rfk Posted December 27, 2014 Author Posted December 27, 2014 No one knows if Sammy will be a star or out of football in 2 years....too many variables...What we do know is the Bills are an offensive team in chaos...they missed the playoffs and seem to have many holes to plug...including the most difficult one at QB...Would a first round pick this spring make a difference? I do know that Whaley took his shot and they have a really messed up offense. Does he get the chance to right this mess and "build" an offense or will he continue to make mistakes in the draft?
Gugny Posted December 27, 2014 Posted December 27, 2014 No one knows if Sammy will be a star or out of football in 2 years....too many variables...What we do know is the Bills are an offensive team in chaos...they missed the playoffs and seem to have many holes to plug...including the most difficult one at QB...Would a first round pick this spring make a difference? I do know that Whaley took his shot and they have a really messed up offense. Does he get the chance to right this mess and "build" an offense or will he continue to make mistakes in the draft? Other than injury, why would one possibly believe that Sammy be out of football in 2 years?
rfk Posted December 27, 2014 Author Posted December 27, 2014 Other than injury, why would one possibly believe that Sammy be out of football in 2 years? Of course "injury" in any of it's many forms...You have to consider that The NFL is the last big ride for these guys....an NFL player career averages 3.3 years. So is it prudent to give up this coming years #1 for an undoubtably good receiver who just might be another Rice, Fitzgerald or what have you but more likely will be selling cars in a few years...
Agent 91 Posted December 27, 2014 Posted December 27, 2014 (edited) Even if the Bills lost value, Watkins put up near 1000yds in a dysfunctional offense as a #1 WR as a rookie. Any other year we would be singing his praises because rookie WRs are not supposed to do that, this year was the exception. Mike Evans is the only one I'm as impressed by, wasn't sold on him pre-draft though. Sammy has the highest ceiling of any WR drafted this year, book it. And the 16th pick (think its 16th atm) was not gonna get us a QB anyways, it all comes down to whether EJ develops or not for Whaley, it's a topic that's been beaten to death but there is still a chance it happens. Kujo wasn't a panic, thought Whaley said in a conference or something that they expected him to be gone, had the highest grade left and also filled a need. However missing so far on that pick might have cost us the playoffs this year. A decent lineman or a tight end could have made just enough difference, G.Jackson or Sef-Jenkins would have made the draft a A+. P.Brown set the LB's over the edge. Richardson is good developmental depth Henderson was great in the 7th, has a pro bowl ceiling imo. If he did panic, he still had a top end draft. Better then 2/3 in the league. Whaley has earned his time, hope the Pegs see it the same way. ASJ was gone so I couldn't get as mad about that Edited December 27, 2014 by Agent 91
Gugny Posted December 27, 2014 Posted December 27, 2014 Of course "injury" in any of it's many forms...You have to consider that The NFL is the last big ride for these guys....an NFL player career averages 3.3 years. So is it prudent to give up this coming years #1 for an undoubtably good receiver who just might be another Rice, Fitzgerald or what have you but more likely will be selling cars in a few years... Why is Watkins more likely to be selling cars in a few years? I'm not sure if you may have missed the first 16 Bills games this year, but by all accounts, he's - at the very least - the 2nd best rookie wide receiver in the NFL. And he hasn't had the luxury of a decent QB/offense. As I write this, I realize I'm being trolled and I hate myself a little for falling into another trap of stupidity. But since you created an entirely new word (undoubtably), I'm going to play along one last time.
Augie Posted December 27, 2014 Posted December 27, 2014 Why is Watkins more likely to be selling cars in a few years? I'm not sure if you may have missed the first 16 Bills games this year, but by all accounts, he's - at the very least - the 2nd best rookie wide receiver in the NFL. And he hasn't had the luxury of a decent QB/offense. As I write this, I realize I'm being trolled and I hate myself a little for falling into another trap of stupidity. But since you created an entirely new word (undoubtably), I'm going to play along one last time. Don't worry, it happens. There are some guys taken in the first round who will be out of the league in 3 years. Sammy isn't one of them (barring catastrophic injury of course) and that's why they paid the premium - he was a pretty sure thing to be at least very good.
starrymessenger Posted December 27, 2014 Posted December 27, 2014 Idk that panic is the right word. Maybe pressure with an impending ownership change is better. Regardless, to me it actually began in the 2013 draft when a team that had foolishly neglected the QB position for decades was forced to pick one high in a bad class. Sometimes bad management combines with bad luck to create the perfect train wreck.
SBUffalo Posted December 27, 2014 Posted December 27, 2014 Why is Watkins more likely to be selling cars in a few years? I'm not sure if you may have missed the first 16 Bills games this year, but by all accounts, he's - at the very least - the 2nd best rookie wide receiver in the NFL. And he hasn't had the luxury of a decent QB/offense. As I write this, I realize I'm being trolled and I hate myself a little for falling into another trap of stupidity. But since you created an entirely new word (undoubtably), I'm going to play along one last time. Actually, by most accounts he's the 3rd or 4th best rookie receiver this year. Not that it takes away from your point.
