PastaJoe Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 You can't control your division. That's the point. Your goal is to win as many games as you can. Is 9 wins perfect? Of course not but it's better than the 6 from last year or the 7 of those garbage NFC South teams. And the Bills beat Chicago who had 2 injured receivers, Minnesota without Peterson, Detroit without Megatron, and the Pats backups. So should we discount those wins because they don't control other teams's rosters? The Bills lost to Houston, Miami, and Oakland. They didn't win when they needed to. The winner of the NFC South will today. That's a more successful team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 I have the same hopes as everyone on here, therefore no dissrespect is meant to anyone. Just making points of where we came up short. I personally think Nix was subpar at best, and am not sure on Whaley yet. I still believe there is a good chance Watkins would still have been on the board without the trade, and if he wasn't, Odell Beckham was. And I strongly believe Kujo and Henderson are terrible. Sorry for being realistic. If you believe that Watkins may have been on the board at 9 you don't follow the draft too closely. Whether it was a good move or not can be debated but there was no chance that he was lasting until 9. Henderson was a 7th round pick that started all year. That's good value. CK is awful and was a waste of a 2nd. That's where he was projected though. He was actually invited to the draft. Someone was going to make a mistake in selecting him and unfortunately it was the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 No one is moving the goal posts on this end. I have said that it is an improvement. That is a fact. I have also said that a wild card birth isn't the goal. That isn't how to measure success or failure. The only thing that matters is a championship. Are the Bills closer to a Super Bowl than a year ago? Absolutely, but to your point they need a QB to get there. They need an OC as well but it is certainly a start. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000366156/article/doug-whaley-bills-planning-to-be-a-playoff-team Do you disagree with the GM on their goal for 2014? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 And the Bills beat Chicago who had 2 injured receivers, Minnesota without Peterson, Detroit without Megatron, and the Pats backups. So should we discount those wins because they don't control other teams's rosters? The Bills lost to Houston, Miami, and Oakland. They didn't win when they needed to. The winner of the NFC South will today. That's a more successful team. You cant control anyone else's roster. You are making my point for me. Every team has sitiations like that. The Bills played without 2 of their best 10 players today and didn't have Kilo all year. You can only control the games that you are playing in and winning 9 of them is better than winning 7. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000366156/article/doug-whaley-bills-planning-to-be-a-playoff-team Do you disagree with the GM on their goal for 2014? I don't agree that playoffs is a real goal. There is only 1 goal and that's a championship. If the Bills would have won 10 games that would be the same to me as playoffs. Some arbitrary tiebreakers don't determine who had a better year the Bills or Ravens for example. With that being said the Bills won 9 and not 10. They are closer to a championship than they were a year ago. Are they there yet? No, but with a few tweaks can be a legit contender. I want this offseason to be one in which they plug some of those holes and get closer to a title not a wild card spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 http://www.nfl.com/n...-a-playoff-team Do you disagree with the GM on their goal for 2014? That's what I thought at the beginning of the season and stated such. We need to make the playoffs this year or it is a disappointment, and we didn't. I thought, and still think, that Whaley had built a playoff roster. I also think with better coaching we would have and probably should have snuck in. If I were Pegula I would make Marrone make changes. Say we like you, we just need to do better on offense. If Marrone quits over it, he quits. 9-7 is a decent record with this team, it's just not "good" IMO. We need to be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 (edited) To be sure, Buddy Nix missed some high picks - as pretty much all teams do. But Nix did draft Eric Wood, Andy Levitre, Jairus Byrd (all in the same draft), CJ Spiller, Marcel Dareus, Aaron Williams, DaNorris Searcy, Stephon Gilmore, Cordy Glenn, Nigel Bradham and Ron Brooks. Not sure whether Nix or Whaley made the pics in 2013, but that draft netted Robert Woods, Kiko Alonso and Duke Williams. I think Nix's first draft was 2010, and his first #1 was CJ. He was named GM on 12/31/09. If you give him credit for Wood et al, then he'd also get the blame for Maybin--but that wasn't him. His 2010 draft was the worst. You can say he hit 5/9 in 2011 if you count trading Sheppard for Hughes. There are 4/9 left from 2012. It's hard to judge Whaley this early, and 2013 is a mix of the two, but there are 7/8 on the team. All 7 draft picks from 2014 are on the team, and 3 are starters. Based on that alone, I'd say Whaley is the better talent evaluator. In fact, if Kuoandjio pans out, 2014 could be their best draft since Butler left town. Whaley's made some good trades, but he hasn't done well with FAs. That said, it would be foolish to let him go. If it came down to coach v GM, Whaley has the better track record imho. That's what I thought at the beginning of the season and stated such. We need to make the playoffs this year or it is a disappointment, and we didn't. I thought, and still think, that Whaley had built a playoff roster. I also think with better coaching we would have and probably should have snuck in. If I were Pegula I would make Marrone make changes. Say we like you, we just need to do better on offense. If Marrone quits over it, he quits. 