Who gets more credit for improved talent on roster...Whaley or Nix?

[BillsVet]

It's the same negative people on here. It's getting old. Obviously they aren't perfect but they may very well be 3 games better than last year. That's progress despite what some of the doom and gloom posters want to admit.

 

How can a fan be negative if the cumulative record since 2010 is 30-49? Ironically, that's about the same record Donahoe had from 2001-05.

 

Progress and potential are the same thing to me...it means you ain't done anything yet.

[FireChan]

Where am I wrong? If Watkins woulda been gone, you still had a shot at several other wideouts that were put up similiar numbers to Watkins.

 

It's FACT that NONE of the gentleman I mentioned did anything to fix our qb problems, how can I be wrong there?

 

And if you think Kujo or Henderson will ever be dependable starters and help this O-line, I'd like to see what you see?

 

I'll show ya, don't worry.

 

While I love Sammy Watkins, who's to say he wouldn't have been on the board at 9 anyway? And I've questioned the logic of getting a speedy wideout, when you don't have anyone to get him the ball anyway?

 

Levy, Nix, Brandon, and Whaley have ALL refused to make QB priority one, and we still pay for it!

 

And as TimTebow15 points out above, Henderson and Kujo are two of the worst missed picks in recent memory.

 

I have followed this team loyally for 40 years, and if I'm forced to watch another season of Nate Hackett and bull **** quarterback play, I may have to reevaluate what I do on Sunday's next fall.

 

And I've questioned the logic of getting a speedy wideout, when you don't have anyone to get him the ball anyway?

 

Speedy as opposed to slow? Speed isn't the only thing in Sammy's arsenal. And he was the most polished WR in the draft. Minus 1.

 

Levy, Nix, Brandon, and Whaley have ALL refused to make QB priority one, and we still pay for it!

 

I seem to recall Whaley's first draft as taking a QB with our first pick. By definition, that's prioritizing. Here are some links for you. Minus 2.

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/first

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/priority

 

And as TimTebow15 points out above, Henderson and Kujo are two of the worst missed picks in recent memory.

 

In one breath, you claim we didn't prioritize on the QB, who is the most important of positions. But we did get one and he wasn't good. Yet a 7th round RT is worse as a missed pick? Minus 3.

 

I have followed this team loyally for 40 years, and if I'm forced to watch another season of Nate Hackett and bull **** quarterback play, I may have to reevaluate what I do on Sunday's next fall.

 

Minus points for lame "I'm so done with this team," comment. This isn't a pity part.

 

Negative 4 is your total.

 

you are wrong because you are criticizing the potential (but hopefully not) continued management structure and therefore are perceived as disrespecting other fans hopes.

 

Close, but no cigar.

[OldTimer1960]

F#$k Buddy Nix! How many first round picks did he blow, while his arrogant attitude, and insistance that "Ryan's our guy" missed on how many quarterbacks?

 

The whole T.J. Graham deal pisses me off enough to fight the fat bastard every time I think of it!

 

The only thing he did well was get the hell out of Orchard Park!

 

Sorry for the rant, but I hated the appointment of Nix when they did it, and hold Russ Brandon equally accountable for us still not having a quarterback that can accurately throw an accurate pass longer than 5 yards!

 

In terms of QBs that Nix "ignored", the following stellar QBs were available when the Bills selected:

Josh Freeman, Pat White, Tim Tebow, Jimmy Clausen, Colt McCoy, John Skelton, Christian Ponder, Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick, Ryan Mallett, Brandon Weedon, Brock Osweiller, Russell Wilson, Nick Foles and Kirk Cousins.

 

I'll grant that Wilson has turned out much better than expected - but he hasn't had to carry a team by himself as he is supported by a great defense and outstanding running game.

 

Dalton is arguably better than Kyle Orton, but he hasn't performed well in pressure situations. Colin Kaepernick is not as good as advertised and has faded - he may still become a high end starter, but that doesn't look like a sure thing now. Finally, Nick Foles had a great 2013, but was not playing especially well this year before being injured.

 

Beyond those guys, who did they blatantly ignore?

 

 

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

How can a fan be negative if the cumulative record since 2010 is 30-49? Ironically, that's about the same record Donahoe had from 2001-05.

 

Progress and potential are the same thing to me...it means you ain't done anything yet.

