Marrone or Whaley, Who Stays?

[Agent 91]

I would like to see them all go. Clean house and start over. There could not be any less optimisim going into next season than there is now, if this group stays.

 

I would love to see Whaley back. He gives me hope. He has made some good moves. And I really think he has more in his bag

 

 

 

That's a little harsh..let him go to some second rate college program and I hope he gets a fashion consultant...He can take EJ CJ and an other "J's" with him. Lets keep the D guys and the special teams guy

 

Could we defer the Js for a year under a real professional OC if they still are not quality we pass em on.

 

 

If the Bills finish 9-7 - which is very possible given the circumstances of Sunday's game - I don't see any chance of Marrone getting fired. He will have coached the team to a winning season for the the first time in a DECADE. More importantly, regardless of whether we like him, he is in fact widely respected across the league and with a lot of backers. I just don't see him getting canned if it comes down to a decision between him and Whaley. The latter is on the hook for Manuel, and my sense is that across the league he's viewed as a bust. I'm not saying that's right, but perception matters.

 

I cant wrap my mind around any scenario that has belichik concede to a division rival. He is too greedy. Its like the eternal debate. When you knock someone down. You demoralize them. You stomp em. You do not let em get up. No hope. Not until the refs blow the final whistle. BBC is a no mercy guy.

 

Even if Pegula has doubts about both Whaley and Marrone, I think Whaley is more likely to go this year. If Pegula is unsure about Whaley, how can you have him hire a new head coach? If Pegula wants to fire Whaley after one more year, how many GMs will want a job where they are either stuck with a head coach who was just hired or they need to fire a coach who was just hired. That scenario seems way too disruptive to the team. Also, with Whaley, you can objectively point to moves that were questionable (trading up for Watkins, drafting CK, and drafting EJ). It would be harder with Marrone, where the Bills have shown improvement in their overall record after two seasons.

 

The EJ pick was great. Not only did they take a shot with a QB THEY liked... and satisfy a position that needed to be addressed. We got 2 second rounders who are very valuable to the team. Maybe we could have waited on EJ. But... could we have still gotten The two studs we did? Maybe but that was a great draft. CKuandijo was a whiff but.... he didnt cower. Everyone makes mistakes

 

 

See my post above. As for the defense, people who don't think he had anything to do with it are probably the same sort of people who don't give Parcells credit. In other words, they're wrong. One of the most important jobs of a head coach is hiring staff. If you can't lure good staff, you're failing at your job. He hired Pettine and Schwartz. He did not hire the equivalent of George Edwards.

 

With his defense I dont see how it was so hard to hire a dc. This team has been a defensive mans dream quietly for a long time. The schemes sucked... BUT we had pieces that a good defenseman licked his chops. A big example of why they threw so much at mario. Theu knew that if you build it... they will come

 

 

 

Not trying to dog Whaley, but if we are going to be technical, Buddy Nix was acting GM when we drafted Dareus, Traded for Hughes, signed Mario, drafted Bradham and Kiko, and drafted Gilmore Searcy A williams Robey and D williams.

 

K Willaims and McKelvin were hold overs from before Nix.

 

That leaves drafting Preston Brown and signing Brandon Spikes as starters since Whaley took over. I still believe Whaley had a lot to do with those Nix drafts, which is why I think he should stay, but that means he also had a hand in drafting Manual (huge Bust) Drafting Spiller and trading Lynch (Big Mistake) Drafting Tourelle Troup over Gronk (huge Mistake) losing a 1st round pick to move up for Watkins and then whiffing on Kunjo with a high second rounder stinks.

 

Without a doubt I think he should stick around, because we are 1-2 players away from really competing, but lets not act like Whaley built this team.

 

He was here when we traded lynch? I didnt think he was. Good to know

 

I see what you are saying but I think the Marrone "cherry picking" stems from Marrones expertise is the root of the offensive demise. I am starting to have an internal conflict. I almost want to see Hacketts best plays. Uninhibited by Marrone. I really REALLY feel like Marrone might be handicapping the offense. He might really be afraid of taking chances. Might really be trying to dial it down... I almost feel about him how most feel about EJ lets see what he has. I would love to see Hackett paired up with that Penn St coach. Motivational innovative and a teacher. Hackett might actually not be the worse OC in the league

 

 

 

I'm confused. So he has nothing to do with the Defense's success but he should be fired because he has everything to do with the Offense's ineptitude? Sounds like cherry-picking what you want to hold him accountable for and what you don't. So he has zero input on the defense? Doesn't get involved with it whatsoever? Drew names from a hat to hire a DC?

