BuffaninATL Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 The OL was terrible despite good intentions and WRs take a few years to develop Odell Beckham would beg to differ. With a semi-competent QB Sammy should have had 1,200+ yards ....
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 Odds are we will not find a decent veteran QB replacement for Orton to play next season. Manuel is probable as good if not better than most of the QB's that will become available this off season. The Bills can get to the next level with Manuel if and only if they put players around him that can dominate. If we can keep our defense together and get a healthy Kiko Alonzo back our defense should be dominate. Now our challenge becomes to up grade the Oline and develop a dominate running game. Build a team similar to the Baltimore team that won the Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer. we tried that already
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 we tried that already gave it a whole four games this season plus an injury-riddled rookie year. I am going to wager that a good number of people here paid little attention to Drew Brees' early career.
mattsox Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 Odds are we will not find a decent veteran QB replacement for Orton to play next season. Manuel is probable as good if not better than most of the QB's that will become available this off season. The Bills can get to the next level with Manuel if and only if they put players around him that can dominate. If we can keep our defense together and get a healthy Kiko Alonzo back our defense should be dominate. Now our challenge becomes to up grade the Oline and develop a dominate running game. Build a team similar to the Baltimore team that won the Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer. That was a different NFL when Dilfer won. It is now a QB league not a Defense league. Kiko in theory only brings you 1 more win. Putting you at 10-6, but that is with Orton @ QB. Manuel is not an NFL QB. Bottom line the Bills need an NFL QB to compete for the playoffs. EJs, Tools, and Glennons WILL NOT GET YOU TO THE SUPER BOWL!!!
Maury Ballstein Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) Build around EJ-HORSEHOCKY Horsesoccer and horsebasketball are Better. Free ej! I tend to agree. I don't know where this "ALL rookie QBs are capable of being starters day 1 in the NFL, despite 30 years of history to the contrary...because...that's the way the game is now" came from. This is crap. For literally years we've known that a rookie QBs place is on the bench, precisely so he can learn/develop. We also know that it takes ~3 years for most WRs to truly learn their craft. Now, suddenly all that wisdom, based on real world outcomes for decades, goes out the window? Worse, ALL of the players that have been citied to support this nonsense? Their play has refuted the entire notion. Even Andrew Luck has been struggling, and if Indy was in our division, and we in theirs? We would own that division. All the booger eating Ej haters would disagree. Ej will never improve because they said so. #science Edited December 30, 2014 by Ryan L Billz
Canadian Bills Fan Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 I have been saying for awhile that this team needs a top TE and I hope that finally gets addressed this offseason either through the draft or through FA CBF
All_Pro_Bills Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) That was a different NFL when Dilfer won. It is now a QB league not a Defense league. Kiko in theory only brings you 1 more win. Putting you at 10-6, but that is with Orton @ QB. Manuel is not an NFL QB. Bottom line the Bills need an NFL QB to compete for the playoffs. EJs, Tools, and Glennons WILL NOT GET YOU TO THE SUPER BOWL!!! Have to disagree concerning Mike Glennon. My view is he's put up decent numbers and has shown poise and command while playing for a crummy Tampa team. If the Buc's pick Mariota with the #1 they might be willing to part with Glennon for something like a conditional 4th rounder in 2016. But that's just one option the Bills should pursue and while a lot of the available QB's won't meet the cut nothing should be dismissed without the team doing some homework, all options should be on the table at this point. Even the CFL might be a place to look. While I'm not ready to give up on EJ and I believe its possible to learn to read defenses and progressions I'm not sure you can 'learn' accuracy. That and pocket pressence, appear to be his biggest flaws that might not be correctable. And they are serious problems if you want to play QB in the NFL. Will he come into training camp next year significantly better? Bradford and RG3 would be the other two QB's I'd evaluate first and right now I don't think veteran retreads like Cutler are going to be the answer. But a thorough analysis and evaluation process should tell the team what they need to know about each option. Other than that the team needs to consider the draft and I think we need to wait until after the draft combine to see what prospects emerge. Edited December 30, 2014 by All_Pro_Bills
BuffaloWings Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 Like it or not, I agree with the OP. The Bills won't find the next Brady/Manning/Brees/Rodgers (or even Jim Kelly) in free agency or the draft this year. In fact, all of those QBs were good in part because they have/had excellent offensive lines. If you want to cut EJ, go ahead. Living with Jeff Tuel or picking up Matt Moore, Mark Sanchez, or Sam Bradford won't make a damn bit of difference if they don't do anything to address the OL. Yes, EJ had some issues, but I still don't think he's gotten enough of a look. Don't get me wrong...he still has 2 strikes in my book, but let's give him a chance. Get the OL fixed first, then worry about the QB.
