 14 games isn't enough, I'm just not hopeful). Edited December 31, 2014 by bobobonators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BmarvB Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) A kid cannot become the starting quarterback at Florida State without God-given ability. He has huge potential. He was not afforded the learning curve of most first year quarterbacks. Check out the stats of Elway, Manning, Aikman as rookies. Aikman was 1-15, right? Our quarterback rose to the top of the college ranks. He was MVP of the Senior Bowl. That's where I first noticed him. He threw a TD pass to somebody, and I thought, man, this kid is a natural. So we trade out of #8, pick up Manuel and Kiko, and EJ is thrust into the starting role on a young growing team. He struggled, but he had some really good games. The second year he had us at .500. He had a rough game against Houston and that crazy MVP candidate JJ Watt. Who didn't struggle against that guy? Marrone pulled him, and turned it over to Kyle. He gave us the best chance to win. And we finished 9-7. EJ got to watch this all happen from a great vantage point. And I think he was humbled by the whole thing. Did he lose his athletic ability? His intelligence? His determination? No. If anything, he has developed a major chip on his shoulder. Look at that video. He has the goods. I am not giving up on EJ Manuel. I think he's ready to become a star. I agree with you. Not all QB's are going to come out of college and be Andrew Luck. Most do take time to develop. The original plan for EJ - which was the correct one, was to have him sit, watch, and learn from a veteran first. He didn't get that in his first year, he got it this year. We'll see how far he's progressed next season. We still need another vet in here as both insurance and a mentor to him, but I still have faith in EJ. I hope he proves the doubters wrong in a big way! Edited December 31, 2014 by BmarvB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 sitting could be the best thing to happen to him, hopefully Orton showed him how to prepare. I'm not a huge believer in you had to play to coach but the one position I don't think you can really help unless you have is qb coach. I have seen lots of footage of Orton not seeing plenty of wide open receivers, with plenty of time to throw. EJM can, at the very least, be better than Orton. haha not on this years team you haven't...shut off wgr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Yeah, but they changed it for this season. When they dropped the hurry-up, it allowed defenses to make more substitutions and more complex calls. I thought we hated the hurry-up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 I thought we hated the hurry-up? Not me. haha not on this years team you haven't...shut off wgr There is plenty of proof just on "All-22" alone. I don't listen to WGR, I live in California. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonbrigade Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 You just have to EJ this, 1. if Watkins is open throw ball to him so he can catch it. 2. if Watkins covered throw ball to Woods so he can catch it. 3. If both are covered throw ball to Watkins anyhow he will catch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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