Marrone or Whaley, Who Stays?

[4merper4mer]

 

So Whaley gets credit for the defense but skates on the offense?

 

Hard to say. He gave the team's loads of talent on both sides of the ball, but on offense there are two big differences.

 

One is at QB. I think the plan was EJ developing under Kolb and that got squashed early. It is hard to make a case that it would have worked quickly. Long term? After that I think it is fair to point out there were limited options for Whaley.

 

The second is that on D there has been player development and unit progression . On O there has been player and unit regression and this is undeniable except by Mrs. Marrone. We have even dumped talented players in favor of kickoff specialists and guys who run 4 yard routes on 3rd and 11. Judging Whaley, there is still a lot of talent on O, collectively more than we have had in years, but is is being poorly run. I think some of this has to be on Whaley for whatever part he held in hiring the current inept HC and as a result offensive staff.

[Green Lightning]

I am deeply dissappointed with Marrone. His area is offense and he has crafted one of the worst offenses in the league - one that cannot run the ball, pass it in the mid-to-long range or score 6 in the red zone. Bad QB's? Yes. But his OC is clueless about using his playmakers or scheming to his player's abilities and strengths. That's on him. Gailey worked around a shaky O-Line and with a limited QB. That's what coaches are supposed to do and not put one mediocre and two bad TE's on the field and suck week after week.

Edited December 26, 2014 by Green Lightning

[The Big Cat]

 

 

My opinions on players or coaches aren't decided by the media.

 

What am I selectively forgetful about exactly? Because I take statements made to the media with a grain of salt it means I just ignore things I don't want to hear?

 

McBride has responded to your skepticism many times now.

 

There was an outpouring of respect from league personnel when he was hired and that continues.

 

Pettine said this year that he owes his gig in Cleveland to Marrone. Not Rex. Marrone.

 

Wouldn't expect you to hear/believe any of this though since they didn't arrive personally in your living room to let you know. Rather, the always-fluffy-gushing-and-supportive of Marrone media conveys most of this information to brainless lemmings like myself:

[The Dean]

I believe they both likely stay. I can't imagine Whaley getting the boot (even if Polian is brought in at some position) and I think Whaley probably did enough to keep his job. I get the feeling real football people admire what he has done in Buffalo. His job might hinge on him replacing the OC and some guys don't go for that.

 

But it's a new dawn, it's a new day, so I suppose anything could happen.

 

I think the deciding factor will be whether or not Brandon gets fired. If Brandon stays then Marrone is safe.

 

Other than having a voice at the table, I don't believe Brandon will have the power to hire, or fire, anyone on the football side of the organization.

[dave mcbride]

I believe they both likely stay. I can't imagine Whaley getting the boot (even if Polian is brought in at some position) and I think Whaley probably did enough to keep his job. I get the feeling real football people admire what he has done in Buffalo. His job might hinge on him replacing the OC and some guys don't go for that.

 

But it's a new dawn, it's a new day, so I suppose anything could happen.

 

 

 

Other than having a voice at the table, I don't believe Brandon will have the power to hire, or fire, anyone on the football side of the organization.

 

This all makes sense. But if they truly can't work together, it's a problem.

[YoloinOhio]

I would keep both

[The Dean]

This all makes sense. But if they truly can't work together, it's a problem.

 

Of course.

 

But I happen to think the supposed blow up was an over-reaction by reporters who heard part of a conversation. I believe Wawrow reported something to that effect a day or two after "the incident". I'm not saying NOTHING happened, but words are exchanged all the time in organizations---even by people who get alone great. As far as I have heard. nothing since preseason suggests they have a real problem working together. And I believe little of what Bucky writes.

[Maddog69]

 

 

This all makes sense. But if they truly can't work together, it's a problem.

If this is the case, could we see them give Whalley another year and have him promote Schwartz as a 1 year interim HC?

 

[dave mcbride]

 

 

Of course.

 

But I happen to think the supposed blow up was an over-reaction by reporters who heard part of a conversation. I believe Wawrow reported something to that effect a day or two after "the incident". I'm not saying NOTHING happened, but words are exchanged all the time in organizations---even by people who get alone great. As far as I have heard. nothing since preseason suggests they have a real problem working together. And I believe little of what Bucky writes.

