BrooklynBills Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 I agree, no one could foresee Thad Lewis regressing the way he did, I was sincerely expecting some growth in his game. Really? He was an 3rd year undrafted QB with 4 or 5 starts under his belt. He had his moments but if anyone thought he was an answer at QB Was delusional. And Watkins was as much a Brandon move as a Whaley move.
boyst Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 i heard (not sure if true) that the Bills really liked Bitonio and thought he would still be there when they picked in the 2nd, but he was gone. Imagine if he had been there! We had no chance at Martin unless we took him 9th. I think he is good but that's high. there is and was nothing i liked about kouadjmo. I was very displeased we chose him. Mostly because he was considered a project. I get that we could take a little bit of a chance at OG with Urbik and Chris Williams, but the guy was just not worth it.
CardinalScotts Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 who in their right mind judges a draft pick after one year? well other than WGR of course
White Linen Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 Do we have to decide within year one and when the dismal QB play still exists?
K-9 Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 who in their right mind judges a draft pick after one year? well other than WGR of course Nobody. But there is no shortage of people NOT in their right minds that do. GO BILLS!!!
jahnyc Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 If CK is a complete bust, then we need to consider whether this was a disappointing draft for the Bills. I do not think that Whaley et al. deserve credit for drafting Watkins in terms of talent evaluation skills because he was considered by many to be a top WR prospect and we traded a first round pick in 2015 to get him. CK and Richardson showed very little this season. Preston Brown was very solid and may be the best pick of the draft for the Bills based on his play this year and where he was drafted. I know that many think that Henderson was a great pick, but there was no doubt about his talent, it was about his head and his ability to stay focused and clean. Drafting him was not an example of excellent talent evaluation, it was a team taking a chance on a player that had off field issues.
SJDK Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 I think whaley and his team is great at evaluating defense and not so good at evaluating offense. Especially offensive linemen. We need Mostly linemen in this draft (OG) and maybe a QB if he could become something. Also, same positions in free agency. For what its worth I said watkins would be injured a lot and I wanted us to take either Benjamin or Evans as a receiver. We screwed up considering that we could have had Beckham, Benjamin or Evans. That's how i feel about Whaley until somebody proves it wrong.
KOKBILLS Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 Don Banks at si.com has an article regarding the 2015 coaching carousel and suggests that some think Whaley is vulnerable because of overdrafting Manuel and the cost of moving up for Watkins with Beckham available. Interesting that Whaley is being blamed for EJ, I still have no idea whether that is fair or not. I think it's partially fair...I think Whaley, Nix and Marrone were all in on EJ... But to me the blame concerning EJ lands more on Marrone/Hackett than anyone...Because regardless of what they want to say now about the plan with Kolb and all that, EJ easily looked like the best QB the Bills had from day #1 in Camp his rookie year...Marrone and Hackett were never able to design an offense that could take the pressure off EJ and allow him to develop at a decent pace...And I'm not saying that is an easy thing to do in the NFL where QB's are so important...But still...Marrone/Hackett could not get the job done regardless... I would love to see a REAL legit offensive mind come in here and have a crack at resurrecting EJ...Not necessarily because I believe it can be done, rather because I'm ultra curious exactly how bad Marrone and Hackett actually are...I know this much though...They knew the best way to help EJ was to build a dominant running game...And despite having a pretty decent stable of RB's they failed miserably in that area...A run first offense that can't run...Regardless of EJ's issues, which basically revolved around his inability to hit open receivers in stride, that did not help him (or this Bills team with an above average defense) whatsoever...
ganesh Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 I don't think it was panic. He gambled. He didn't necessarily lose. Sammy is very good. Sammy has been playing injured with several tweaks and bruises. My concern is that he may be more fragile than anyone thought he would be, but we won't know if that is true until he has been in the league for a few years. The train wreck at QB is hard to figure out. Last year, Thad played pretty well, and the plan at draft time was probably that between Thad and EJ the QB position would be good enough. Who knew that Thad would wash out in pre-season, and that EJ would not show progress with more playing time. The plan to get Orton off his couch was probably not in the conversation at draft time. What was surprising to me about the way the pick happened was very Un-Steeler like. The Steelers hardly trade draft picks and let the draft come to them. If it was the Steelers, they are sitting and picking a Evans or Beckham at their slot or even trade down. Whaley having been in that system; it was surprising to see him do that. The Bills gambled a lot this season and lost. THe QB position, the RBs and the Offensive play calling sucked. It is a shame that we did not have a single 100-yard rushing from any RB the whole season.
