Luxy312 Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 A couple of points on Sammy Watkins. First, you can't call him a bust yet. Tell me what Lee Evans or Eric Moulds did in their rookie season. I haven't looked at the stats, but my memory tells me that they didn't do as well. Sammy is sitting at 65 receptions for 982 and 6 TD's. Respectable, but certainly not where Odell Beckham ended the year. In line with Lee Evans, but for the TD's, but that has to be discussed in the overall context of the inefficiency of the Bills offense in the red zone. They finished 31st in the NFL in red zone offense. Terrible! A little disturbing to me is that for the 7 first round draft picks in team history, 3 are from Clemson. That's somewhat of a statistical head scratcher. In terms of statistics, the NY Giants passed for almost 20% more yards than the Bills this season. If you added 20% onto Sammy's numbers (assuming an even distribution, which I would not), what would his numbers look like compared to Beckham? Nevermind. Instead of actually looking at anything or attempting to analyze anything, let's just bash on this team. It's not like this is the first time since Bledsoe was quarterback that the team finished above 0.500.
CountDorkula Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 A couple of points on Sammy Watkins. First, you can't call him a bust yet. Tell me what Lee Evans or Eric Moulds did in their rookie season. I haven't looked at the stats, but my memory tells me that they didn't do as well. Sammy is sitting at 65 receptions for 982 and 6 TD's. Respectable, but certainly not where Odell Beckham ended the year. In line with Lee Evans, but for the TD's, but that has to be discussed in the overall context of the inefficiency of the Bills offense in the red zone. They finished 31st in the NFL in red zone offense. Terrible! A little disturbing to me is that for the 7 first round draft picks in team history, 3 are from Clemson. That's somewhat of a statistical head scratcher. In terms of statistics, the NY Giants passed for almost 20% more yards than the Bills this season. If you added 20% onto Sammy's numbers (assuming an even distribution, which I would not), what would his numbers look like compared to Beckham? Nevermind. Instead of actually looking at anything or attempting to analyze anything, let's just bash on this team. It's not like this is the first time since Bledsoe was quarterback that the team finished above 0.500. Telling stat. In week 17 Beckham was targeted 21 times. In the last 4 weeks of the season Watkins was targeted just 30. More targets is going to equal more catches yards and TD's for Watkins.
truth on hold Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 Telling stat. In week 17 Beckham was targeted 21 times. In the last 4 weeks of the season Watkins was targeted just 30. More targets is going to equal more catches yards and TD's for Watkins. Watkins is simply not open as often, drops more balls, and doesn't win jump balls. Those are simply the reasons they stopped targeting him as much
bisonbrigade Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 Beckham was targeted 21 times yesterday, Watkins was targeted 4 times.
CountDorkula Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 Watkins is simply not open as often, drops more balls, and doesn't win jump balls. Those are simply the reasons they stopped targeting him as much Keep on trolling.
mannc Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 Beckham was targeted 21 times yesterday, Watkins was targeted 4 times. That is not an argument in Sammy's favor, by the way. A no. 1 receiver should be targeted a lot more. Something is wrong with this picture.
Jauronimo Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 Beckham was targeted 21 times yesterday, Watkins was targeted 4 times. By a QB who still plays football.
DrDawkinstein Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 That is not an argument in Sammy's favor, by the way. A no. 1 receiver should be targeted a lot more. Something is wrong with this picture. The QB and the OC.
mannc Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 The QB and the OC. I don't understand the argument. Why would the QB and/or the OC intentionally opt not to throw the ball to a guy who consistently gets open. Are you saying they don't like Sammy?
Jauronimo Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 I'm wondering why no one has brought up the "garbage time" argument like we do to discount our own players. Considering the Giants won 5 games and were constantly airing it out to catch up, about 97% of ODB's production can be attributed to garbage time stats.
DrDawkinstein Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 I don't understand the argument. Why would the QB and/or the OC intentionally opt not to throw the ball to a guy who consistently gets open. Are you saying they don't like Sammy? The plays arent designed well enough to get him the ball, and the QB is incapable of getting him the ball. Are you just tuning in to the Bills season today?
mannc Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 The plays arent designed well enough to get him the ball, and the QB is incapable of getting him the ball. Are you just tuning in to the Bills season today? no, I am just amazed at the number of excuses people here can come up with for why Sammy was dramatically outperformed by a guy the Bills could have taken at 9. This is the only corner of the universe where it was a good trade.
