fridge Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) Why is this hard to understand? It's not. It's actually really simple to understand. Too simple, in fact. That's why I think Russ Brandon is actually an alien. Edited December 23, 2014 by fridge
Heitz Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 But why would the President of a company be involved in its day-to-day operations!? It makes no sense! I'm sure Immult cheers when GE releases a new turbine, doesn't mean he designed it...
peterpan Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 I also don't get how the guy ever got to be where he is? He sure wasn't qualified to be head of the team at such a young age. And he is a real prick to anyone who has ever met the guy
fridge Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 But why would the President of a company be involved in its day-to-day operations!? It makes no sense! I'm sure Immult cheers when GE releases a new turbine, doesn't mean he designed it... I don't know...does Immult sit next to the designers before their deadline? Does he set up an engineers table right next to the engineers? Did he at one point become a de facto engineer? (I checked, and surprisingly - no he has an MBA from Harvard)
Kelly the Dog Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) One thing that doesn't seem to be mentioned a lot in the Brandon conversations is that for the vast majority of his career, he was basically just being Ralph's Lieutenant and good soldier. He carried out Ralph's wishes, and that is why Ralph kept giving him promotion after promotion, and more and more power and responsibility. One way to look at it is the way a lot of people are, that he is the common denominator to the bad stuff that has been omnipresent for 20 years. Another way to look at it, perhaps a better way, is that now Brandon would be Pegula's Lieutenant and good soldier, and carrying out Pegula's wishes, which are going to be considerably different. And if Brandon is as good at carrying out Pegula's wishes as he had been Ralph's, we may have quite a good man for the job. When Brandon was allegedly hiring coaches, he didn't have the ability to offer their assistant's huge contracts, or give them huge perks that they may have requested. Chip Kelly never would have come here before. He may have considered it if Pegula had been here already. Edited December 23, 2014 by Kelly the Dog
Kirby Jackson Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 It's not. It's actually really simple to understand. Too simple, in fact. That's why I think Russ Brandon is actually an alien. Ha ha, that may be true. Just to be clear if people want to take issue with the job that RB has done feel free. I get annoyed when people pin stuff on RB or JO or whoever even though they have nothing to do with it. If you have an issue with Marrone and/or Whaley in their roles than you can certainly look to RB. If you don't like the Kuoandjio pick that's not where you should point he finger. People just say that he's been there forever so it's his fault. There are lots of people that have been there forever but that doesn't mean they assemble talent. Longevity doesn't make you a talent evaluator. RB has excelled at his role. One area where he can certainly be questioned that is often overlooked is leaving Modrak & Guy in charge of the roster. The years where RB & Marv were the "GM" were 100% run by Modrak and Guy. I promise you that neither RB or Marv has ever MADE a personnel decision on the Bills. The talent acquired in that period really set he team back.
K-9 Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Yeah, he had nothing to do with any personnel decisions. They're chatting about concession prices here, on draft day: So, from these pictures we should deduce that Russ Brandon was running the show in the draft room? Really? Was that Brandon on the phone with the Browns? Was it Brandon that made the call on taking Kouandjio in the 2nd round? It was Brandon that worked the previous 12 months compiling the scouting info, breaking it down, and assigning player grades? It was Brandon that constructed the draft board? Are the terms "collaboration" and "consensus" familiar to you? Can you find me a picture from ANY war room in the league on draft day that DOESN'T have the team president in attendance? As president of the team Brandon was very much involved with the ENTIRE operation; all of it. And that includes taking Whaley, Marrone, personnel directors, scouts, etc. to task for the jobs they were hired to do. That was his job. That DOESN'T mean he thinks he knows more than they do when it comes to football and personnel decisions. Which is why he NEVER made a SINGLE personnel decision on his own. Ever. Including his time as "GM." I'll give him credit for having the good sense to defer to the expertise around him. GO BILLS!!!
Kirby Jackson Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 One thing that doesn't seem to be mentioned a lot in the Brandon conversations is that for the vast majority of his career, he was basically just being Ralph's Lieutenant and good soldier. He carried out Ralph's wishes, and that is why Ralph kept giving him promotion after promotion, and more and more power and responsibility. One way to look at it is the way a lot of people are, that he is the common denominator to the bad stuff that has been omnipresent for 20 years. Another way to look at it, perhaps a better way, is that now Brandon would be Pegula's Lieutenant and good soldier, and carrying out Pegula's wishes, which are going to be considerably different. And if Brandon is as good at carrying out Pegula's wishes as he had been Ralph's, we may have quite a good man for the job. When Brandon was allegedly hiring coaches, he didn't have the ability to offer their assistant's huge contracts, or give them huge perks that they may have requested. Chip Kelly never would have come here before. He may have considered it if Pegula had been here already. Really well said! Our old president used to talk about this a lot. His only responsibility is to do what's in his bosses' best wishes (the owner). Our owner was a bit of a loose cannon and the president amazing. He did what he was asked. It's just like we all do. You may not agree with what your superior asks of you but at the end of the day you have to carry out those wishes.