Not a fan of Bucky either, but there's a lot of smoke behind this one. Marrone's recent comments about starting Orton were curious to say the least.

[Wayne Cubed]

 

Not a fan of Bucky either, but there's a lot of smoke behind this one. Marrone's recent comments about starting Orton were curious to say the least.

 

I don't think the decision to start Orton this week is that odd. Throwing EJ to the wolves isn't exactly a smart move and there isn't much to be gained, IMO. Maybe the whole "gives us the best chance to win" is wrong but I understand why he's not playing EJ.

[The Dean]

Not a fan of Bucky either, but there's a lot of smoke behind this one. Marrone's recent comments about starting Orton were curious to say the least.

 

Not sure I know what remarks you refer to. I know he said this game is important to him and that Orton gives the team the best chance to win. That is getting strangely interpreted by reporters, IMO. Sound pretty much like HC-speak in general and specifically like Marrone-speak. Was their something else?

 

I don't think the decision to start Orton this week is that odd. Throwing EJ to the wolves isn't exactly a smart move and there isn't much to be gained, IMO. Maybe the whole "gives us the best chance to win" is wrong but I understand why he's not playing EJ.

 

I have to concur. I might have begun starting EJ a few weeks ago. But to throw him to the wolves, in Foxboro, for the last game of the year, with only a week of prep, seems almost cruel at this point. What would it prove, at this point? If he plays good, people will say it's a game the Pats* had no incentive to win. If he plays poorly (as Bills QBs have done most if the time against NE) will have proven he isn't a starting QB, to those who already believe it. I say let him earn the starting job next year (and I really hope he does).

Edited December 26, 2014 by The Dean

[dave mcbride]

 

 

Not sure I know what remarks you refer to. I know he said this game is important to him and that Orton gives the team the best chance to win. That is getting strangely interpreted by reporters, IMO. Sound pretty much like HC-speak in general and specifically like Marrone-speak. Was their something else?

 

 

 

I have to concur. I might have begun starting EJ a few weeks ago. But to throw him to the wolves, in Foxboro, for the last game of the year, with only a week of prep, seems almost cruel at this point. What would it prove, at this point? If he plays good, people will say it's a game the Pats* had no incentive to win. If he plays poorly (as Bills QBs have done most if the time against NE) will have proven he isn't a starting QB. I say let him earn the starting job next year (and I really hope he does).

This here -- it's a bit odd. http://bills.buffalonews.com/2014/12/10/staying-with-orton-means-marrone-has-little-faith-in-ej/

 

 

[Bangarang]

McBride has responded to your skepticism many times now.

 

There was an outpouring of respect from league personnel when he was hired and that continues.

 

Pettine said this year that he owes his gig in Cleveland to Marrone. Not Rex. Marrone.

 

Wouldn't expect you to hear/believe any of this though since they didn't arrive personally in your living room to let you know. Rather, the always-fluffy-gushing-and-supportive of Marrone media conveys most of this information to brainless lemmings like myself:

 

Is skepticism not allowed here? I asked how he came to his conclusion. I may not buy into that notion but it doesn't mean he's wrong.

 

Why does it matter that Pettine had Marrone to thank for his new HC job instead of Rex? If we're going to be taking media reports as gospel then you would know that Rex and Pettine parted was on very shaky grounds.

[USABuffaloFan]

Hard to say. He gave the team's loads of talent on both sides of the ball, but on offense there are two big differences.

 

One is at QB. I think the plan was EJ developing under Kolb and that got squashed early. It is hard to make a case that it would have worked quickly. Long term? After that I think it is fair to point out there were limited options for Whaley.

 

The second is that on D there has been player development and unit progression . On O there has been player and unit regression and this is undeniable except by Mrs. Marrone. We have even dumped talented players in favor of kickoff specialists and guys who run 4 yard routes on 3rd and 11. Judging Whaley, there is still a lot of talent on O, collectively more than we have had in years, but is is being poorly run. I think some of this has to be on Whaley for whatever part he held in hiring the current inept HC and as a result offensive staff.

 

Downfall is the O-line for Whaley, Williams was a joke pickup, both rookie guards failed. Marrone using Pears as guard was a huge flop, destroyed run game.

[Manther]

Whaley! Not even close!

[The Big Cat]

Is skepticism not allowed here? I asked how he came to his conclusion. I may not buy into that notion but it doesn't mean he's wrong.

