San-O Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 Do people understand the concept of league average? I ask that seriously. Do people understand the concept of league average? I ask that seriously. NOT average. way below. http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr
Agent 91 Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 I think we all knew he wasn't the answer. If anything this puts pressure on Whaley to find a solution now instead of keeping on a band-aid in Orton. At least he kept the season interesting into December, but it was clear his heart wasn't in it the last few weeks. Are we sure it was him? I mean I know where you are going. But I more so think the team was interesting in December due to the other side of the ball. I think it was interesting despite him or the offense.
PromoTheRobot Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 The team wasn't taking a knee, so neither should he have been, end of story. As for Orton, you people are talking past each other. Fact: we are objectively worse-off, right now, without Orton on the roster. Fact: Orton was not going to take us where we want to go. Both of those things are true. People think that any QB is better than the one we have. This is Fitz all over. True: FItz/Orton/etc are not pro bowl caliber QB's but they aren't the worst QBs either. Those who say we can't be any worse are dead wrong. Things can be a lot worse. Agreed. And the fact is now we see what our GM and front office is made of. Can they find a way to fill our QB needs? Only time will tell. You can't find a QB if there isn't one better. Right now there is a severe lack of QB talent in the NFL. They just aren't making great QBs anymore.
Agent 91 Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 Yeah, I'm still pissed off about winning that game and ending the season on a high note. What exactly is your high note? The only possible high note is holding people in Patriot jerseys to 9 points. We scored on 1 good drive... and the game doesnt carry over. Like they said on the radio this morning. Last time when we beat the Colts (with a gutted team preserving for the playoffs) in the final game. We started the next year 0-8. I really ask. What exactly was the high note. Whether we won 9 or 4 the ultimate result is the same. We are done as of yesterday at 4pm.
JC2002 Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 As I have said he is a below average starter. To me that is lower than league average that is bottom of the league... They seem like the same thing. I also said in the post you quoted that he ranked somewhere around 19-23 imo. That is bottom of the league and below average. Do you really want to argue semantics here or can we agree that Orton just isn't that good. Not the worst, not the best, and certainly nobody that can lead you to the super bowl. And all time Bills leader in completion %?! come on man. 64.2 percent while averaging a 30th ranked in the league ypa is something to hang your hat on? Its not bottom of the league when you come in with no camp that you ignore context to fit your stats into your arguments is the problem . A below average starter wouldn't have gotten anywhere near close to the production that Orton did with no training camp with this team . A below average starter wouldnt have been able to come off his couch and set the record under any circumstances especially ours . A team that aint been to the playoffs in a decade talking about SB is ridiculous and at this time embarrassing because lets face how the hell would we know when we just .500 for the first time in forever .
GA BILLS FAN Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 How many of those teams have NO Oline ? starting wideouts that are 21 and 22 yrs old ,and no running game ? You want Orton to provide results equal to those qbs in situations that none of those qbs are close to playing in . DENIAL.. You can't be serious. Tell me your trolling. Just take a look at the skill positions on some of those teams. Pats WR's and RB's, Seattle WR's, Panthers WR's and RB's, I could go on Are you seriously arguing that QB isn't as important as I stated or you just a fan of Orton's QB play ?
JC2002 Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 You can't be serious. Tell me your trolling. Just take a look at the skill positions on some of those teams. Pats WR's and RB's, Seattle WR's, Panthers WR's and RB's, I could go on Are you seriously arguing that QB isn't as important as I stated or you just a fan of Orton's QB play ? I didnt say the QB is not important where did I say that ? My argument is that we didn't surround our qb with the same things that those teams have and still demand the same results . Pats have 15 years of continuity ...Orton wasnt even in our training camp Seattle has the best rushing attack in the league Carolina is in the NFC south now you tell me how I can read this board and see these type of statements all the time and now that cant be considered trolling . We have no Oline but we should be running like the Seahawks and passing like the Patriots ?