6-10 to 8-8 or 9-7 is progress. That's a fact. Are they at the ultimate goal yet -no. They won't be until they win a Super Bowl. The goal isn't a wild card. What happened in 2010 means absolutely ZERO now. They went to 4 straight Super Bowls in the early 90's. What does that have to do with today? There is no reason to even reference it. This year was progress but not finished.

[BillsVet]

6-10 to 8-8 or 9-7 is progress. That's a fact. Are they at the ultimate goal yet -no. They won't be until they win a Super Bowl. The goal isn't a wild card. What happened in 2010 means absolutely ZERO now. They went to 4 straight Super Bowls in the early 90's. What does that have to do with today? There is no reason to even reference it. This year was progress but not finished.

 

Nice straw-man argument there talking about a Super Bowl win. No one expected that in 2014. But a playoff appearance was a reasonable expectation.

 

My question to you is: Would you brief the new owner and highlight winning 2 more games? Do you think that's good enough when you trade up for Watkins, then bench Manuel and sign Orton?

[PastaJoe]

It's the same negative people on here. It's getting old. Obviously they aren't perfect but they may very well be 3 games better than last year. That's progress despite what some of the doom and gloom posters want to admit.

 

It's the same unrealistic people on here. It's getting old. Obviously they aren't perfect as they've missed the playoffs for a 15th straight year. That's not progress despite what some of the unicorn and rainbows posters want to admit.

[FireChan]

Nice straw-man argument there talking about a Super Bowl win. No one expected that in 2014. But a playoff appearance was a reasonable expectation.

 

My question to you is: Would you brief the new owner and highlight winning 2 more games? Do you think that's good enough when you trade up for Watkins, then bench Manuel and sign Orton?

 

3 more. Best record in 15 years. Yeah, I'd highlight that.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

Nice straw-man argument there talking about a Super Bowl win. No one expected that in 2014. But a playoff appearance was a reasonable expectation.

 

My question to you is: Would you brief the new owner and highlight winning 2 more games? Do you think that's good enough when you trade up for Watkins, then bench Manuel and sign Orton?

Straw man argument??? I am not the one that thought 2010 was relevant. That was your crusade. 2014 is the only year relevant to the status of the team.

 

I think that it will end up as a 3 win improvement. I don't know why anyone would dismiss that as nothing? The only way that one could is to crusade for their agenda. They are much better than they were but not where they need to be.

 

 

 

It's the same unrealistic people on here. It's getting old. Obviously they aren't perfect as they've missed the playoffs for a 15th straight year. That's not progress despite what some of the unicorn and rainbows posters want to admit.

So who had a better year the NFC South winner or the Bills?

[birdog1960]

3 more. Best record in 15 years. Yeah, I'd highlight that.

and exactly no one is surprised by this. mrs brandon? is that you?

[FireChan]

and exactly no one is surprised by this. mrs brandon? is that you?

 

What?

[birdog1960]

Straw man argument??? I am not the one that thought 2010 was relevant. That was your crusade. 2014 is the only year relevant to the status of the team.

 

I think that it will end up as a 3 win improvement. I don't know why anyone would dismiss that as nothing? The only way that one could is to crusade for their agenda. They are much better than they were but not where they need to be.

 

So who had a better year the NFC South winner or the Bills?

actually, 2013 and 12 are relevant in relativity to 2014. how would you rate management performance if the bills were 12-4 and won the afc in 2012 relative to this years performance?

 

when you look at what pete carroll has done in seattle, do you consider the quality of the organization before he took over?

Edited December 28, 2014 by birdog1960

[Kirby Jackson]

actually, 2013 and 12 are relevant in relativity to 2014. how would you rate management performance if the bills were 12-4 and won the afc in 2012 relative to this years performance?

 

when you look at what pete carroll has done in seattle, do you consider the quality of the organization before he took over?

The 12-4 argument is a perfect one when you look at someone like the Saints. It is a MESS there at the moment. A total mess but they won prior. They clearly made some bad decisions and are in a bad place for it. They have regressed. The Bills have progressed. Again, neither team's past performance is important. Where are you today? You are building next year's team off of this year's team not the team from 5 years ago.

