1B4IDie Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) You know what would be awesome? Marrone Opting out. You know why? We already have the next Head Coach. I'm sure this may have been pointed out up thread but Marrone opting out would be a god send. Schwartz becomes HC. He promotes one of his all star Defensive coaching staff to DC. Marrone and his little buddy Natie can go off to New York, Atlanta, or Chicago and Schwartz can hire a real OC like Trestman. The more I think of this, the more I can't wait to see an alert "Doug Morrone has opted out of his 2015 contract with the Buffalo Bills" A boy can dream . . . Edited December 30, 2014 by Why So Serious?
Fadingpain Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 If he is going to opt out, he needs to hurry up and do it. Clock it ticking on that.
CodeMonkey Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 The difference is that now, the Bills job is a lot better to other coaches than it used to be. There will no longer be salary restraints on the HC or especially assistants. There is tremendous more stability. There is no longer any worry that he wouldn't be able to keep players he wanted. The facilities and travel will improve. The cupboard is far from bare, and has one of the best defenses already in place. There is a lot to like about the Buffalo job despite the QB factor. What?? The only thing that makes any sense here is the bolded.
Kelly the Dog Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 What?? The only thing that makes any sense here is the bolded. Then you know nothing about Pegula or the way the Bills did business before.
thebandit27 Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 What?? The only thing that makes any sense here is the bolded. Then you know nothing about Pegula or the way the Bills did business before. I think CodeMonkey simply misunderstood...Kelly is saying that all of those are different from when Ralph was running the show.
Kelly the Dog Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 I think CodeMonkey simply misunderstood...Kelly is saying that all of those are different from when Ralph was running the show. Yes. Not sure how that could have been misunderstood, but thanks.
CodeMonkey Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) Then you know nothing about Pegula or the way the Bills did business before. I think CodeMonkey simply misunderstood...Kelly is saying that all of those are different from when Ralph was running the show. Yes. Not sure how that could have been misunderstood, but thanks. I didn't misunderstand. I am very familiar with how Pegula has run the Sabres so far. There obviously will be salary constraints, perhaps less restrictive than under previous ownership but Pegula almost certainly will not overspend. There is no reason to believe having this new owner, who undoubtedly will keep the team in Buffalo, is going to help resigning players or luring top players to Buffalo. The NFL is a business first, to players and owners alike. One 9-7 record in 15 years, albeit a good first baby step, is not the superbowl or close to it. Facilities and travel, really? And last but not least, downplaying the QB issue is ludicrous. It is a HUGE glaring problem, now more prominent with Ortons retirement and no first round pick in the upcoming draft to either use or barter with. Well, the cupboard is far from bare I suppose due to defense, special teams, and Watkins, so that statement is true as well. But I find the majority of that post to make no sense at least to me. Now if Manuel suddenly becomes a NFL QB, then the cupboard is not only not bare, but it becomes pretty damn full. But Manuel is far from there at the moment, IMO. Edited December 30, 2014 by CodeMonkey
Kelly the Dog Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 I didn't misunderstand. I am very familiar with how Pegula has run the Sabres so far. There obviously will be salary constraints, perhaps less restrictive than under previous ownership but Pegula almost certainly will not overspend. There is no reason to believe having this new owner, who undoubtedly will keep the team in Buffalo, is going to help resigning players or luring top players to Buffalo. The NFL is a business first, to players and owners alike. One 9-7 record in 15 years, albeit a good first baby step, is not the superbowl or close to it. Facilities and travel, really? And last but not least, downplaying the QB issue is ludicrous. It is a HUGE glaring problem, now more prominent with Ortons retirement and no first round pick in the upcoming draft to either use or barter with. Well, the cupboard is far from bare I suppose due to defense, special teams, and Watkins, so that statement is true as well. But I find the majority of that post to make no sense at least to me. Now if Manuel suddenly becomes a NFL QB, then the cupboard is not only not bare, but it becomes pretty damn full. But Manuel is far from there at the moment, IMO. One of the reasons the Bills couldn't attract top coaches was because of the owner, who wouldn't spend for top coaches, and especially was against top pay for assistants. That was pretty well known. That is gone. He clearly and immediately showed