The Big Cat Posted December 23, 2014 Author Posted December 23, 2014 This 3rd and 1, before the "no punt" looks just as bad for Orton, Hackett, Marrone, The Bills, My parents, and everyone involved: I see Woods get completely neutralized, Wood get pushed backward and Orton dodging ghosts. The play would have failed with just ONE of those setbacks. Jesus.
Kelly the Dog Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Looks like a horrendous decision. But he's already in his throwing motion. The defender at the 38 has already has already let the Bills player at the 40 or so who is wide open go. I would imagine he was right on him a half second ago. The player wide open, Lee Smith, on the other side of the field likely would have been an INT if Orton turned to him, or a 5 yard gain. There is a Raider looking at Orton right there. The bad decision, obviously, is starting the pass with the Raider right on the guy he was throwing too. But the Bills who look wide open on plays like that are usually not wide open a second before when the QB is still looking. He's already starting his motion. Defenders watch QBs and leave their man as soon as they know it isn't coming to them. Terrible decision by Orton though.
The Big Cat Posted December 23, 2014 Author Posted December 23, 2014 I'm start Is it possible that the Hackett / Orton incompetence is not mutual exclusive? I'm start Is it possible that the Hackett / Orton incompetence is not mutual exclusive? Of course it is. I just believe Orton's magnifies Hackett's tremendously. I'm no Orton fan, but I don't think photos like this prove much. At the moment when it is taken, Orton is fully locked on to the receiver and is in the process of delivering the ball. The other defenders no longer have any reason to stick to their receivers so it's not surprising that they are "college open". You would have to see it in real time to draw any conclusions. I'm not saying you're wrong, but you're wrong.
mannc Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 This 3rd and 1, before the "no punt" looks just as bad for Orton, Hackett, Marrone, The Bills, My parents, and everyone involved: Now this is truly an awful play call. Two plays to make one yard and we have Orton drop straight back 10 yards and try some sort of god-awful, slow-developing WR screen to a guy moving sideways. Horrible.
The Big Cat Posted December 23, 2014 Author Posted December 23, 2014 Looks like a horrendous decision. But he's already in his throwing motion. The defender at the 38 has already has already let the Bills player at the 40 or so who is wide open go. I would imagine he was right on him a half second ago. The player wide open, Lee Smith, on the other side of the field likely would have been an INT if Orton turned to him, or a 5 yard gain. There is a Raider looking at Orton right there. The bad decision, obviously, is starting the pass with the Raider right on the guy he was throwing too. But the Bills who look wide open on plays like that are usually not wide open a second before when the QB is still looking. He's already starting his motion. Defenders watch QBs and leave their man as soon as they know it isn't coming to them. Terrible decision by Orton though. They might be shading toward where Orton's going, but not enough time would have elapsed for them to have come SO far from their mark that what we're perceiving by this photo is invalidated.
fridge Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 I see Woods get completely neutralized, Wood get pushed backward and Orton dodging ghosts. The play would have failed with just ONE of those setbacks. Jesus. I actually look at that video, and the earlier photo and just scratch my head. Hackett, Orton, the line, everything. It's just not all there, and I don't know why but it just makes me think the whole offense needs a reset button. It can't get much worse in terms of execution. I don't even want to point fingers anymore, none of it looks good.
The Big Cat Posted December 23, 2014 Author Posted December 23, 2014 Now this is truly an awful play call. Two plays to make one yard and we have Orton drop straight back 10 yards and try some sort of god-awful, slow-developing WR screen to a guy moving sideways. Horrible. The Raiders rushed four and Orton is running backward the whole time because Wood can't keep his guy in check. Woods is completely taken out of the play. Funny how terrible execution makes a play call look "truly awful."
fridge Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Now this is truly an awful play call. Two plays to make one yard and we have Orton drop straight back 10 yards and try some sort of god-awful, slow-developing WR screen to a guy moving sideways. Horrible. Keep in mind that the "guy" is also Hogan, who is apparently better at targeted screen plays than Watkins this season.
DC Tom Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 The guy is capable but its a combination of him being limited skillset wise and bad Oline play that makes our offense so bad. If you gave orton a wall I bet he would be a lot better than he is right now. "Bad Oline" play is an understatement. Take a look at the blocking in that picture. Raiders rush five, Bills only have four linemen engaging. One guard (number looks like 64, but the Bills don't have a 64, so I don't know who that tub of lard is) is doing nothing, while Cody Glenn looks like he's trying to engage two pass rushers at once. And there's a complete jailbreak over right guard (who I assume pulled to help Glenn, based on how one of the Raiders players is bent sideways), with Wood being out of position to stop them (not surprising, since he's the center, not the guard). Only the RT is actually doing anything worthwhile. And that CAN'T be just bad players. That is the worst blocking scheme I've ever seen. I don't even know what the !@#$ that's supposed to be.