SBUffalo Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 who in their right mind judges a draft pick after one year? well other than WGR of course Nobody is judging the pick. They're judging the trade. You can love the player and still hate the trade.
Nitro Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 (edited) I thought it was and is a good trade. Washington mortgaged their future for RG III. Look at them now. The draft is never a guarantee for success. Watkins is a talented young man with a bright future ahead. Problem for the Bills and half the teams in the NFL is the lack of good QBs coming out every year. This is another year with a QB getting a lot of hype to be the first pick but is really a 3rd round talent. Edited December 26, 2014 by Nitro
FireChan Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 (edited) Nobody is judging the pick. They're judging the trade. You can love the player and still hate the trade. Not really. Sammy Watkins the player and the value of the trade are intricately linked and very variable. We'll see who is available at our pick, as well as Sammy's success and go from there. If there's a couple solid linebackers there, and Sammy Watkins turns out to be a top 5 WR, how could you hate the trade? Edited December 26, 2014 by FireChan
thewildrabbit Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 Well, apparently Doug Whaley thought he already had his franchise QB on the roster or he wouldn't have used three draft picks, two #1's and a #4 to draft Sammy Watkins. The Bills didn't give up two #1's, but they did use two #1's picks. The 2014 first round pick at # 4 from Cleveland, the 2015 #1 pick to Cleveland, and the 2015 #4 pick to Cleveland. The real question is did the Bills give up too much for a player that they could have stayed at the ninth pick of the 2014 draft, and gotten Odell Beckham Jr, or OG Zack Martin who made the pro bowl. Just think, if the Bills hadn't drafted Sammy their choice would have been Eric Ebron at #1, and Cyrus Kouandjio at #2. OG's like Colin Brown, retaining Erik Pears, Kraig Urbik, and bringing in players like Doug Legursky, Chris Williams. You have to think there is something seriously wrong with the offensive side of the scouting dept.
John Adams Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 When he took Sammy...looks that way now, he bit and lost...I wonder who Nix would have taken to complement his francheese QB? The best rookie WR in Bills history is "a loss" according to you? Potential offensive rookie of the year? Please draft more losses in the future. I have no complaints on Watkins. No offensive line. No running game. No QB. Worst offensive coordinator in football (or bottom 3) and still had a stellar season. If you don't like what you saw from Watkins, you need a new TV. Graybeard: "Who knew Thad would wash out in preseason?" Everyone. The guy was all guts and little else last year. He had no chance to ever make the Bills better except being a fiesty guy at 3rd QB. Really? He was an 3rd year undrafted QB with 4 or 5 starts under his belt. He had his moments but if anyone thought he was an answer at QB Was delusional. Lewis showed guts last year, nothing more. He was Fitz minus the arm and brains.
birdog1960 Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 Well, apparently Doug Whaley thought he already had his franchise QB on the roster or he wouldn't have used three draft picks, two #1's and a #4 to draft Sammy Watkins. The Bills didn't give up two #1's, but they did use two #1's picks. The 2014 first round pick at # 4 from Cleveland, the 2015 #1 pick to Cleveland, and the 2015 #4 pick to Cleveland. The real question is did the Bills give up too much for a player that they could have stayed at the ninth pick of the 2014 draft, and gotten Odell Beckham Jr, or OG Zack Martin who made the pro bowl. Just think, if the Bills hadn't drafted Sammy their choice would have been Eric Ebron at #1, and Cyrus Kouandjio at #2. OG's like Colin Brown, retaining Erik Pears, Kraig Urbik, and bringing in players like Doug Legursky, Chris Williams. You have to think there is something seriously wrong with the offensive side of the scouting dept. exactly. the ebron talk is negative not an excuse for whaley
Bill from NYC Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 >>>>>I have no complaints on Watkins. No offensive line. No running game. No QB. Worst offensive coordinator in football (or bottom 3) and still had a stellar season. If you don't like what you saw from Watkins, you need a new TV.<<<<< I hated the trade. Despised it, but there Is zero doubt that the kid is great and will get better if he stays healthy. But what do we do at qb? Cutler? Mallett? Got any ideas?
