Mark80 Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 (edited) Unfortunately, getting it wrong on a 1st round QB is a fatal mistake for a GM in the NFL. Not picking EJ means we could've had Carr this year, who I think could become a franchise QB. Trading up for Sammy looks like a bad move when you consider how deep the WR talent was in last year's draft. Koundjio looks like a bust. Do yourself a favor and look up all the QBs drafted in the first round over the past 15 years and tell me what % of those are "franchise" QBs. The number will be very small. Also, any trade can be looked upon poorly in hindsight, at the time of the deal Watkins was the ONLY receiver seen as a guaranteed thing in the draft. The ONLY one. Edited December 29, 2014 by Mark80
Dorkington Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 (edited) Unfortunately, getting it wrong on a 1st round QB is a fatal mistake for a GM in the NFL. Not picking EJ means we could've had Carr this year, who I think could become a franchise QB. Trading up for Sammy looks like a bad move when you consider how deep the WR talent was in last year's draft. Koundjio looks like a bust. Carr (16 games): 348/599 58.1% 3270 21TD 3.5TD% 12INT 2.0INT% 76.6RAT 4.82ANYA Manuel (14 games): 256/437 58.6% 2810 16TD 3.7TD% 12INT 2.7INT% 78.5RAT 5.07ANYA Edited December 29, 2014 by Dorkington
Mark80 Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 Carr (16 games): 348/599 58.1% 3270 21TD 3.5TD% 12INT 2.0% 76.6RAT 4.82ANYA Manuel (14 games): 256/437 58.6% 2810 16TD 3.7TD% 12INT 2.7INT% 78.5RAT 5.07ANYA Sorry, but you are using facts and logic here. Clearly you are in the wrong forum.
peterpan Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 I have to agree. Anyone who thought EJ was an NFL quarterback is lacking a lot of knowledge. The guy obviously had no talent at FSU. Then to be so convinced that EJ is going to take us to the playoffs this year? Only to get him bench four games in? Unbelievable. Also remember this team passed on the Dalton's and Wilson's of the league. We do need to bring in a consultant to find a qb. Pay Jon gruden - he meets with all those college QBs anyways. Pay Peyton manning and Eli manning - they meet these kids at their camp. Broaded the search, what we have always done is clearly not working
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 Hell no. EJ is crap and NEVER should have been drafted by Buffalo to be a starter. Some guys regardless of hype or where drafted are not ever meant to be starting QB's in the NFL....EJ is one of them Is that in your esteemed opinion?
timtebow15 Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 Either Whaley or Maronne has to go. Someone has to be accountable for not only picking Manuel in 1st round, but rolling with Tuel and Thad last year and doing nothing to upgrade QB in offseason and being forced to over-pay Orton out of retirement. I agree! The more I think about it the more I hold Whaley responsible. We are in the same position as last year with the QB and OL. He managed to go two years without solving our most pressing problems. Marrone did not have many options and he can't go out and get his own players.
MarkAF43 Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 I agree! The more I think about it the more I hold Whaley responsible. We are in the same position as last year with the QB and OL. He managed to go two years without solving our most pressing problems. Marrone did not have many options and he can't go out and get his own players. This is as ridiculous as can be. This past year he drafted 3 lineman and signed another in FA. He brought in a QB in FA and the hope was EJ would develop. Sure those haven't panned out but we aren't in the same position as last year.
mabden Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 Why didn't they start EJ yesterday? Because they really did want to win that game. The biggest offseason priority to me is for the organization to conduct a a top-to-bottom assessment of the offensive strategy and personnel, and do what's needed to fix the OL. In hindsight, the way NE played (soft,) we would have won the game with Manuel at QB.
YoloinOhio Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 Everyone talks about no first round pick at 19. Is this a QB rich draft? Who would we get at 19? it would be a huge reach to take anyone outside of the top 2 guys at 19
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 Carr (16 games): 348/599 58.1% 3270 21TD 3.5TD% 12INT 2.0INT% 76.6RAT 4.82ANYA Manuel (14 games): 256/437 58.6% 2810 16TD 3.7TD% 12INT 2.7INT% 78.5RAT 5.07ANYA Oh no. Factual information in the face of panic.
KD in CA Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 Either Whaley or Maronne has to go. Someone has to be accountable for not only picking Manuel in 1st round, but rolling with Tuel and Thad last year and doing nothing to upgrade QB in offseason and being forced to over-pay Orton out of retirement. People who post such nonsensical things clearly have no idea what 'being held accountable' means. p.s. Orton was the upgrade.
cage Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 Just curious, but in Whaleys tenure as GM, what QB did he whiff on? As in what should have been the decision. I know Geno had a career day yesterday, but Manuel might be the best QB in his draft class. Doesn't mean he will be the guy, but he is the only one with hope at this point. So the guy drafts the best QB in the class, and is untrustworthy. What available FA's and QBs did the franchise miss out on? The complaining without a reasonable solution needs to stop. I completely agree. Nothing fries me more than this non-stop QB discussion. Its by far the hardest call to make and getting it wrong it also has to be evaluated what the alternative was at the time the decision was made. We've looked and debated this in the past many times. However, over the last decade there were three times where we had an alternative choice and picked wrong. The biggest one was in 2012 trading up to take TJ Graham and then watch Seattle pick Russel Wilson a few picks later. I think Whaley has to own that one. The the other was in 2011 selecting Aaron Williams over Andy Dalton / Colin Kaepernick who were taken with the next 2 picks. This is the toughest thing by far as very few elite QBs come in later rounds. So once the top 2-3 guys come off the board in the first round, it becomes a crapshoot and its hard to pick a QB in round 2/3 while sacrificing players needed at other positions who are much more likely to pan out. Even the top 2-3 QBs in each draft have a <50% hit rate.