Kelly the Dog Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 So, from these pictures we should deduce that Russ Brandon was running the show in the draft room? Really? Was that Brandon on the phone with the Browns? Was it Brandon that made the call on taking Kouandjio in the 2nd round? It was Brandon that worked the previous 12 months compiling the scouting info, breaking it down, and assigning player grades? It was Brandon that constructed the draft board? Are the terms "collaboration" and "consensus" familiar to you? Can you find me a picture from ANY war room in the league on draft day that DOESN'T have the team president in attendance? As president of the team Brandon was very much involved with the ENTIRE operation; all of it. And that includes taking Whaley, Marrone, personnel directors, scouts, etc. to task for the jobs they were hired to do. That was his job. That DOESN'T mean he thinks he knows more than they do when it comes to football and personnel decisions. Which is why he NEVER made a SINGLE personnel decision on his own. Ever. Including his time as "GM." I'll give him credit for having the good sense to defer to the expertise around him. GO BILLS!!! Actually, I think it was Brandon on the phone with the Browns IIRC, up until the trade was made, which was Whaley on the phone with the Browns. The Bills had a point man with each team above them, discussing trade possibilities. They weren't making the offer but relaying info from Whaley. But I think Brandon, who knew someone on the browns was the guy with them. I could be remembering this wrong.
fridge Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Another way to look at it, perhaps a better way, is that now Brandon would be Pegula's Lieutenant and good soldier, and carrying out Pegula's wishes, which are going to be considerably different. And if Brandon is as good at carrying out Pegula's wishes as he had been Ralph's, we may have quite a good man for the job. Very interesting argument. Unfortunately, I would argue that Brandon wasn't necessarily that great at carrying out Ralph's wishes. To some degree, sure. I'm sure Ralph, in all seriousness and senility, said "Only Marv Levy can come in here and save us." And then Russ did that. I was carrying out orders, sir! It was a Code Red!
K-9 Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Actually, I think it was Brandon on the phone with the Browns IIRC, up until the trade was made, which was Whaley on the phone with the Browns. The Bills had a point man with each team above them, discussing trade possibilities. They weren't making the offer but relaying info from Whaley. But I think Brandon, who knew someone on the browns was the guy with them. I could be remembering this wrong. You are. The trade was consummated on the phone between Whaley and Farmer. They'd had a couple prior conversations. I don't care if Brandon was on the phone with someone in Cleveland or not. Brandon did not conceive of the trade, negotiate the trade, or close the deal. That doesn't mean it all happened in a vacuum. Like most decisions in most war rooms, it was a consensus agreement. But Whaley owns it. None of that has much to do with my point, though. Which is simply, in what world does the team president NOT be in attendance in the war room to take part in the process as those he's hired specifically for this function perform those tasks? For some strange reason I can't fathom, a certain segment of our fan base HAS to believe Brandon micromanages every single aspect of the operation when nothing is farther from the truth. Ask the people you know in that building and they'll tell you RB is a serial delegater. He very well may NOT want to own some of the poor decisions of the past and that's WHY he delegates so much. GO BILLS!!!
MarkAF43 Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Very interesting argument. Unfortunately, I would argue that Brandon wasn't necessarily that great at carrying out Ralph's wishes. To some degree, sure. I'm sure Ralph, in all seriousness and senility, said "Only Marv Levy can come in here and save us." And then Russ did that. I was carrying out orders, sir! It was a Code Red! What evidence do you have to support that?
Kelly the Dog Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 You are. The trade was consummated on the phone between Whaley and Farmer. They'd had a couple prior conversations. I don't care if Brandon was on the phone with someone in Cleveland or not. Brandon did not conceive of the trade, negotiate the trade, or close the deal. That doesn't mean it all happened in a vacuum. Like most decisions in most war rooms, it was a consensus agreement. But Whaley owns it. None of that has much to do with my point, though. Which is simply, in what world does the team president NOT be in attendance in the war room to take part in the process as those he's hired specifically for this function perform those tasks? For some strange reason I can't fathom, a certain segment of our fan base HAS to believe Brandon micromanages every single aspect of the operation when nothing is farther from the truth. Ask the people you know in that building and they'll tell you RB is a serial delegater. He very well may NOT want to own some of the poor decisions of the past and that's WHY he delegates so much. GO BILLS!!! I agree with all of that. I said Whaley was responsible for the whole trade. I thought I remembered that the point man was Russ for the Browns, but it was Jacksonville that Russ was talking to all along on Whaley's behalf, not the Browns. I was not at all saying Russ was part of the trade decision. My bad.
fridge Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 What evidence do you have to support that? I worded that poorly. He was great at carrying out Ralph's wishes. I just think execution was not always on point. We'll never know because some of the moves, like the Buddy Nix hire, seem like Ralph may have just made the call in his old age.
