Kirby Jackson Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 Whaley's experience has been in pro player evalualion and that really showed with his pickups this year. IMO, he's still learning the college talent evaluation side and has had a few misses to go with the hits. Still, I agree, he's shown much, much more than Chris Polian and it would be a mistake to go that direction... I think that is fair and a really interesting perspective. That hadn't crossed my mind. FWIW, one of my best friends is Kevin Colbert's nephew and they are extremely close. Colbert thinks the world of Whaley. I wouldn't expect him to say anything negative but it's still good to hear.
CodeMonkey Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 (edited) Am I missing something? During the game on TV yesterday they had a Polian quote 100% denying taking a job with the Bills. Why is this thread still going? Edited December 29, 2014 by CodeMonkey
Kirby Jackson Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 The Director of Pro Personnel is in charge of players currently in the NFL. This was the role that John Guy used to hold & Modrak on the college side.
K-9 Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 Why should bandit give you any of that? Your credibility is shot with your absurd notion that a Director of Pro Personal is also in charge of scouting college players? There isn't enough time in the day for one guy to head up both Dept's. Especially in season. GO BILLS!
Kirby Jackson Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 Am I missing something? During the game on TV yesterday they had a Polian quote 100% denying taking a job with the Bills. Why is this thread still going? He said that he won't be taking the Buffalo job on Monday. He was very careful with his words. A lot of reliable people have heard that he is on the way. What Bill Polian's role will be is TBD.
Fadingpain Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 Am I missing something? During the game on TV yesterday they had a Polian quote 100% denying taking a job with the Bills. Why is this thread still going? Often with this sort of thing, the more vehement the denial, the more likely the rumor is to be true. I am not saying that is the case at all with Polian. I have no idea whatsoever... These rumors will persist until it is obvious they were false with the passage of time.
CodeMonkey Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 Often with this sort of thing, the more vehement the denial, the more likely the rumor is to be true. Or, Occam's razor
negativo Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 This is not true. http://www.nationalf...l-Director.html http://jacksonville....rs-chris-polian There is a position called Director of Player Personnel, which might be what you're thinking of. That is not Polian's position. Dave Caldwell is the GM in Jax and has the power. Most Pro Personnel scouts perform dual rolls in scouting pro and college for talent. In the case of Jacksonville they have no Director of Player Personnel.
dave mcbride Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 (edited) Most Pro Personnel scouts perform dual rolls in scouting pro and college for talent. In the case of Jacksonville they have no Director of Player Personnel. That's actually not true. In any event, Caldwell's background is as a college scout, and he runs it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Caldwell_%28American_football_executive%29 Edited December 29, 2014 by dave mcbride
GA BILLS FAN Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 I'd love to see Bill Polian back as VP, Football Operations with Whaley reporting to him. I think Whaley would benefit from having a mentor like Polian. I think overall, Whaley is a decent talent evaluator but clearly panicked with the Watkins trade.
Lurker Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 He said that he won't be taking the Buffalo job on Monday. He was very careful with his words. A lot of reliable people have heard that he is on the way. What Bill Polian's role will be is TBD. I thought Bill's wording was unusual as well. I could see him in a "Pat LaFontaine short-term consultant" engagement thingy, but to what end? Unless he could make a franchise QB magically appear out of a hat (which wasn't how he got one in Indy), I don't see a lot of value from a guy who's been out of a day-to-day job since 2011...
negativo Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 That's actually not true. In any event, Caldwell's background is as a college scout, and he runs it. http://en.wikipedia....ball_executive) Actually, you are right on this point. I did some research and found his position is actually titled Director of Pro Scouting. In this capacity he is not tasked with college scouting.
Reed83HOF Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 I'd love to see Bill Polian back as VP, Football Operations with Whaley reporting to him. I think Whaley would benefit from having a mentor like Polian. I think overall, Whaley is a decent talent evaluator but clearly panicked with the Watkins trade. This is what should happen; Chris has no role in this. After listening to today's presser, lots of contact still occurs with Russ - it is time to fully seperate the Football and Business sides of the house.. Regardless of what "the game has passed him by crowd" the guy has always had an eye for talent, you don't just lose that... He will be a great source of information for Whaley and has tons of contacts throughout the entire league to help build that side back up where ever the deficiencies are.
GA BILLS FAN Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 This board amazes me sometimes. We got more people defending Brandon (a 15-year LOSER) and Orton (a BELOW AVERAGE journeymen QB that hasn't won squat) than we have people defending the greatest GM in Buffalo Bill history and perhaps one of the 5 best GM's in NFL history. What a joke.
vorpma Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 This board amazes me sometimes. We got more people defending Brandon (a 15-year LOSER) and Orton (a BELOW AVERAGE journeymen QB that hasn't won squat) than we have people defending the greatest GM in Buffalo Bill history and perhaps one of the 5 best GM's in NFL history. What a joke.
gpodpdx Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 I've read several times the past few days that Bill Polian has no interest in coming back and won't.