BillsVet Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 Unfortunately, getting it wrong on a 1st round QB is a fatal mistake for a GM in the NFL. Not picking EJ means we could've had Carr this year, who I think could become a franchise QB. Trading up for Sammy looks like a bad move when you consider how deep the WR talent was in last year's draft. Koundjio looks like a bust. Good GM's miss on first round QB's. Ozzie Newsome selected Kyle Boller in '03, but it didn't set back the organization for 5 years because when it became clear Boller wasn't going to cut it, they acquired McNair who played in '06 and '07. But Newsome didn't miss in '08 when Baltimore selected Flacco. They've managed to be a solid team a long time, reaching the playoffs in 8 of the past 12 years and having a losing record twice in that span. And yes, having a good defense cushions the blow of not having an elite QB, but it doesn't totally make up for it either. Baltimore was very good in those 12 seasons.
thewildrabbit Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 The Best thing Whaley has done on the offensive side of the ball the last two years just retired. Great news, Orton Gone, and we retain Brandon as team president of football operations, Marrone & Hackett back next year. Not even 2015 yet and
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 There's a revolving door at QB for around 20 teams in the league. They try a guy, he doesn't work out, so you bring in a new one. If he gets it wrong about ten times in a row, which would probably make him slightly worse than average in the league, then you may have a valid point. Everyone keeps saying we need to bring in Bill Pollian, he knows how to find a QB. Then why would he have brought in Painter to be the backup to Manning on a Super Bowl caliper team. You're ripping Whaley for having Tuel and Lewis, well there wasn't a huge drop off between them and EJ. But Pollian is so much smarter?? Really can't fault Whaley for expecting those two guys to show some improvement also from last season, when they realized it didn't happen they made a move. Now we are really in a hole. We have no first round pick, and Whaley has shown he can't be trusted on choosing/finding a QB. The only solution might be to find the best consultant type scout(s) out there, and task them with the sole objective of identifying viable candidates. One can't leave this to our scouting department alone. Either Whaley or Maronne has to go. Someone has to be accountable for not only picking Manuel in 1st round, but rolling with Tuel and Thad last year and doing nothing to upgrade QB in off-season and being forced to over-pay Orton out of retirement. You can say that about every QB for every team in the league and look real smart as there are many more failures than successes. So if you say they all suck you'll be right most of the time. Maybe EJ is one of them, maybe not, what I do know is no one has seen enough of him to know for certain, even a genius like yourself. But the odds are in your favor that you're correct just simply because there are so many more failures out there. Hell no. EJ is crap and NEVER should have been drafted by Buffalo to be a starter. Some guys regardless of hype or where drafted are not ever meant to be starting QB's in the NFL....EJ is one of them
jjmac Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 So, we need to find a QB to get killed behind our OL before we get a couple guards?
peterpan Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 This is as ridiculous as can be. This past year he drafted 3 lineman and signed another in FA. He brought in a QB in FA and the hope was EJ would develop. Sure those haven't panned out but we aren't in the same position as last year. I will play devils advocate here Drafts 3 lineman and signs one free agent - and only one of those four players are any good! Why would he have ANY faith in EJ becoming any good?? No good qb evaluator would have that faith
4merper4mer Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 In hindsight, the way NE played (soft,) we would have won the game with Manuel at QB. And this board would be blowing up because: A. "It proved Marrone was wrong and we should have used EJ all along." 2. "Holy crap Orton retired because Marrone benched him." I am not a Marrone fan but he could have started Bozo the Clown, EJ, Orton, Tuel or Beerboy at QB yesterday. The Bills could have won or lost or tied. They could have played awesome or terrible. Whatever happened yesterday should mean nothing to Marrone good or bad and not much at all to any of the players. It is great that they are glad for the win....I don't mean that....I just mean it should not have much impact on our overall 2014 evaluation by management. One thing Marrone should get some credit for is the team not running for the bus. There is something to be said for that.
Iraq Vet Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 Who else in EJ's draft class would you have taken? Probably the worst draft class in years! We still have to find a guy, but I don't blame Whaley.... look what was and now is available. Wafer thin. People would have been mad if we did not get Watkins and we found out later we could have had him.... then if we did not get him, we would have had to have a 2-14 season to get the #1 pick (Oh, that rage would have been huge) to have a shot at a good QB. Which would have gotten Whaley and Marrone fired and we would start all over again. 9-7 is not bad... how do we get a QB? Ask the other 12 teams that stink at QB which we are competing against. It is not easy! Cam Newton is not going to be available, nor are many others we think might be.
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 I have to agree. Anyone who thought EJ was an NFL quarterback is lacking a lot of knowledge. The guy obviously had no talent at FSU. Then to be so convinced that EJ is going to take us to the playoffs this year? Only to get him bench four games in? Unbelievable. Also remember this team passed on the Dalton's and Wilson's of the league. We do need to bring in a consultant to find a qb. Pay Jon gruden - he meets with all those college QBs anyways. Pay Peyton manning and Eli manning - they meet these kids at their camp. Broaded the search, what we have always done is clearly not working Dalton has played 64 games and thrown 66 int's and he has one of the best WRs in the NFL. All he has to do is throw jump balls to Green and he can't even do that right. For the year 19 TDs 17 INTs. Ooh the horror of passing on him.
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