 

So much illogical, emotional reactions and ideas on the future of Brandon, Whaley, and Marrone. Everyone wants to highlight failures to justify removal while conventionality ignoring any success. There are some premises or ground rules that should be used in such conversations.

 

1. No one is perfect. Everyone here seems to be a CEO with an excellent track record, apparently with massive experience in professional sports.

2. Continuity matters. Ever work a job where there was turnover a few times in a few years in a key position. It sucks. Ideas and culture change and many times a good approach gets thrown out the window after a year when someone moves on or is fired. Does this team need to clean house every two years? It speaks to a continual blame on coaching. I think at this point, Whaley is a good GM and they should ride out another year with both. Honestly, ask yourself who would come here and are they an upgrade? Be serious about it. We wouldn't get a premier college coach or a premier retread NFL coach. So as much as people say "Get Malzhan or Briles or Sumlin" it ain't happening. OR Harbaugh. Nope. Without a QB and with 15 years of disaster, this isn't a great gig. You'll get another Marrone. So ride this one out for another year, see if you can find a serviceable QB and have at it.

3. You can't make a QB. It's the hardest position in professional sports. There is a limited supply of franchise ones. Blaming Whaley or Marrone for that fact is a shortsighted. The main problem is.... you have to try, meaning you have to roll the dice and gamble on a QB. This team has rolled and failed, rolled and failed in this 15 years of futility I would argue in many cases because they had to pick someone. And the years they did, the entire crop was garbage. Everyone would have went ape if they didn't draft a QB in 2013, a year full of garbage. Geno Smith sucks, Glennon sucks, Nassib and Barkley suck. If they would have gone and drafted one of these, same results. So instead of drafting garbage late, you roll the dice and try to get the best of the bunch, and honestly, if you've seen these other guys, they all really do suck. You become a victim of your own circumstances. In JP Losman's draft we didn't get a shot at Manning, Rivers or Roethsliberger. Again, victim of our own circumstances. You could argue they should have moved up, maybe they tried and couldn't, which seems likely. They moved up for Losman. Look at the rest of the QBs drafted and you'll see the argument that you can find one later is a laugher. In fact look at the QBs drafted every year. Pretty scary how much junk is out there. You might get lucky with a serviceable one but you don't get franchise ones in nearly all cases.

4. None of this fire and clean house worked under RCW. It was the culture here and it was a disaster. I'm hoping that everyone is back. I've even changed my mind on Hackett after reading some good analysis and all-22 stuff this week on the pathetic line. Honestly, you watch some of that and you realize why Orton went to his first read a lot; why they ran out of the gun way too much and couldn't play action; why so many screens, etc... The line was limiting factor on this offense.

Edited December 27, 2014 by Agent 91

[seq004]

I vote for the Doug Whaley Bills.

[The Dean]

This here -- it's a bit odd. http://bills.buffalo...le-faith-in-ej/

 

I hadn't seen that report, and I agree it is odd. Marrone's conversational style is odd, though. Seems to me he is just be saying, as long as he is making the decisions, Orton is starting. But that decision could be made by someone else--new HC if he is fired, or Whaley (or Pegula, I suppose) should he decide to exercise that power. For what it's worth, I think the HC should make all those decisions. When you lose faith in the HC's ability to decide who starts, it's time to let him go.

 

Downfall is the O-line for Whaley, Williams was a joke pickup, both rookie guards failed. Marrone using Pears as guard was a huge flop, destroyed run game.

 

I disagree the Williams pickup was "a joke". It made some sense, at the time. It ultimately didn't work out. But the guy was a 1st round draft pick and did play all 16 games in 2013. He SHOULD have been an improvement on what the Bills had.

 

What does Brandon bring to the tables, re: football? He's full of BS in my opinion, and his "culture change" crap was just that. Seriously,

 

Trying to save HIS job?