bigK14094 Posted December 27, 2014 Posted December 27, 2014 I don't think it was panic. He gambled. He didn't necessarily lose. Sammy is very good. Sammy has been playing injured with several tweaks and bruises. My concern is that he may be more fragile than anyone thought he would be, but we won't know if that is true until he has been in the league for a few years. The train wreck at QB is hard to figure out. Last year, Thad played pretty well, and the plan at draft time was probably that between Thad and EJ the QB position would be good enough. Who knew that Thad would wash out in pre-season, and that EJ would not show progress with more playing time. The plan to get Orton off his couch was probably not in the conversation at draft time. Actually, I just listened to the Marrone interview with Sal C on WGR, and Marrone alluded to EJ regressing on what he had been taught at QB.....maybe something that our fan based eyes don't see.....anyhow, that was part of the reason he was benched was the implication. Uncoachable is a bad sign....I have not heard any Bills rep use that word...but, that was what Marrone said in an indirect way. So, the comment here are about not showing progress is somewhat an understatement on what was going on.
purple haze Posted December 27, 2014 Posted December 27, 2014 That WR class was very deep. Any one of the top 3, and probably even more than that, would have made the Bills better. But no WR can do a lot without a QB that can get him the ball. The point being Whaley could have gotten a very good WR that would have helped the team without giving up an additional first round pick. In my opinion he grossly overpaid and that trade was a big mistake by Whaley. He could have gotten a very good WR, but none who were evaluated to be the package that Watkins presented. Beckham, at the time of the draft, I said was a Watkins type, and would have been a good pick. However, Watkins, I still believe, will go down as the more difference-making WR. People are salty now, but three years from now I think a majority of this board will be glad Watkins is a Bill and won’t be thinking about any pick they gave up to get him.
rfk Posted December 27, 2014 Author Posted December 27, 2014 http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/undoubtably Undoubtably yours
3rdand12 Posted December 27, 2014 Posted December 27, 2014 >>>>>I have no complaints on Watkins. No offensive line. No running game. No QB. Worst offensive coordinator in football (or bottom 3) and still had a stellar season. If you don't like what you saw from Watkins, you need a new TV.<<<<< I hated the trade. Despised it, but there Is zero doubt that the kid is great and will get better if he stays healthy. But what do we do at qb? Cutler? Mallett? Got any ideas? Glennon ? Well, apparently Doug Whaley thought he already had his franchise QB on the roster or he wouldn't have used three draft picks, two #1's and a #4 to draft Sammy Watkins. The Bills didn't give up two #1's, but they did use two #1's picks. The 2014 first round pick at # 4 from Cleveland, the 2015 #1 pick to Cleveland, and the 2015 #4 pick to Cleveland. The real question is did the Bills give up too much for a player that they could have stayed at the ninth pick of the 2014 draft, and gotten Odell Beckham Jr, or OG Zack Martin who made the pro bowl. Just think, if the Bills hadn't drafted Sammy their choice would have been Eric Ebron at #1, and Cyrus Kouandjio at #2. OG's like Colin Brown, retaining Erik Pears, Kraig Urbik, and bringing in players like Doug Legursky, Chris Williams. You have to think there is something seriously wrong with the offensive side of the scouting dept. This is something i had not considered. Valid point !
3rdand12 Posted December 27, 2014 Posted December 27, 2014 http://en.wiktionary...iki/undoubtably Undoubtably yours LOL well done guys ! Watkins was a reach. justify it as you will. Has nothing to do with his potential. There was no one in the draft to trade up for. Should have been , I wish , a trade down year again. And heck , i like Watkins quite a bit.
Augie Posted December 27, 2014 Posted December 27, 2014 I am generally a trade down guy, this would be one rare non-QB exception in my mind. Was it too much? Time will tell, but it certainly was a lot.
CodeMonkey Posted December 28, 2014 Posted December 28, 2014 He could have gotten a very good WR, but none who were evaluated to be the package that Watkins presented. Beckham, at the time of the draft, I said was a Watkins type, and would have been a good pick. However, Watkins, I still believe, will go down as the more difference-making WR. People are salty now, but three years from now I think a majority of this board will be glad Watkins is a Bill and won’t be thinking about any pick they gave up to get him. I think Bills fans are happy Watkins is a Bill now. What people debate is the price paid. I agree with the bolded if the Bills have improved to relevancy or more in those 3 years. If they do not, Bills fans will put that trade under a even bigger microscope. And rightly so.
timtebow15 Posted December 28, 2014 Posted December 28, 2014 While panic is not the right wood Whaley did go all-in on the trade to keep his job with the new owner and lost. He's got to go. Don't just think about the trade but opportunity lost. Knowing WR was deep we could have traded way down and still drafted a capable player and had a lot more to work with. Whaley acted like we were one player away which we all knew we weren't. Then he "fixes" the OLine with Chris Williams and Kujo? And think of all the weird QB decisions. Can anyone say the front office has a coherent plan? This trade is evidence that they took a huge gamble - not to build a championship team but just to make the playoffs in an attempt to solidify their jobs for new ownership. Whaley is average at best and we aren't going to take a step forward with this kind of decision-making. We need someone who can outsmart other GMs - not play fodder for them.
rfk Posted December 28, 2014 Author Posted December 28, 2014 I think Whaley needed some more seasoning with the Steelers before joining the Bills..I don't ever see the Steelers make a bone head trade..They miss like everyone but they don't miss and shoot themselves in the face like Cheney..Small market teams in boring NE Cities need to be meticulous in drafting players....
rfk Posted December 28, 2014 Author Posted December 28, 2014 (edited) Why is Watkins more likely to be selling cars in a few years? I'm not sure if you may have missed the first 16 Bills games this year, but by all accounts, he's - at the very least - the 2nd best rookie wide receiver in the NFL. And he hasn't had the luxury of a decent QB/offense. As I write this, I realize I'm being trolled and I hate myself a little for falling into another trap of stupidity. But since you created an entirely new word (undoubtably), I'm going to play along one last time. Undoubtably Edited December 28, 2014 by rfk
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