he would overpay for players on the Sabres, with the first several contracts he gave out. He also upgraded the facilities which had an immediate impact on free agents wanting to sign here and keeping the players happy. The sabres used to stay at good hotels on the road, they now stay at five star hotels, which is a minor thing but an indicator of how things will change and that kind of stuff does matter to players. There was always a long term stability issue with the Bills staying, and playing in Toronto, and the owner in his 90s which was an obvious factor for luring coaches and free agents. That is gone. There was always a feeling around the league that the Bills would sometimes pay high salaries but that they let a lot of their own players go because they did not want to spend top dollar. I didn't have a problem with most of those decisions but that problem no longer exists. We have a ton of money, an owner who just spent 400 million more than he had to for the team because he doesn't care about spending money and has way more than he can ever spend. The team has a load of young and experienced talent. It's clearly on the upswing. I wasn't at all minimizing the QB issue, it's a huge one but it's well known and no reason to bring it up in this particular issue. The new ownership is going to have a huge effect on drawing top coaches here. Last year there was no chance that Chip Kelly was going to come here. If that same scenario were to be this year, with the Pegulas, I would bet anything they would have made a strong push and he would have considered it strongly.
CodeMonkey Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) I guess maybe its just me, but I fail to see what impact the Bills staying and Toronto issues would have on signing players or coaches. What difference does it make really where they spend 6 months of their year. Plus is the city of Buffalo a big draw versus a larger market to 20-something millionaire players? Overpaying for players is a negative in these salary cap days. I would hope Mr. Pegula would have learned that from the Sabres with Vanek and others. Coaches and assistants are a different matter. Interesting theory about Chip Kelly. He could have molded the offense to his liking and inherit a good defense, that should have appealed to him under Mr. Wilson or Mr. Pegula. I suspect the tipping point was more based on the QB situation. Basically Philly having at least a decent one and the Bills not, that drove his decision more so than ownership, what either team was willing to pay (which almost had to have been comparable), what city the team was playing in or if that locale would change. As others have pointed out, if you are in desperate need of a starting QB now, you are in deep ****. But we will never know I suppose. Edited December 30, 2014 by CodeMonkey
QB Bills Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 You know what would be awesome? Marrone Opting out. You know why? We already have the next Head Coach. I'm sure this may have been pointed out up thread but Marrone opting out would be a god send. Schwartz becomes HC. He promotes one of his all star Defensive coaching staff to DC. Marrone and his little buddy Natie can go off to New York, Atlanta, or Chicago and Schwartz can hire a real OC like Trestman. The more I think of this, the more I can't wait to see an alert "Doug Morrone has opted out of his 2015 contract with the Buffalo Bills" A boy can dream . . . I'm praying this happens too. I keep checking here and on twitter hoping to see it.
BADOLBILZ Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 You know what would be awesome? Marrone Opting out. You know why? We already have the next Head Coach. I'm sure this may have been pointed out up thread but Marrone opting out would be a god send. Schwartz becomes HC. He promotes one of his all star Defensive coaching staff to DC. Marrone and his little buddy Natie can go off to New York, Atlanta, or Chicago and Schwartz can hire a real OC like Trestman. The more I think of this, the more I can't wait to see an alert "Doug Morrone has opted out of his 2015 contract with the Buffalo Bills" A boy can dream . . . Hey, it would be a good way to get a jumpstart in the 2-3 year process of firing Schwartz! I'd put Marrone's chances of surviving as Bills HC past next season at less than 50% right now. Schwartz is the type of re-tread, proven loser as a HC who would gladly take a job without the promise of a good QB and his candidacy only gets stronger as long as he is here and his D stays solid. I think you could switch coaches this year and NOT hire Schwartz but very likely still retain him as DC. Next year, I bet he would quit if Marrone was fired and he wasn't the replacement. His dues are accruing daily.
1billsfan Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 Is it weird that Pegula hasn't spoken yet? I think it's very telling that Marrone hasn't given his answer yet regarding his opting out and the owner hasn't yet spoken up since the season ended. When both parties are this unsure going forward then something is up I would think. I wouldn't mind Schwartz becoming our head coach at this point, I definitely don't want Marrone back.
