Who gets more credit for improved talent on roster...Whaley or Nix?

[Kelly the Dog]

It was written five days ago!

Man, that is just crazy. usually Brandt has game

[mountainwampus]

I see no proof of improved talent on this roster. Maybe if we are talking about improved talent of the D-line, I'd credit Nix for convincing Mario to come to town and grabbing Dareus was a decent move, the trading of Sheppard for Hughes was freaking brilliant (was that Nix's move?) though Marv Levy drafted Kyle, which is one of the best draft picks of the decade. Yet Marv whiffed on so many other players. I don't know what Whaley has done right, if anything.

[PastaJoe]

You are just digging in now. You said that we missed out on the chance to get a QB that doesn't exist. If that is why you are upset about the trade take a deep breath because they didn't miss out on a QB by trading for Sammy. They may have missed out on a guard (there probably isn't a TE worthy of that pick either). The question is would you rather have Watkins or Ebron & (ironically enough) Ereck Flowers? That is what the trade actually meant.

 

I'd take Beckham and next year's 1st over Watkins. They didn't know where they would pick when they made the trade. And you're deflecting from the fact that finding a new QB is not a tweek, and that you think a non playoff team is better than a playoff team.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

I'd take Beckham and next year's 1st over Watkins. They didn't know where they would pick when they made the trade. And you're deflecting from the fact that finding a new QB is not a tweek, and that you think a non playoff team is better than a playoff team.

Beckham and next year's 1st wasn't going to happen though. It's easy to say we should have done "x" in hindsight. They are on record as saying that Ebron was the pick if they couldn't trade up.

 

QB is a massive need but they don't grow on trees. Your realistic options are probably RG, Cutler, Hoyer or Bradford. You can't just act like some guy that doesn't exist was going to be picked at 20 and be the franchise guy. If Connor Cook was coming out he may have fallen into that category but he has said that he is going back to school.

 

I also believe that the Bills are a better football team than the winner of the NFC South. I am basing this on the number of games that each team won.

Edited December 28, 2014 by Kirby Jackson

[zonabb]

I see no proof of improved talent on this roster. Maybe if we are talking about improved talent of the D-line, I'd credit Nix for convincing Mario to come to town and grabbing Dareus was a decent move, the trading of Sheppard for Hughes was freaking brilliant (was that Nix's move?) though Marv Levy drafted Kyle, which is one of the best draft picks of the decade. Yet Marv whiffed on so many other players. I don't know what Whaley has done right, if anything.

 

So in one year... Preston Brown is not better than Arthur Moats? Sammy Watkins isn't better than Stevie Johnson? Seantrell Henderson isn't better than Erik Pears despite taking his job? That's three good rookies who have majorly contributed to a 9-7 team. Hughes for Sheppard was a steal. Dixon was a good pickup. Gray was a good pickup, as was Thigpen. Charles was another good get (although last year). Yeah there were some bad ones like Kujo, although I wouldn't write him off yet. Bryce Brown has to get better but I'd take him over Spiller right now for 2015.

 

If you have an ac to grind about talent, I think you're off base. Arguably Whaley, and Nix, have put some very good talent on this roster after some horrible first round picks that handicapped this team during this run of futility (Fat Mike Williams, Erik Flowers, Willis McGahee, etc...)

[PastaJoe]

Beckham and next year's 1st wasn't going to happen though. It's easy to say we should have done "x" in hindsight. They are on record as saying that Ebron was the pick if they couldn't trade up.

 

QB is a massive need but they don't grow on trees. Your realistic options are probably RG, Cutler, Hoyer or Bradford. You can't just act like some guy that doesn't exist was going to be picked at 20 and be the franchise guy. If Connor Cook was coming out he may have fallen into that category but he has said that he is going back to school.

 

I also believe that the Bills are a better football team than the winner of the NFC South. I am basing this on the number of games that each team won.

 

I'm saying what I would have done, not what they would have, which is another reason I don't have faith in Whaley. Again, they didn't know they would be picking at 20 or who was coming out when the trade was made. But it all goes back to their faith in the QBs they had, another mistake. And the record of a team isn't the only criteria to judge teams. I put more emphasis on who makes the playoffs. We'll have to agree to disagree.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

I'm saying what I would have done, not what they would have, which is another reason I don't have faith in Whaley. Again, they didn't know they would be picking at 20 or who was coming out when the trade was made. But it all goes back to their faith in the QBs they had, another mistake. And the record of a team isn't the only criteria to judge teams. I put more emphasis on who makes the playoffs. We'll have to agree to disagree.

I don't disagree at all that having faith in the QBs was a mistake. It absolutely was. That's more than fair. If that is the criteria that you are judging Whaley on go for it.

 

I don't remember many (or any) people clamoring for Beckham. I liked him as much as just about anyone here and I was pretty indifferent. I watch a lot of LSU living there and thought that he would be good. I wouldn't have hated the pick but wpuldn't have jumped up and down either. If that was your guy prior to the draft kudos to you.

 

I would love to make the playoffs but the point that I was making is that teams can't control things like tiebreakers. Dallas & Seattle may finish with the same record and Dallas beat Seattle but Seattle will be the 1 seed (at least I think). That's not fair to Dallas but it is what it is. You can only control the games that you play in. Winning 9 of them is better tha winning 7. A few teams will end up with better years than Carolina or Atlanta but that is the way that it is structured. It doesn't mean that they were the better team they just have a better situation. It sucks but someone is going to be lucky and someone unlucky.