 

The Bills need a QB, an OC, a TE and 2 OL. That's totally different than 2010. If they can address those areas I expect them to take another step forward. If not than they will probably regress. At the moment they are going in the right direction and it can't be argued otherwise. That is a fact.

Edited December 28, 2014 by Kirby Jackson

[PastaJoe]

So who had a better year the NFC South winner or the Bills?

 

Obviously the NFC South winner; they won when they needed to make the playoffs. Now they have a better chance than the Bills at winning the Super Bowl.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

Obviously the NFC South winner; they won when they needed to make the playoffs. Now they have a better chance than the Bills at winning the Super Bowl.

So 7 wins > 9 wins got it.

[PastaJoe]

So 7 wins > 9 wins got it.

 

Playoffs > no playoffs.

[Thunderstealer]

Nix did give us quite a few really good players and key contributors to this team. Whaley's impact as GM is yet to be determined. Although, he was in charge of scouting and pro personnel so he probably had as much to do with our roster as Nix.

 

It's hard to not draft quite a few really good players.

 

He didn't pull the trigger on Russell Wilson when qb was a position of need. He failed.

[BillsVet]

Straw man argument??? I am not the one that thought 2010 was relevant. That was your crusade. 2014 is the only year relevant to the status of the team.

 

I think that it will end up as a 3 win improvement. I don't know why anyone would dismiss that as nothing? The only way that one could is to crusade for their agenda. They are much better than they were but not where they need to be.

 

The most recent rebuild started in 2010 when Whaley and Nix were hired, and since then most of the players on this team were acquired.

 

Did anyone highlight the 4 to 6 win improvement in 2010-11? That meant nothing when they won 6 games in 2012 and then 2013. If there's one thing that should be fact, it's that success doesn't translate from one season to the next, particularly when you don't have a top QB.

 

If there's an agenda, it's people who make excuses when the team doesn't live up to expectations. I already see the goal-posts being moved to get some critical fans away from declaring it was a playoffs or bust season as described by the GM, among others.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

Playoffs > no playoffs.

You can't control your division. That's the point. Your goal is to win as many games as you can. Is 9 wins perfect? Of course not but it's better than the 6 from last year or the 7 of those garbage NFC South teams.

 

 

 

The most recent rebuild started in 2010 when Whaley and Nix were hired, and since then most of the players on this team were acquired.

 

Did anyone highlight the 4 to 6 win improvement in 2010-11? That meant nothing when they won 6 games in 2012 and then 2013. If there's one thing that should be fact, it's that success doesn't translate from one season to the next, particularly when you don't have a top QB.

 

If there's an agenda, it's people who make excuses when the team doesn't live up to expectations. I already see the goal-posts being moved to get some critical fans away from declaring it was a playoffs or bust season as described by the GM, among others.

No one is moving the goal posts on this end. I have said that it is an improvement. That is a fact. I have also said that a wild card berth isn't the goal. That isn't how to measure success or failure. The only thing that matters is a championship. Are the Bills closer to a Super Bowl than a year ago? Absolutely, but to your point they need a QB to get there. They need an OC as well but it is certainly a start. Edited December 28, 2014 by Kirby Jackson

[thewildrabbit]

I think Buddy Nix screwed this franchise from the Spiller pick, Cornell Green at RT. To hiring HC Chan Gailey, and then not even attempting to draft a franchise QB in his three years as GM. I see six starters from the 27 draft picks.

 

Basically three years wasted under Nix IMO. I think the misconception that Nix drastically improved the talent on the team is a very misleading statement. He basically took a 7-9 / 6-10 Jauron team and went 4-12. The Bills had some decent talent on the team in 2009, and so much so that Nix only replaced like five players on the entire roster.

 

About the only thing I give the guy credit for was getting rid of chief scout Tom Modrak. The offensive scouting staff still sucks with so many mistakes on the offensive side the last five years.

 

Lets trade away Marshawn Lynch for a 4th

 

The baby was stillborn 16-32 under Nix as GM.

[harv shitz]

I have the same hopes as everyone on here, therefore no dissrespect is meant to anyone. Just making points of where we came up short.

 

I personally think Nix was subpar at best, and am not sure on Whaley yet. I still believe there is a good chance Watkins would still have been on the board without the trade, and if he wasn't, Odell Beckham was.

 

And I strongly believe Kujo and Henderson are terrible. Sorry for being realistic.