The Big Cat Posted December 23, 2014 Author Posted December 23, 2014 I actually look at that video, and the earlier photo and just scratch my head. Hackett, Orton, the line, everything. It's just not all there, and I don't know why but it just makes me think the whole offense needs a reset button. It can't get much worse in terms of execution. I don't even want to point fingers anymore, none of it looks good. Except the photo suggests that the only poor execution on the play was Orton's.
K-9 Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Show me the passing lanes to ANY of those open receivers. (Not that he had one to...whoever that is at the top of the pic, I can't tell.) I never thought Orton was any good, but it's the line that's the real problem. And if he'd passed it to the wide-open Lee, you'd just be bitching about him dumping it off. Valid point about the OL and passing lanes. That said, one of Orton's biggest flaws is his too frequent inability to slide and find those open passing lanes. GO BILLS!!!
mannc Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 They might be shading toward where Orton's going, but not enough time would have elapsed for them to have come SO far from their mark that what we're perceiving by this photo is invalidated. I'm not saying you're wrong, but you're wrong. See how that works?
Kelly the Dog Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 They might be shading toward where Orton's going, but not enough time would have elapsed for them to have come SO far from their mark that what we're perceiving by this photo is invalidated. Easily. They are four yards away from the Bill in the middle. Two Raiders looking directly at Orton. One four yards and one five. I would bet at least a second has elapsed since Orton looked where he was going to throw. So move the Bills player back one second and the raiders toward him one second and he is not open. look at the raiders. they are all staring at Orton not their man, because he has already set up to throw. It's clearly a terrible decision by Orton. But I doubt any of the Bills were open except Lee Smith at the LOS with a raider 5 yards from him.
The Big Cat Posted December 23, 2014 Author Posted December 23, 2014 "Bad Oline" play is an understatement. Take a look at the blocking in that picture. Raiders rush five, Bills only have four linemen engaging. One guard (number looks like 64, but the Bills don't have a 64, so I don't know who that tub of lard is) is doing nothing, while Cody Glenn looks like he's trying to engage two pass rushers at once. And there's a complete jailbreak over right guard (who I assume pulled to help Glenn, based on how one of the Raiders players is bent sideways), with Wood being out of position to stop them (not surprising, since he's the center, not the guard). Only the RT is actually doing anything worthwhile. And that CAN'T be just bad players. That is the worst blocking scheme I've ever seen. I don't even know what the !@#$ that's supposed to be. I think you're reading too far into it. Orton has PLENTY of room to step and throw, and the screen grab was taken from a play to illustrate good pass coverage.
DC Tom Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Give me a break. TWO WIDE OPEN RECEIVERS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FIELD. The line is not the 'real problem'. Just because we see them doesn't mean Orton can. OL play is about more than just protecting the QB. It's also supposed to provide the QB with a view downfield.
FLFan Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 This 3rd and 1, before the "no punt" looks just as bad for Orton, Hackett, Marrone, The Bills, My parents, and everyone involved: This play, and the ensuing punt, were what has put me over the edge with the Coaching. I might understand this call if, as I was assuming at the time, they planned to go for it on 4th down. However, as we all know now, Marrone decide to punt, 2 points down and less than 15 yds from kicking the go ahead field goal. That decision, along with this cutesy call which did not even seem to have an option, baffle me. You had 2 plays to get 1 yard, and this is the best option? Orton of course screwed it up. Game over.
4merper4mer Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 The Raiders rushed four and Orton is running backward the whole time because Wood can't keep his guy in check. Woods is completely taken out of the play. Funny how terrible execution makes a play call look "truly awful." You are right Mrs. Hackett, always so nice to hear from you. Did Nate get a Prom date yet? When is his driver's test?
The Big Cat Posted December 23, 2014 Author Posted December 23, 2014 Easily. They are four yards away from the Bill in the middle. Two Raiders looking directly at Orton. One four yards and one five. I would bet at least a second has elapsed since Orton looked where he was going to throw. So move the Bills player back one second and the raiders toward him one second and he is not open. look at the raiders. they are all staring at Orton not their man, because he has already set up to throw. It's clearly a terrible decision by Orton. But I doubt any of the Bills were open except Lee Smith at the LOS with a raider 5 yards from him. Baloney. Zero defenders would have been in a position to defend Woods' post.
PolishDave Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Now this is truly an awful play call. Two plays to make one yard and we have Orton drop straight back 10 yards and try some sort of god-awful, slow-developing WR screen to a guy moving sideways. Horrible. Agreed. Completely stupid call when you need one yard. Run the friggin ball there.
The Big Cat Posted December 23, 2014 Author Posted December 23, 2014 You are right Mrs. Hackett, always so nice to hear from you. Did Nate get a Prom date yet? When is his driver's test? Oh, I see, Sarcasm. You are right, team gimp. The players did a HELLUVA job executing on that play. They were put in a position to fail because each of them did the EXACTLY what they were asked to do, did it flawlessly and yet STILL the quarterback had no where to go with the ball. Each of them won their one on one match ups with ease!
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