Canadian Bills Fan Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 Like it or not, I agree with the OP. The Bills won't find the next Brady/Manning/Brees/Rodgers (or even Jim Kelly) in free agency or the draft this year. In fact, all of those QBs were good in part because they have/had excellent offensive lines. If you want to cut EJ, go ahead. Living with Jeff Tuel or picking up Matt Moore, Mark Sanchez, or Sam Bradford won't make a damn bit of difference if they don't do anything to address the OL. Yes, EJ had some issues, but I still don't think he's gotten enough of a look. Don't get me wrong...he still has 2 strikes in my book, but let's give him a chance. Get the OL fixed first, then worry about the QB. This CBF
respk Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 What has EJ done that leads his supporters to believe he can be an NFL QB? No pocket presence, can't read defenses more than half the field at a time, appeared to be afraid to run (maybe his best asset) this year (another Trent?), and worst of all highly inaccurate. Outside of reading defenses the rest of those may not be able to be learned/unlearned. I don't think the Bills cut him outright but I can't see them going into next season as anything other than the backup and hopefully as only the developmental backup. Is he still eligible for the practice squad?
BuffaloBill Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 Baltimore's defense was arguably one of the greatest defenses of all time. Even that defense could be beat given the rule changes since 2000. If you mean put all of our eggs in the EJ Manuel basket, there's no reason to do that. Sign a veteran QB, if there is a prospect who merits a second or third round grade, draft him and let them duke it out in preseason. This is likely the only scenario the Bills have. There must be a QB competition in camp.
T master Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 If EJ has half the drive that Teabow has to get better & continue to work on his trade he might have a chance at being a really good QB ...
All_Pro_Bills Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) Like it or not, I agree with the OP. The Bills won't find the next Brady/Manning/Brees/Rodgers (or even Jim Kelly) in free agency or the draft this year. In fact, all of those QBs were good in part because they have/had excellent offensive lines. If you want to cut EJ, go ahead. Living with Jeff Tuel or picking up Matt Moore, Mark Sanchez, or Sam Bradford won't make a damn bit of difference if they don't do anything to address the OL. Yes, EJ had some issues, but I still don't think he's gotten enough of a look. Don't get me wrong...he still has 2 strikes in my book, but let's give him a chance. Get the OL fixed first, then worry about the QB. We need to acknowledge the Bills did attempt to address the offensive line last off season. They drafted 3 lineman, retained most of their players from '13, and signed free agent guard Chris Williams, a guy nobody else had at the top of their list. The problem is their effort, with the exception of Henderson, was a failure. But let's suppose the Bills 'fix' the offensive line this off season, sign a couple of prominet free agent lineman and draft a couple players too. And they have a good/great offensive line. We can agree they don't need an all-pro QB but the problem is whomever they go into the 2015 season with has got to display a minimum level of NFL competency. EJ has not shown that competency with any consistency and unless the team believes he can or has improved to that level no option at QB should be off the table. Its not a choice of fixing one or the other but rather both the line and the QB need to be addressed together this off season and the best possible option at QB needs to be found. If that's EJ then that's what we need to do. Edited December 30, 2014 by All_Pro_Bills
respk Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 We need to acknowledge the Bills did attempt to address the offensive line last off season. They drafted 3 lineman, retained most of their players from '13, and signed free agent guard Chris Williams, a guy nobody else had at the top of their list. The problem is their effort, with the exception of Henderson, was a failure. But let's suppose the Bills 'fix' the offensive line this off season, sign a couple of prominet free agent lineman and draft a couple players too. And they have a good/great offensive line. We can agree they don't need an all-pro QB but the problem is whomever they go into the 2015 season with has got to display a minimum level of NFL competency. EJ has not shown that competency with any consistency and unless the team believes he can or has improved to that level no option at QB should be off the table. Its not a choice of fixing one or the other but rather both the line and the QB need to be addressed together this off season and the best possible option at QB needs to be found. If that's EJ then that's what we need to do. The Bills should be able to fix the OL this off season. Either through FA, improvement of last years draftees or someone from this years draft. I would prefer through FA but just as long as it is fixed. I'm not sure who they get for QB this offseason. They'll need to hit lightning in a bottle or we may be looking at year 16 without playoffs if EJ and Tuel are the best options even if the OL is fixed.
bmur66 Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 Everybody that knows anything said Manuel was a project QB from the beginning. It was not the plan to start him right away. Last year he was to learn behind Mr. Concussion floor matt slipper. He wasn't ready to start this year either obviously. I am not sure what the plan was with Orton coming in after camp. I'd really like to know the whole story on that one. But anyways, next year is year 3 and this should be the time for Manuel to step up. I am rooting for him and I think he is going to do it. He has all of the things Orton didn't. Hopefully he can also do the things Orton could do.
BuffaloFan68 Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 I say we draft O-linemen with our first 2 picks and then see what we have. Keep in mind that all QBs regress under Todd Downing - look at what he did with Stafford.
Maddog69 Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 I'm in the minority on TBD, I think EJ can be an excellent starting QB in the NFL. He has many physical tools needed and he has high character and work ethic. I would love to see Hackett utilize EJ's athleticism more and build the offense around his strengths. I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do in camp. He will have 3 years in the same system and if he fails to capture the job coming out of camp, it will be on him and nobody else. I would expect the Bills to bring in another experienced QB (Sanchez, Mallett, Ponder, Hoyer, etc) plus a 3rd or 4th rd pick to compete. May the best man win. It seems logical that EJ would have an advantage in the battle for the job because he's been here. Only time will tell.
markgbe Posted December 30, 2014 Posted December 30, 2014 Yup. Build o-line so that EJ has a ton of time. At that point if he can't make throws, we look elsewhere. It's riduously simple at this point with our awesome D, and good special teams.
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