Koufax Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 Wow. We really are in desperate need for a QB. I hope EJ can improve but you can't count on it. I think you can count on it. I think EJ had accuracy and decision making issues and wasn't ready to be an NFL QB, which is not the case for all young QBs, but for some it can take time. It remains to be seen how good a QB he can be. Kyle however competent he might have been able to be in 2015, has a defined ceiling and while he might have benefited some from being in the second year as starter in a system, we wouldn't expect 33 to be that much better than 32, and there was a lot of acceptable disappointment this year as the defense carried us. So I think by the end of the season I would expect that EJ had already narrowed the performance gap through his hard work, based on what I would naturally expect and by comments by Orton himself, Marrone, and others. I fully expect EJ to continue to work hard and improve between now and September, and to be roughly similar to Orton in performance on the conservative side, with the hope that it all clicks and he can take bigger strides forward. Clearly another QB has to be brought in to compete and be backup if EJ improves, and that won't be with one of our limited draft picks. I'm not sure yet who will be available, and the likelihood that we find someone clearly better than EJ vs an honest competition, but I don't think that our 2015 QB pair of EJ+??? has a long way to go to be better than our 2014 QB pair of KO+EJ.
dave mcbride Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 NOT average. way below. http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr Again: http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/qbr-espns-deeply-flawed-made-for-tv-stat/7978/
KOKBILLS Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 You can't find a QB if there isn't one better. Right now there is a severe lack of QB talent in the NFL. They just aren't making great QBs anymore. True...No question... Outside of Luck and Wilson you have to go all the way back to 2008 and Matt Ryan to find a top 15 QB Drafted into the league... That's 3 top 15 QB's in 8 Drafts... No getting around it...That's not good...
The Dean Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 I think you can count on it. I think EJ had accuracy and decision making issues and wasn't ready to be an NFL QB, which is not the case for all young QBs, but for some it can take time. It remains to be seen how good a QB he can be. Kyle however competent he might have been able to be in 2015, has a defined ceiling and while he might have benefited some from being in the second year as starter in a system, we wouldn't expect 33 to be that much better than 32, and there was a lot of acceptable disappointment this year as the defense carried us. So I think by the end of the season I would expect that EJ had already narrowed the performance gap through his hard work, based on what I would naturally expect and by comments by Orton himself, Marrone, and others. I fully expect EJ to continue to work hard and improve between now and September, and to be roughly similar to Orton in performance on the conservative side, with the hope that it all clicks and he can take bigger strides forward. Clearly another QB has to be brought in to compete and be backup if EJ improves, and that won't be with one of our limited draft picks. I'm not sure yet who will be available, and the likelihood that we find someone clearly better than EJ vs an honest competition, but I don't think that our 2015 QB pair of EJ+??? has a long way to go to be better than our 2014 QB pair of KO+EJ. I really don't know if EJ will be the guy, but he has some things going for him. He's smart, athletic, humble and has a great work ethic. He has a good arm and seems to be pretty even-tempered when things aren't going well. That's a pretty potent combination. I wouldn't bet against a guy with all that on his side.
dave mcbride Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 (edited) I really don't know if EJ will be the guy, but he has some things going for him. He's smart, athletic, humble and has a great work ethic. He has a good arm and seems to be pretty even-tempered when things aren't going well. That's a pretty potent combination. I wouldn't bet against a guy with all that on his side. I don't think anyone here knows if this is actually true. He may be smart; he may not be. I just don't think anyone has any basis to make a judgment. It certainly can't be based on his academic career. He went to a standard-issue bigtime football factory that coddles its players to the nth degree (which is well documented), and he majored in communication. No offense to communication majors, but it's not a particularly hard major. Beyond that, I don't know much about his analytical skills at all. And I don't think anyone else does either. He does seem like a decent human being, however. Edited December 29, 2014 by dave mcbride
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 Same here. Sounds like he wants to stay home and focus on being a dad. Best of luck Kyle! great now we have no QB, thanks Kyle dik
KOKBILLS Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 I really don't know if EJ will be the guy, but he has some things going for him. He's smart, athletic, humble and has a great work ethic. He has a good arm and seems to be pretty even-tempered when things aren't going well. That's a pretty potent combination. I wouldn't bet against a guy with all that on his side. I know I've said this a million times here...But if EJ had simply hit 50% of the passes to receivers in stride who were open when he read the Defense properly instead of throwing too low, too high, behind them, etc...He'd be a top 15 QB easily...He has every single intangible necessary to be a good NFL QB except the ability to consistently hit open receivers in stride...Every NFL QB makes mistakes, throws into coverage, gets hurried due to pass rush, etc...Every single one of them...But the good ones burn you when they properly read the Defense and have an open receiver...That's the area EJ HAS to improve...The low and high passes, throwing behind open receivers, especially on 3rd down...That has to go...