9-7 is a decent record with this team, it's just not "good" IMO. We need to be good. Yes, the D carried this team. The O and Oline stunk. A good coach would,vd had this team in the playoffs. Edited December 28, 2014 by TPS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Thinking that missing the playoffs is still a good season is like a beaten dog being given a bone and thinking it has a good owner. You're satisfied with anything better than before. And needing a new starting QB is not a tweek, it's a major issue. One that now can't be resolved with their 1st round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Thinking that missing the playoffs is still a good season is like a beaten dog being given a bone and thinking it has a good owner. You're satisfied with anything better than before. And needing a new starting QB is not a tweek, it's a major issue. One that now can't be resolved with their 1st round pick. #20 will be a QB who is on par or worse a prospect as EJ. What will we do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Thinking that missing the playoffs is still a good season is like a beaten dog being given a bone and thinking it has a good owner. You're satisfied with anything better than before. And needing a new starting QB is not a tweek, it's a major issue. One that now can't be resolved with their 1st round pick. What QB would you want between picks 18-20 this year? Who specifically is that guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 What QB would you want between picks 18-20 this year? Who specifically is that guy? The point is they've lost any leverage they had to trade up in draft. So now their only option is other team's cast offs. Probably the best option is RG III. But I'm afraid their arrogance in trying to prove they were right will cause them to stay with Orton and EJ. And that will not result in a better season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 The point is they've lost any leverage they had to trade up in draft. So now their only option is other team's cast offs. Probably the best option is RG III. But I'm afraid their arrogance in trying to prove they were right will cause them to stay with Orton and EJ. And that will not result in a better season. What the heck are you talking about? Are you trying to insinuate that Whaley had no idea who would be in the 2015 draft when deciding to take Sammy in the 2014 draft? He thought no QB was worth it. These guys don't just close their eyes and hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 These guys don't just close their eyes and hope. They did with EJ. And they're still hoping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 They did with EJ. And they're still hoping. What? Are you even trying to make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 (edited) The point is they've lost any leverage they had to trade up in draft. So now their only option is other team's cast offs. Probably the best option is RG III. But I'm afraid their arrogance in trying to prove they were right will cause them to stay with Orton and EJ. And that will not result in a better season. So a QB needy team in the top 5 (Jets, Bucs, Titans, etc) is going to trade out and pass up on 1 of the 2 potential franchise QBs in the draft? That's just not true. You would have paid a kings ransom to MAYBE get to # 2 if the Titans like Mettenberger. It is a really weak argument because that QB that you are worried about missing out on at 20 doesn't exist. You can maybe get RG, Bradford or Cutler but those are the realistic options. A 1st round pick for a QB this year wasn't an option anyways. Edited December 28, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Nobody knows for sure because no one is sure who made the final call on Marrone and EJ. We know Spiller is a bust and TJ Graham is a bust and Troupe is a bust. Those were all on Nix. Whaley so far has a second round OL pick that didn't dress for a single game on a team with the worst OL in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 We'll never know because it's now not an option. But the original point remains; playoff team > non playoff team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonabb Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 OK this is sort of related and I don't like to start threads but man the talent question is interesting. I'm for talent first and coaching second. But its now the time of year when every blowhard with a website has an opinion on team needs and picks and they are often so laughable that they destroy any credibility the author may have actually had. Gil Brandt, who many like, has the top three position needs as QB, LB, and S. It's certain that few can know exactly what a team's needs are but it should be obvious what aren't needs and LB sure as hell isn't one. And to not mention OL is a joke and underscores how little the average nation honk knows about every team. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000407751/article/updated-2015-nfl-draft-order-top-3-needs-for-all-32-teams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 OK this is sort of related and I don't like to start threads but man the talent question is interesting. I'm for talent first and coaching second. But its now the time of year when every blowhard with a website has an opinion on team needs and picks and they are often so laughable that they destroy any credibility the author may have actually had. Gil Brandt, who many like, has the top three position needs as QB, LB, and S. It's certain that few can know exactly what a team's needs are but it should be obvious what aren't needs and LB sure as hell isn't one. And to not mention OL is a joke and underscores how little the average nation honk knows about every team. http://www.nfl.com/n...or-all-32-teams I didnt read the article but that sounds like it was written before this year started, because that's what we needed before this year. Kiko was gone and we had no LBs, and Byrd was gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 (edited) We'll never know because it's now not an option. But the original point remains; playoff team > non playoff team. You are just digging in now. You said that we missed out on the chance to get a QB that doesn't exist. If that is why you are upset about the trade take a deep breath because they didn't miss out on a QB by trading for Sammy. They may have missed out on a guard (there probably isn't a TE worthy of that pick either). The question is would you rather have Watkins or Ebron & (ironically enough) Ereck Flowers? That is what the trade actually meant. Edited December 28, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonabb Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 I didnt read the article but that sounds like it was written before this year started, because that's what we needed before this year. Kiko was gone and we had no LBs, and Byrd was gone. It was written five days ago! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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