 

Team doesn't show up for most important game in years?

 

You are talking about Brandon, right? What does he have to do with the team showing up on game day? He isn't a coach or even a GM.

 

Marrone is about as average of a NFL coach as there is. He could be replaced by Gus Brqdley and there's no difference.

 

Whaley is growing into his position and had a great eye for talent. He's not perfect but he's a lot more valuable than Marrone.

 

Fire Marrone and get a real offensive coach who can develop Qbs.

 

Pretty harsh assessment, I think. I'm not sold on him by any means, but as a 2nd year HC, I think he has shown some potential. Like all new guys, you have to learn on the job. The team was better in year two than it was last year. If he gets another shot, I'd expect the team to win more games next year (all things being equal). If he fails, then his learning curve isn't steep enough. I'm not sure playing HC roulette is the best way to move forward at this point--that is if you see any improvement in the HC's performance year-to-year.

[klos63]

I don't know what you see in Marrone. On top of everything else, he's stubborn beyond reason. Losing him is equivalent to losing nothing.

I hear this criticism a lot and I don't get it. I know many have said that he would'yn play M Williams because he was stubborn, same for Urbik(who is terrible), i think people take such a simplistic approach to things and have no real idea what's behind his logic. If he was so stubborn, why not stick with EJ, I think Marrone is a good coach and with a good line and QB . we'd be in the playoffs. But my guess is that Whaley stays and coaching staff goes.

[RyanC883]

Whaley. Marrone is VERY VERY VERY replaceable. If anything, Hackett is gone (likely back to college OC job).

[Fan in San Diego]

If the Bills finish 9-7 - which is very possible given the circumstances of Sunday's game - I don't see any chance of Marrone getting fired. He will have coached the team to a winning season for the the first time in a DECADE. More importantly, regardless of whether we like him, he is in fact widely respected across the league and with a lot of backers. I just don't see him getting canned if it comes down to a decision between him and Whaley. The latter is on the hook for Manuel, and my sense is that across the league he's viewed as a bust. I'm not saying that's right, but perception matters.

 

I agree with a lot of this. If this happens they both stay for one more year. I would love to see a more seasoned OC though.

[Kemp2Warlick]

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 12m12 minutes ago

Possible Bills shakeup could include a return by Hall of Fame finalist Bill Polian http://wp.me/p14QSB-9FtR

[Fan in San Diego]

 

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 12m12 minutes ago

Possible Bills shakeup could include a return by Hall of Fame finalist Bill Polian http://wp.me/p14QSB-9FtR

 

Even if they keep Whaley (who I like actually) Polian would be an excellent advisor to Whaley. Success in this league largely hinges on good drafting.

[Kelly the Dog]

It should be noted and remembered that Polian said stuff about "Coach of the Year" right after the Packer game, because the better team lost. After that game the Bills were riding high. One week later, that entire idea disappeared when the better team lost against Oakland. There is zero chance that Polian thinks Marrone should get any coach of the year votes.

 

He may like him a lot though.

 

But even as an insider, he may not be privy to a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes. If he gets there, as a consultant, he may find that Marrone is highly respected in the building and did a great job. He may find differently.

[hondo in seattle]

That's a ridiculous question. Whaley gave us a top 3 defense in the NFL. What has Marrone given us again?

 

A top 3 defense in the NFL.

[C.Biscuit97]

A top 3 defense in the NFL.

 

Guys like Schwartz and Pettine don't come here to help Marrone meddle in the defense. He has little to do with the defense.

[The Big Cat]

 

 

Guys like Schwartz and Pettine don't come here to help Marrone meddle in the defense. He has little to do with the defense.

 

Gailey hired bozos for his D's guess he had nothing to do with it...

[Beef Jerky]

I would rather have not on single person from this franchise outside of Pegula remain.

[The Big Cat]

I would rather have not on single person from this franchise outside of Pegula remain.

 

Then brace yourself for letdown.

[Not at the table Karlos]

Neither. I'm firing Hackett. If i had to choose i would get rid of marrone as this is his offense as well as canthackett. How anyone can support Hackett boggles my mind.

Edited December 27, 2014 by kr632