fridge Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 I know I've said this a million times here...But if EJ had simply hit 50% of the passes to receivers in stride who were open when he read the Defense properly instead of throwing too low, too high, behind them, etc...He'd be a top 15 QB easily...He has every single intangible necessary to be a good NFL QB except the ability to consistently hit open receivers in stride...Every NFL QB makes mistakes, throws into coverage, gets hurried due to pass rush, etc...Every single one of them...But the good ones burn you when they properly read the Defense and have an open receiver...That's the area EJ HAS to improve...The low and high passes, throwing behind open receivers, especially on 3rd down...That has to go... I disagree. I think he did struggle with accuracy, but he certainly hit receivers in stride no less than Kyle Orton.
thewildrabbit Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 IMO Orton came into too Buffalo a career .500 QB. Why are the people so happy too see him leave & dumping on him? he actually had a winning season despite a OC that is completely lost,Two starting backs injured for part of the season or should we just admit an ineffectual running game for the entire season. Oh, and one of the worst O-lines in the NFL. Was he the answer? Eff no. But he was the best QB since Flutie and the still honored fritztragic. yea, he slid when he should of got a first down. Nowhere near the incompetency of running out of bounds on 4th down at the end of a game. That "QB" was named Trent Edwards. No way the Bills end up with a winning season with Manuel. Truth probably is Whaley, Brandon, Maroon, and Hackett all would have been fired this AM if Manuel would have stayed in for the season. Most forget Manuel needs a 6 foot circle on the broadside of a barn to even hit the barn. And,of course the usual suspect(s) blames the fans believing Orton read the BN and TSW and decided too much drama.LOL really the idiocy of crusading sometimes gets really tiresome reading. orton was who he was, a stop gap. And playing in a rudderless offense. Which unless dramatic coaching changes are made will be the same next year, with another middle of the road vet tossed in who may or may not why do as well. Whaley keeps his job. because signing Orton on the eve of opening day is what a clueless GM does when he realizes his first rounder in year 2 blows. There is nor was a QB on the roster with even close to Ortons very limited credentials. Sure Orton grabbed a quick 5 million and retired, he also won more games than he lost. Was by far the best option put there. he earned every penny, unlike Chris Williams, etc. Other examples of Whaley's scouting and lack of football instincts. Also, a big shout out to #94 who actually played all 16 games this year. Instead of dialing in a few which has always been his MO. I for one appreciated that, and the whole defensive unit for playing with heart for the entire season. Best of luck too Orton he earned his chump paychecks, and for the fans who are into stats? Take a look at the "franchise" QB's he played better than. Some real interesting names on that list. The purge needs to begin at OBD. The stink on the deck is as bad as ever. Great post Sadly, the purge won't begin until the 2016 off season.
KOKBILLS Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 I disagree. I think he did struggle with accuracy, but he certainly hit receivers in stride no less than Kyle Orton. Well...Orton was not good enough in that area either...So... Go back and look at the tape...EJ struggles in this area and left HUGE plays on the table due to it...More importantly in closed quarters when all they needed was a quick accurate pass EJ was all too often off target...Slightly behind...too low...too high...Those are drive killers when they should be simple pitch and catch... I'm not saying EJ can't improve in this area...I was not really on-board with benching EJ anyway...Though I understood why Marrone did it...But he has to get much better at simply hitting receivers in stride...If he does the sky is the limit for him...
rumblefish Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 wasn't a Orton fan when he was signed, but I though the Bills were smart to sign a veteran to be the back up, never saw the change being made so soon, not a trait this team has been famous for, people on these pages blamed him sometimes justly and sometimes not bottom line, Orton was not the solution, and he was not the problem, but he did suit up and show up and that is one thing no fan can take away from him, were the Bills completive with Orton, yes, could they have been more productive, yes, could they have won more, yes, could they have lost more, yes in the final analysis, the Bills were not better or worst having him but the final record of 9-7 will stand for better or worst on the teams merit not on any one player, so Kyle thanks for your effort and best wishes to you in the future
Niagara Dude Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 I think he sees the writing on the wall and wants to leave the game on his terms, he is a back-up at best.I do respect the fact that he understands he cannot help the Bills as our starter, just wished Marrone would do the same and walk away (sucks as our head coach)
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