 

If the Bills would have won last week and finished 10-6 I don't think that their season would have been different from Baltimore's even though the Ravens would have had the playoff spot. I don't think that a team winning an extra game against a common opponent means that they are better. The line has to be drawn somewhere and that's where they choose to draw it.

Edited December 28, 2014 by Kirby Jackson

[rfk]

With all the speculation regarding changes in the front office, I started to ponder this question. Whaley's tenure has been more about missed 1st round picks with EJ and Watkins. Nix did a pretty good job bringing in talent over the last few years before he left. Whaley has done a great job in free agency, bringing in guys like Hughes, Lawson, and Graham. It's clear that this team has more talent than any team in the past 15 years (minus QB), so who is more responsible ?

Scuse me I just puked in my beer mug...Nix was the absolute worse...right up and including EJ

[TPS]

Scuse me I just puked in my beer mug...Nix was the absolute worse...right up and including EJ

Actually, Nix and Whaley combined made this roster better than it's been in over 10 years. Thanks to both. You can whine about a QB, but half the teams in the league have been struggling to find their own franchise guy.

[RuffMuff]

What QB would you want between picks 18-20 this year? Who specifically is that guy?

 

I just love this logic. Fans should be providing the Bills with whom to pick. Anybody could have picked Sammy at 4 or Darius at 2. Quality players like QB Wilson in the later round picks are the Bills full time job and thats what they get PAID to do. At this rate, they are no better then any of us, and thats not accepatable. Nix sucked at it, Whaley isnt that much more impressive so far.

 

Nix was worse he traded Beast Mode, Whaley traded for Hughes. Plus didnt NIX trade Peters? WTF? Nuff said...

[thewildrabbit]

Actually, Nix and Whaley combined made this roster better than it's been in over 10 years. Thanks to both. You can whine about a QB, but half the teams in the league have been struggling to find their own franchise guy.

Exactly where did the Bills get better on the roster then its been in the last ten years? This year team had very few injuries in comparison to the years of Jauron, Gaileys teams

 

This years O line was graded as the worst in the league, and only slightly improved with Richardson on the bench, and Urbik in at LG. Then again they were pretty much man handled by a 2-12 team in the Raiders.

 

Lee Evans, Stevie Johnson were both 1000 yard receivers, and Lynch, Spiller, Jackson had 1000 yard rushing years in the past. Their most experienced WR is Robert Woods in his second year.

 

 

The Bills have had 9 of 11 players that were either 1st or 2nd round draft picks on the defensive side for years, and it got them nowhere. The biggest improvement I see is from hiring a DC that actually knows how to game plan, and make adjustments during a game!

 

The team still needs a franchise QB, and has needed two decent starting OG's going on three years now. If Jim Schwartz takes a head coaching job with another team. Then what are the odds this team doesn't even have a winning record in 2015.

[TPS]

Exactly where did the Bills get better on the roster then its been in the last ten years? This year team had very few injuries in comparison to the years of Jauron, Gaileys teams

 

This years O line was graded as the worst in the league, and only slightly improved with Richardson on the bench, and Urbik in at LG. Then again they were pretty much man handled by a 2-12 team in the Raiders.

 

Lee Evans, Stevie Johnson were both 1000 yard receivers, and Lynch, Spiller, Jackson had 1000 yard rushing years in the past. Their most experienced WR is Robert Woods in his second year.

 

 

The Bills have had 9 of 11 players that were either 1st or 2nd round draft picks on the defensive side for years, and it got them nowhere. The biggest improvement I see is from hiring a DC that actually knows how to game plan, and make adjustments during a game!

 

The team still needs a franchise QB, and has needed two decent starting OG's going on three years now. If Jim Schwartz takes a head coaching job with another team. Then what are the odds this team doesn't even have a winning record in 2015.

I think it's the coaching on O, not the talent.

After Stevie, who'd they have? Who did Evans have opposite? I recall they brought Peerless back, but he was average. Imagine what Gailey could do with these receivers?

 

We had Spiller, FJ, Boobie, and Brown. the only time it was better was when they had Lynch for one year.

 

I think the Oline issue is more about coaching. I assume Whaley brings in players to fit Marrone's system. the reason they let reinhart go and Urbik was in the dog house. Whaley did draft 3 OL in 2014.

 

The D has more depth than it's ever had.

 

Yes, at least 15 other teams need a franchise QB too...

Edited December 29, 2014 by TPS

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Nix

[GunnerBill]

It's the same negative people on here. It's getting old. Obviously they aren't perfect but they may very well be 3 games better than last year. That's progress despite what some of the doom and gloom posters want to admit.

 

BillsVet says there is no tangiable improvement because 6 wins and 9 wins are the same if you still miss the play-offs. At least that is what I understand to be the position. Personally I am with you. Buddy started with a roster that was talent bare. He left a roster that was much improved but had basically no Quarterback which was a big black mark. The Whaley / Marrone regime has made strieds and the record shows that. They might not have shown us the baby yet... but I feel as though they have shown us a positive pregnancy test.