truth on hold Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 (edited) I'm wondering why no one has brought up the "garbage time" argument like we do to discount our own players. Considering the Giants won 5 games and were constantly airing it out to catch up, about 97% of ODB's production can be attributed to garbage time stats. Because it was thoroughly refuted. They lost a lot of close games, primarily because defense gave up late leads. And btw they won 6 not 5 games. Edited December 29, 2014 by JTSP
Jauronimo Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 no, I am just amazed at the number of excuses people here can come up with for why Sammy was dramatically outperformed by a guy the Bills could have taken at 9. This is the only corner of the universe where it was a good trade. This is among many corners of the universe where logical arguments are dismissed as excuses and theres little room for critical thought and nuance. Because it was thoroughly refuted. They lost a lot of close games, primarily because defense gave up late leads.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 (edited) The question from th op is correct as a rhetorical statement. Because you can't compare the two. The QBs charged with delivering the football to them are so monumentally different, assemsent is impossible. Eli is an average qb, by every statistical measure except chamuonchips. He slings the ball and has shown flashes of greatness and mixed in pro bowl seasons here and there. He's less of a leader an OC mind than his brother, but his play and pocket presence almost innate and automatic at times is impressive. Orton is not even close to middling. He lacks accuracy, pocket presence and playmaking ability. He rarely puts a contested ball in a place where playmakers have a chance to do anything, much less make a spectacular play and he certainly doesn't do anything to make the defense need to cover the whole field. The hope for the franchise remains they find and develop a guy into a good to great qb. This also includes the dwindling possibility that manuel may end up being that guy. Of course if you can't beat out said "orton".... I'm just not so sure what that probability is at this point. Edit: it's worth noting despite all the challenges he had the most productive rookie year for any buffalo wr ever. Edited December 29, 2014 by over 20 years of fanhood
Billsfan1972 Posted December 29, 2014 Author Posted December 29, 2014 (edited) And clowney was a great draft pick (just having fun)? The issue is that the offensive game plan sucked all season. To be excited and cheer for a player is what you watch football for. Prior to this year and QB's not throwing for 300 yards was a recurring joke (and this year the 300 yard games were an anomaly). Using Watkins as a decoy & continually sending him on useless patterns seemed a waste. Watching Beckham run free and have the ball thrown in catchable spots was frustrating as a Bills fan. We'll see what 2015 brings...... Edited December 29, 2014 by Billsfan1972
mannc Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 This is among many corners of the universe where logical arguments are dismissed as excuses and theres little room for critical thought and nuance. Sorry, but it is not logical to suggest that a QB and offensive coordinator in the NFL intentionally or even negligently ignored a guy who was open all the time. I would imagine Wood got at least as many targets as Sammy. Something is wrong when your number one guy gets targeted so seldom.
Jauronimo Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 Sorry, but it is not logical to suggest that a QB and offensive coordinator in the NFL intentionally or even negligently ignored a guy who was open all the time. I would imagine Wood got at least as many targets as Sammy. Something is wrong when your number one guy gets targeted so seldom. You're right, it isn't logical. But there are a few other logical explanations which you've dismissed. We can at least agree on the bolded.
DrDawkinstein Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 (edited) Sorry, but it is not logical to suggest that a QB and offensive coordinator in the NFL intentionally or even negligently ignored a guy who was open all the time. I would imagine Wood got at least as many targets as Sammy. Something is wrong when your number one guy gets targeted so seldom. Are you kidding? Or just trolling? Woods (not Wood our center) got so many targets because of Sammy being double-teamed and getting Safety help. It was the other team's game plan to eliminate Sammy and take their chances leaving our other guys in single coverage. This is basic football 101, and easily seen in live action. You dont even need to study the film to see it. Im not trying to make up excuses. Im simply stating the reality of what happened. You can draw whatever conclusion you want, and be as wrong as you want. I, like J-mo, agree with the bolded statement. But what was wrong isnt our top prospect stud of a WR. Hope this link helps... http://www.buffaloru...o-bills-targets Hope this link helps... http://www.buffaloru...o-bills-targets well done sir. Fair enough, that is one rumor posted before the draft happened. Since then, the Bills have said Ebron would have been their guy. Edited December 29, 2014 by DrDareustein
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 (edited) Sorry, but it is not logical to suggest that a QB and offensive coordinator in the NFL intentionally or even negligently ignored a guy who was open all the time. I would imagine Wood got at least as many targets as Sammy. Something is wrong when your number one guy gets targeted so seldom. If the qb decides where he's going before the snap how open the other guy gets is irrelevant. Here is the thought exercise.... Imagine a world where watkins plays with eli and Odell plays with orton.... Is it believed they would each have the same stats as in reality or do we believe the stats would be inverted? Edited December 29, 2014 by over 20 years of fanhood
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