thebandit27 Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 (edited) Actually, the Director Of Pro Personnel is responsible for heading the scouting personnel for both the college draft and pro talent evaluation. Please explain the following in detail. Why do you believe the position as Chris Polian served is different than how it's outlined for every other Director of Pro Personnel as identified by the NFL? While Bortles did have some struggles as a rookie, virtually everyone believes he upgraded the position for the Jags when installed as starter. Most agree he showed enough athleticism, leadership and toughness to earn his job as starter and position taken in the draft. Please defend your position against this consensus, and provide specific examples of other insiders who share your opinion. To start, you are not correct about what the Director of Pro Personnel does...I'll let National Football Post explain more thoroughly: http://www.nationalf...l-Director.html Teams have both a Director of Pro Personnel and a Director of College Scouting for a reason. One handles pro personnel, and one handles college scouting. Now, onto your numbered points: 1. It isn't, as explained above. You are confusing Director of Pro Personnel with Director of Player Personnel; they are different. 2. I'm not the one that called the selection of Bortles a success, so while I'm happy to back my opinion, simply stating "the consensus is" without providing any backing is useless, so I'll fully anticipate that you'll back up your snarky comments with some type of facts in return. Regardless, here goes: His record as a starter was horrible--3-11. His passing statistics were lousy. 24th in yards, 32nd in YPA, 33rd in QB rating, 11:17 TD:INT ratio, 30th in total QBR...should I go on? Now, please defend your opinion against every single measurable statistic that would indicate that he was awful this year. Thank you in advance. So, you conveniently chose to ignore his long history of successes with Indianapolis to focus on the season that fell apart without Manning? Guess that means you believe Bill Polian is also an abject failure since he was his boss at the time. Please clarify the following. Provide a detailed explanation of why you apparently believe Bill Polian doesn't deserve credit for the success of the Colts franchise, and why he is not worthy of being a to be a hall of famer. Provide credible evidence of your inferred claim that Chris Polian was not responsible for the success of helping build the Colts, and before that the Panthers, to prominence in the NFL. Give sourced evidence to defend how you apparently believe Whaley would have done a better than the Polians if placed in the same capacity when nobody else in the football world would ever make such a ridiculous argument. Oh good, another extremely snarky response layered with totally incorrect assertions and nebulous opinions! 1. First, do not presume to put words into my mouth about Bill Polian. We were discussing Chris, and you decided to shift the argument because, well, I'm not sure why, but it was dumb, and a non-sequitur at that. Chris took over as GM in 2009--I'd have thought you knew that, but nevertheless, I'm happy to educate you: http://content.usato...t/1#.VKHKpf8w4A Prior to that time, he served primarily on the pro personnel side of things under Bill. If we're to assume that, as GM, he presided over the drafts starting in 2009--and until he was dismissed following the 2011 season--please tell me which of those you'd be happy with: http://www.nfl.com/d...=2200&type=team There is exactly 1 draft pick from those 3 draft classes still on the team. Perhaps that's your definition of a "long track record of success"...if so, I'd encourage you to aim higher. 2. He never worked for the Panthers, at least not according to his professional profile: http://www.jaguars.c...ris-polian.html 3. Here's Whaley's 2 drafts so that you can compare them to Chris Polian's 3 drafts: http://www.nfl.com/d...=0610&type=team Now, feel free to back up your assertion that Chris Polian has a "long track record of success" It is widely believed in football circles that Whaley has made very expensive mistakes at the top of the draft, and his FA success has been mixed at best. Against all conventional wisdom, Whaley kept CJ Spiller on the roster when the team had a window to trade him for some value. He also bungled the QB position two years in a row, first signing damaged goods QB Kevin Kolb without doing proper due dilligence, and then left the position in chaos thispreseason, waiting until the week of the regular season opener to overpay for journeyman Kyle Orton, who eventually took over and did a sub-par job in relief of his top pick bust EJ Manuel. These are only some of the reasons he is widely regarded to be in over his head. You apparently have the contrarian opinion, therefore please explain beyond reasonable doubt why your minority opinion has merit. I trust you have some type of source to back up this widely held belief that he made expensive mistakes? Please, by all means, post a credible source citing this...I mean, I'm sure, given your pretention for asking for such sources, that you wouldn't just interject your opinion in place of one, right? Basically, it seems your opinion that Whaley is in over his head is founded upon one thing: that the QB selected with the 16th pick in 2013--a draft in which Whaley was not yet the GM--did not result in a franchise QB. Lastly, it would be wise to refrain from challenging people to come up with conclusions that go beyond a reasonable doubt. Two reasons here: 1) this isn't a court of law, and asking for that is pretentious at best, and complete jackassery at worst, 2) it's hard to present conclusions that go beyond a reasonable doubt when the person to whom I'm responding isn't reasonable. Why should bandit give you any of that? Your credibility is shot with your absurd notion that a Director of Pro Personal is also in charge of scouting college players? There isn't enough time in the day for one guy to head up both Dept's. Especially in season. GO BILLS! Because, on occasion, smacking around a pretentious know-nothing can be fun. Edited December 29, 2014 by thebandit27
Fadingpain Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 Or, Occam's razor Not really. But it doesn't matter. Occam's razor says that if a preponderance of evidence suggests Lee Harvey Oswald killed JFK, he probably did. If you have to start inventing a CIA cover-up plot and 23 people working in perfect unison to have someone other than Oswald kill JFK, that is probably not who did it. Yes there are rumors about Polian, but there have been a lot also saying "this is not true." We'll find out soon enough.
Best Player Available Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 He said that he won't be taking the Buffalo job on Monday. He was very careful with his words. A lot of reliable people have heard that he is on the way. What Bill Polian's role will be is TBD. Are you saying you heard he's going to be a Mod on TSW?
K D Posted December 29, 2014 Posted December 29, 2014 Polian got us to 3 Super Bowls, went to Carolina and got them to the Super Bowl a year later, went to Indy and drafted Peyton Manning and won the Super Bowl. Yea, the guy is crap we don't want him!
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