Canadian Bills Fan Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 Does the owner usually speak at the end of the year? I thought the GM does all the talking CBF
1billsfan Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) Does the owner usually speak at the end of the year? I thought the GM does all the talking CBF It is his first year owning the team. You'd think at some point there would be a public statement of confidence in the current organization if things were staying the same. Edited December 30, 2014 by 1billsfan
Kelly the Dog Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 Hey, it would be a good way to get a jumpstart in the 2-3 year process of firing Schwartz! I'd put Marrone's chances of surviving as Bills HC past next season at less than 50% right now. Schwartz is the type of re-tread, proven loser as a HC who would gladly take a job without the promise of a good QB and his candidacy only gets stronger as long as he is here and his D stays solid. I think you could switch coaches this year and NOT hire Schwartz but very likely still retain him as DC. Next year, I bet he would quit if Marrone was fired and he wasn't the replacement. His dues are accruing daily. Yup, that's why you make Marrone fire Hackett, he refuses and quits, you hire Malzahn or a top college offensive guy to be HC, give Schwartz a big fat raise and Associate HC title and a lot of the responsibilities a new HC has - OR - you hire Schwartz and get him a top OC with a big fat contract to completely run the offense and take over if Schwartz fails.
GaryPinC Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 Yup, that's why you make Marrone fire Hackett, he refuses and quits, you hire Malzahn or a top college offensive guy to be HC, give Schwartz a big fat raise and Associate HC title and a lot of the responsibilities a new HC has - OR - you hire Schwartz and get him a top OC with a big fat contract to completely run the offense and take over if Schwartz fails. I don't think Marrone refuses to fire Hackett, otherwise he's seen as a fraud because he always preaches best chance of winning. Thing is, I think Nate Hackett's playcalling improved (though still not good enough) the last quarter of the season and he has a lot of passion for the job. I simply think he needs to learn from an experienced NFL OC guru for a year or two. Chances are he gets let go, especially when PR savvy Russ Brandon publicly questions the playcalling. There's a lot of fluff corporate-speak that comes out of Russ's mouth, but when he voices displeasure concerning the Bills, changes get made. I don't get why so many here want to get rid of Marrone? It sounds like there's a good locker room and he consistently has this team playing good, hard-nosed football. For the first time in I-don't-know-when, in-game injuries happened noticeably more to our opponents instead of us. This year, I didn't have to cringe always watching other teams run over us when the game's on the line. I do believe he is building a successful culture behind the scenes. I think Brandon Spikes' words about enjoying his time here are heartfelt and not purely contract motivated. It's clear Marrone got a little too full of himself and over-tinkered with the O-line and was too conservative on 4th downs at times. He's a young NFL head coach with an unreliable offense/QB to influence his decisions so give him a chance to learn. Hopefully in his 360's players are empowered enough to mention going for it more on fourth down. This is a team that hasn't achieved anything yet, but opponents don't want to face. The last time I felt that way was in '87. Yeah, let's blow up the system, locker room and get rid of our 2nd year head coach working with an unreliable QB situation. Makes perfect sense.
Kelly the Dog Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 I don't think Marrone refuses to fire Hackett, otherwise he's seen as a fraud because he always preaches best chance of winning. Thing is, I think Nate Hackett's playcalling improved (though still not good enough) the last quarter of the season and he has a lot of passion for the job. I simply think he needs to learn from an experienced NFL OC guru for a year or two. Chances are he gets let go, especially when PR savvy Russ Brandon publicly questions the playcalling. There's a lot of fluff corporate-speak that comes out of Russ's mouth, but when he voices displeasure concerning the Bills, changes get made. I don't get why so many here want to get rid of Marrone? It sounds like there's a good locker room and he consistently has this team playing good, hard-nosed football. For the first time in I-don't-know-when, in-game injuries happened noticeably more to our opponents instead of us. This year, I didn't have to cringe always watching other teams run over us when the game's on the line. I do believe he is building a successful culture behind the scenes. I think Brandon Spikes' words about enjoying his time here are heartfelt and not purely contract motivated. It's clear Marrone got a little too full of himself and over-tinkered with the O-line and was too conservative on 4th downs at times. He's a young NFL head coach with an unreliable offense/QB to influence his decisions so give him a chance to learn. Hopefully in his 360's players are empowered enough to mention going for it more on fourth down. This is a team that hasn't achieved anything yet, but opponents don't want to face. The last time I felt that way was in '87. Yeah, let's blow up the system, locker room and get rid of our 2nd year head coach working with an unreliable QB situation. Makes perfect sense. Except every good point you made was about the defense, and every bad point you made was about the offense. Marrone's offense, not Hackett's. And Marrone had little to do with the defense, outside of hiring Schwartz, which was a no brainer for both of them.