 

Why does it matter that Pettine had Marrone to thank for his new HC job instead of Rex? If we're going to be taking media reports as gospel then you would know that Rex and Pettine parted was on very shaky grounds.

 

And if we were to assume all things coaches say is polit-speak BS, then he would have used it as an opportunity to throw A bone to the coach (Rex) who was responsible for his professional development.

 

And of course skepticism is allowed. But when you're just re-asking the same question over and over, hoping to get the answer you want, ignoring the ones you don't, then it's not skepticism, it's just sour grapes.

[Bangarang]

And if we were to assume all things coaches say is polit-speak BS, then he would have used it as an opportunity to throw A bone to the coach (Rex) who was responsible for his professional development.

 

And of course skepticism is allowed. But when you're just re-asking the same question over and over, hoping to get the answer you want, ignoring the ones you don't, then it's not skepticism, it's just sour grapes.

 

If you want to speculate about what Pettine could have said then go right ahead.

 

Where am I asking the same question over and over hoping to get the answer I want to hear? I asked it once, I was given an answer and didn't really buy into it. That's pretty much it. There's no sour grapes about it. NFL coaches generally show respect to other coaches in the media. Those words may have truth to them. They may not. If Marrone is in fact well respected around the league then that doesn't make me upset, nor does it really change my opinion about his ability to coach this team. It certainly wouldn't be a factor to me in whether or not he should stay as the HC. It may for others.

[die hard bills fan]

Whaley no question. Buckey thinking otherwise is ludicrous http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bucky-gleason-pegulas-have-decisions-to-make-soon-20141225ley

[mannc]

I used to think Whaley was a shoe-in to stick around, and that Marrone was toast. I'm starting to reconsider, even though I'm no Marrone supporter. It seems pretty clear to me that one of them is gone since there appears to be real friction between them, based on some of Marrone's comments and various media accounts, including Gleason's today. The Bills have more talent now than they had in the past, and Whaley certainly deserves some credit for that, but it's hard to know how much credit because we don't know exactly what his role was prior to this year's draft. He can't take credit for Mario, Kyle Williams or Dareus. He certainly gets credit for Hughes and Brown, as well as some of the guys he picked up off the scrap heap, like Graham, Robey and Gray. I recognize that even the very best GMs have their hits and misses, so I believe the best way to evaluate them is by looking at their major decisions and by looking at the big picture. In this regard, I think Whaley has been a failure. First and foremost, he has left the Bills in a horrible QB situation. Solving the QB situation has to be Job One of every GM. Two years in a row, the team began the season with one of the three worst QB situations in the league, and it's looking like 2015 will be more of the same. We have seen nothing from Whaley to demonstrate that he is the guy we want evaluating and selecting the Bills QB of the future. Then there is the O-line, a perennial Bills Achilles heel. The o-line has regressed, despite spending three draft picks and one fairly expensive free agent signing on it, and might actually be the worst in the NFL. Again, what gives you confidence that Whaley can draft offensive linemen who can come in and make difference here? Last is the Watkins trade. I won't belabor the point but, other than on this board, the trade is getting poor reviews so far and the reasons why are pretty obvious. Watkins is far from a bust, but he did not get the Bills over the hump and they could have found someone at least as impactful without giving up a first and a fourth this year. What concerns me most about Watkins as a number one receiver is how few targets he seems to get. Maybe that's just negligence on the part of Orton and Hackett, but there is something there. I believe the Watkins trade shows why most successful franchises NEVER trade up in the first round and why I believe it should be a firing offense. In these three key areas, I believe Whaley has come up short. Again, as a fan, it's difficult to evaluate GM's since we really don't know what goes on behind the scenes, but I believe a strong case can be made that Whaley needs to go.

Edited December 26, 2014 by mannc

[NewEra]

If I had to choose between them, Whaley 100%. If we fire Whaley, the new GM will likely gut Marrone too and bring in the head coach he likes most. I like the talent on this team, other than OL and QB. Give Whaley this off season to fix the OL and resign our core. I'd actually prefer to keep both of them, while cutting loose Hackett and Morris. I haven't been a big fan of Marrone and some of his decision making, but I'd be willing to keep him another year IF he can muster up the guts to fire Hackett and Morris.