H2o Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 (edited) I liked Whaley before, I still like Whaley now. Honestly, we are just a couple of re-signings, a decent draft, and a decent FA period away from being AFC contenders for the next 3 years or so. Whaley is building this team after the mold of the Steelers teams he had a hand in. We get Kiko back next year with an already stout LB group. The defense overall has been very good. It all hinges on the OL and QB. We need G's for the OL and we need a QB that can get it done. Whaley will address the OL this offseason I have no doubt, but I wonder waht's going to happen at the QB position. I still think they give Manuel this offseason/upsoming TC to see if he can get it together, but I think the team's "back-up plan" will look a little bit different. Edited December 26, 2014 by H2o
John Adams Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 (edited) >>>>>I have no complaints on Watkins. No offensive line. No running game. No QB. Worst offensive coordinator in football (or bottom 3) and still had a stellar season. If you don't like what you saw from Watkins, you need a new TV.<<<<< I hated the trade. Despised it, but there Is zero doubt that the kid is great and will get better if he stays healthy. But what do we do at qb? Cutler? Mallett? Got any ideas? Right. I also did not like the trade. Still not thrilled about it. But I do think they got someone special in Watkins. At QB, I have no long term answer. I can hope EJ shows up next year looking like the real deal but I see a guy with great character who showed little reason to be excited. Orton is kind of hated around here but I think he did pretty well with almost no line help, run game, or coordinator. He's not the long term answer but I don't hate him. Unless there's a huge upgrade to get at QB, I'm fine with Orton (not a popular opinion) and hope they put the off-season energy into the OL. Behind a good OL, they have a running game. With a running game, Orton will look good...not great but good. If this team's offense is achieves good, they are in the playoffs. Edited December 26, 2014 by John Adams
TSOL Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 The trade was brillient. They shouldve given Cleveland our 1st in 2016 too. A generational talent, i say. Just give em a few more years, Sammy will come into his own, that franchise QB will come through in a few years and youll see. Genius, i tells ya!
Coach Tuesday Posted December 26, 2014 Posted December 26, 2014 (edited) Maybe the "consultant" the Bills need is a Wall Street guy, not a football guy. Here is the thing: regardless of whether Watkins is/will be a star, the undisputed fact is that the 2014 draft was one of the deepest WR draft classes of recent history. This was widely discussed and understood prior to the draft, and has been borne out this season, as numerous rookie WRs are productive, emerging players. Because of the relative surplus of quality WRs in the 2014 draft, the "value" of each WR on draft day - and hence the price - was slightly reduced. Under those circumstances, general market principles dictate that you DON'T overpay for a surplus item. If the Bills had an investment banker making draft day decisions last May, one who knew little about football but understood that there was a surplus of WRs and that the Bills needed one, he most certainly would NOT have paid such a steep price to draft Watkins, even if (i) Watkins was the consensus #1 (he wasn't), and (ii) Watkins is a sure-fire superstar (he probably is, barring injury). That is because the Bills have limited assets and a number of key deficiencies. A skilled trader would likely have done the EXACT OPPOSITE of what the Bills did - he would have waited until the second or third round to draft a quality wide receiver, preserving the top draft choice (and next year's top draft choice) to target positions and players that were UNDERVALUED, and/or were of more limited quantity in the 2014 draft. Perhaps he even would have taken advantage of a GM or owner who was fixated on a particular WR and traded down from #9, acquiring additional draft assets in the process. Dibs, it doesn't matter whether Watkins becomes a star player. Let's assume he does. Drafting Watkins was still a poor strategic decision for the 2014 Bills. The Bills could not afford to pay such a steep price for a marginally better wide receiver in a receiver-rich draft. If the Pegulas hire a consultant with any business acumen whatsoever, Whaley may very well be on the outs. I'm telling you. (Of course, if Plan B really was Ebron and Kujo, Whaley deserves to be sh-canned, regardless.) Edited December 26, 2014 by Coach Tuesday
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