GaryPinC Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 Except every good point you made was about the defense, and every bad point you made was about the offense. Marrone's offense, not Hackett's. And Marrone had little to do with the defense, outside of hiring Schwartz, which was a no brainer for both of them. Really? Everything bad was on offense and only Marrone's fault, everything good was on defense and Schwartz's credit? I think Marrone played a role on fourth down calls for sure, but exactly how much did he run the offense vs Hackett? I would appreciate an explanation of your direct knowledge as I have no firm idea. Marrone seems like a guy that lets his people do their jobs. Quarterback audibles and check downs with wide open receivers, Marrone's fault also? Orton deciding in the weeks up to the Denver game he didn't want to give his all to win anymore. I recall you directly posting that Orton wasn't throwing the same as he has in the past, more checkdowns less chances downfield. All Marrone's fault too? Crappy play calling or a bailing, self-protecting quarterback? Or defensive adjustments? The defense had a lousy game against Oakland, especially after Dareus left. Ultimately Marrone's fault right? Just because our offense was ineffective doesn't mean they weren't playing hard. How many serious injuries did we have to our O-lineman? And guard Mike Williams would have reinjured his back regardless of offensive effectiveness. But overall not many, and to me injuries occur there when guys aren't playing hard. If you truly believe that the solid locker room and consistent effort on the field only involved the defense we will have to agree to disagree. To me, it's an important measure of our head coach's effectiveness. In the past, no way we win that last game against the Patriots even against second half scrubs. Credit Marrone and the offense for taking control of the game in the first half when the starters were still in. Do you really believe we should can Marrone, blow up both systems, the locker room, and team morale? Keep that lack of coaching continuity going? This guy had the guts to pull EJ and fight to get Orton brought in, who despite his decision to retire, was arguably the best option available to us this year.
Best Player Available Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 You know what would be awesome? Marrone Opting out. You know why? We already have the next Head Coach. I'm sure this may have been pointed out up thread but Marrone opting out would be a god send. Schwartz becomes HC. He promotes one of his all star Defensive coaching staff to DC. Marrone and his little buddy Natie can go off to New York, Atlanta, or Chicago and Schwartz can hire a real OC like Trestman. The more I think of this, the more I can't wait to see an alert "Doug Morrone has opted out of his 2015 contract with the Buffalo Bills" A boy can dream . . . Schwartz as a head coach? One winning season in five. i would call that record a nightmare not a dream.
BobbyC81 Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 You know what would be awesome? Marrone Opting out. You know why? We already have the next Head Coach. I'm sure this may have been pointed out up thread but Marrone opting out would be a god send. Schwartz becomes HC. He promotes one of his all star Defensive coaching staff to DC. Marrone and his little buddy Natie can go off to New York, Atlanta, or Chicago and Schwartz can hire a real OC like Trestman. The more I think of this, the more I can't wait to see an alert "Doug Morrone has opted out of his 2015 contract with the Buffalo Bills" A boy can dream . . . Have you forgotten the disaster Schwartz was as head coach in Detroit? He was 7-9 last year and his players were out of control. Jim Caldwell took basically the same team, with a few additions like Golden Tate and Ebron, added discipline and they made the playoffs with an 11-5 record, allowing the 3rd fewest points in the league (Bills finished 4th).
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