Jauronimo Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 I worded that poorly. He was great at carrying out Ralph's wishes. I just think execution was not always on point. We'll never know because some of the moves, like the Buddy Nix hire, seem like Ralph may have just made the call in his old age. In your opinion Ralph wished Russ to execute poorly?
bigK14094 Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 I can't go down the Sullivan/Carrucci path of looking at plays or individual players or coaches anymore. After 15 years, it's time to recognize that there is a greater pattern. Questions: On what planet do you fail for as long as he has and keep your job? Why is he the only Pres in the AFC East without an Ivy League graduate degree? How many other team Presidents in the NFL are running teams with their bachelors degrees? How did a bachelors degree from St. John Fischer, some experience with the Marlins, and 9 years with the bills make him qualified to run an NFL franchise? How many hours and dollars did he spend on the Toronto deals which could have been spent trying to make the team better? Why have we hired more head coaches than any team (except Raiders) since 2000? Why have we not been able to hire a head coach with a winning record? Why is the team winning less than 40% of its games during his tenure? How do prospects feel about coming to play for a guy with this track record, who has the same education level as they do? I'm sure Ive missed some details, but the point is, the guy is grossly under qualified with a long track record of failure. I think he had RW brainwashed, and I hope Pegula asks the hard questions about Mr. Brandon. It's time to have this team run professionally. IMHO, the reason we have not had top tier coaching talent in Buffalo was the owner....(not because he was cheap btw, he wasn't) but because his potential passing while in his late 80's and 90's and the following sale and potential relocation, made this franchise an undesireable landing site for top coaching talent. They could go where they wanted, into a more stable situation. Things will be better on that front now with the Pegula's as long term commited to Buffalo owners. Hoping Marrone puts on his big boy shorts and can's Hackett and recognizes the O is a failure. He needs to bring in a new OC, and let him make the calls. Its not working after two years of the Marrone/Hackett offensive scheme.
vorpma Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 I can't go down the Sullivan/Carrucci path of looking at plays or individual players or coaches anymore. After 15 years, it's time to recognize that there is a greater pattern. Questions: On what planet do you fail for as long as he has and keep your job? Why is he the only Pres in the AFC East without an Ivy League graduate degree? How many other team Presidents in the NFL are running teams with their bachelors degrees? How did a bachelors degree from St. John Fischer, some experience with the Marlins, and 9 years with the bills make him qualified to run an NFL franchise? How many hours and dollars did he spend on the Toronto deals which could have been spent trying to make the team better? Why have we hired more head coaches than any team (except Raiders) since 2000? Why have we not been able to hire a head coach with a winning record? Why is the team winning less than 40% of its games during his tenure? How do prospects feel about coming to play for a guy with this track record, who has the same education level as they do? I'm sure Ive missed some details, but the point is, the guy is grossly under qualified with a long track record of failure. I think he had RW brainwashed, and I hope Pegula asks the hard questions about Mr. Brandon. It's time to have this team run professionally. :thumbsup: This is a failed organization - total failure - tear it down and start again. You are. The trade was consummated on the phone between Whaley and Farmer. They'd had a couple prior conversations. I don't care if Brandon was on the phone with someone in Cleveland or not. Brandon did not conceive of the trade, negotiate the trade, or close the deal. That doesn't mean it all happened in a vacuum. Like most decisions in most war rooms, it was a consensus agreement. But Whaley owns it. None of that has much to do with my point, though. Which is simply, in what world does the team president NOT be in attendance in the war room to take part in the process as those he's hired specifically for this function perform those tasks? For some strange reason I can't fathom, a certain segment of our fan base HAS to believe Brandon micromanages every single aspect of the operation when nothing is farther from the truth. Ask the people you know in that building and they'll tell you RB is a serial delegater. He very well may NOT want to own some of the poor decisions of the past and that's WHY he delegates so much. GO BILLS!!! And your source for this is????
thebandit27 Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 :thumbsup: This is a failed organization - total failure - tear it down and start again. And your source for this is???? Many of us will vouch for K-9...he's got a history with the organization
Jauronimo Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Many of us will vouch for K-9...he's got a history with the organization The fact that he needs no source for all the speculation regarding Russ Brandon's role in bringing the Bills down from the inside suggests that any source provided which add to color to the last decade will be insufficient.
Kirby Jackson Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Many of us will vouch for K-9...he's got a history with the organization I 2nd this. When it comes to the personnel side of he Bills there is probably not a more credible poster on this board than K-9.
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