Pope Francis ain't messing around

[birdog1960]

Sheesh - I haven't wasted my time to read all this thread - but people are actually dissecting whether the pope is a communist or just a socialist? Maybe - maybe he is the leader of one of the largest religions on earth and is preaching for the less lucky. I am an atheist (there goes a label!) and I can't help but truly be impressed with him. I notice in his quotes he is not especially espousing the exact means to which the impoverished get to a better life - but that society should endeavor for it. Should any society - whether it is libertarian or capitalistic or the current mess that we seem to have - have a metric of its success to raise the bottom - eliminate as much poverty and sickness as possible?

 

He is also the first pope in recent time to preach inclusion....not exclusion....

this is one of his greatest attributes. he's sincere. people can feel it. he speaks clearly. people can understand. most importantly he's good. people realize it almost immediately. sincere, clear, good…those are some fine labels.

[TakeYouToTasker]

this is one of his greatest attributes. he's sincere. people can feel it. he speaks clearly. people can understand. most importantly he's good. people realize it almost immediately. sincere, clear, goodthose are some fine labels.

And unChrist-like. You forgot unChrist-like again.

 

But, in the spirit of Christ, I forgive you.

[Gene Frenkle]

This reminds me of my kids arguing the finer points of video games.

[birdog1960]

And unChrist-like. You forgot unChrist-like again.

 

But, in the spirit of Christ, I forgive you.

you are the arbiter of absolutely nothing. here, you are especially not speaking from a position of authority.

This reminds me of my kids arguing the finer points of video games.

cynicism rules when you can't appreciate the existence of a good man. it must be miserable.

[TakeYouToTasker]

you are the arbiter of absolutely nothing. here, you are especially not speaking from a position of authority.

No less so than you. We're all sinners. Your Red Pope included.

 

With that said, you apparently don't view Christ as The Prince of Peace, but rather as a shepherd of force and violence.

Edited January 13, 2015 by TakeYouToTasker

[TH3]

No less so than you. We're all sinners. Your Red Pope included.

 

With that said, you apparently don't view Christ as The Prince of Peace, but rather as a shepherd of force and violence

 

speechless....

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

speechless....

You might not like it, but it's true. Christ preached peace, and regardless of the fact that he was all-powerful (if you choose to believe in his divinity) he never acted to force, or even advocated force, to bend the knee of anyone, or to bring them into Christian practice.

 

Government is the ultimate arbitor of force and violence.

[DC Tom]

You might not like it, but it's true. Christ preached peace, and regardless of the fact that he was all-powerful (if you choose to believe in his divinity) he never acted to force, or even advocated force, to bend the knee of anyone, or to bring them into Christian practice.

 

And like most prophets, that never stopped anyone from doing so in his name.

 

Now go demonize Mohammed some more.

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

And like most prophets, that never stopped anyone from doing so in his name.

Which is relevant only in the sense that it's exactly what the Red Pope advocates.

 

 

 

Now go demonize Mohammed some more.

I've done no such thing.

[Gene Frenkle]

cynicism rules when you can't appreciate the existence of a good man. it must be miserable.

Your pouring your brainpower into trying to spin words in a biography to meet your political views in order to win an argument. This biography was written hundreds of years after the events described, mangled and revised by powerful men over the centuries to meet their agendas, translated and re-translated, and likely retains only some semblance of truth with regard to the events that actually took place. My miserableness aside, what does that say about you and your arguments?

You're better off sticking with Ayn Rand.

[birdog1960]

Your pouring your brainpower into trying to spin words in a biography to meet your political views in order to win an argument. This biography was written hundreds of years after the events described, mangled and revised by powerful men over the centuries to meet their agendas, translated and re-translated, and likely retains only some semblance of truth with regard to the events that actually took place. My miserableness aside, what does that say about you and your arguments?

You're better off sticking with Ayn Rand.

i doubt anyone with an ounce of thought would argue that all religions have gotten off track from time to time. i believe francis is trying to put catholicism back on track. others clearly disagree.

 

regardless, he is in a powerful and influential position on the world stage. he is recognized as a diplomat in most countries and his office is shown respect. it is said that he was influential in the US normalizing relations with cuba. john paul II played a part in the fall of the soviet union. he's an important person. that he is good as well is good for the world imo. i see his actions often as things to celibate. you seem to find them unimportant solely because he is tied to religion.

[3rdnlng]

i doubt anyone with an ounce of thought would argue that all religions have gotten off track from time to time. i believe francis is trying to put catholicism back on track. others clearly disagree.

 

regardless, he is in a powerful and influential position on the world stage. he is recognized as a diplomat in most countries and his office is shown respect. it is said that he was influential in the US normalizing relations with cuba. john paul II played a part in the fall of the soviet union. he's an important person. that he is good as well is good for the world imo. i see his actions often as things to celibate. you seem to find them unimportant solely because he is tied to religion.

 

 

How do you celibate? By its very nature it is a non-action, not something that you do. You backwoods doctors sure have a funny way of saying things.

Edited January 14, 2015 by 3rdnlng

[Gene Frenkle]

i doubt anyone with an ounce of thought would argue that all religions have gotten off track from time to time. i believe francis is trying to put catholicism back on track. others clearly disagree.

 

regardless, he is in a powerful and influential position on the world stage. he is recognized as a diplomat in most countries and his office is shown respect. it is said that he was influential in the US normalizing relations with cuba. john paul II played a part in the fall of the soviet union. he's an important person. that he is good as well is good for the world imo. i see his actions often as things to celibate. you seem to find them unimportant solely because he is tied to religion.

You've got me all wrong. I like this guy. He seems like a good man.

[TakeYouToTasker]

The Red Pope says there are limits to Free Speech:

 

http://news.yahoo.com/pope-charlie-hebdo-limits-free-expression-121639260.html

 

 

 

"If my good friend Dr. Gasparri says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch," Francis said, throwing a pretend punch his way. "It's normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others."

 

...he said there was a limit to free speech when it concerned offending someone's religious beliefs.

 

"There are so many people who speak badly about religions or other religions, who make fun of them, who make a game out of the religions of others," he said. "They are provocateurs. And what happens to them is what would happen to Dr. Gasparri if he says a curse word against my mother. There is a limit."

[B-Man]

Catholic News Service

 

ABOARD THE PAPAL FLIGHT FROM COLOMBO, Sri Lanka

… “Let’s go to Paris, let’s speak clearly,” the pope said. “One cannot offend, make war, kill in the name of one’s own religion, that is, in the name of God.”

 

The pope said freedom of expression was a “fundamental human right” like freedom of religion,

but one that must be exercised “without giving offense.”

 

Offering a hypothetical example that referred to the Vatican’s planner of papal trips, who was standing beside him as he spoke, the pope said: “It’s true, one cannot react violently, but if Dr. (Alberto)

Gasbarri

, a great friend, says a swear word against my mother, then he is going to get a punch. But it’s normal, it’s normal. One cannot provoke, one cannot insult other people’s faith, one cannot make fun of faith”…

 

 

Disappointing that he would say this, but hey think of those who have been using his words for their own agendas.................

 

 

Pope turns out not to be a liberal secular humanist..... Liberal secular humanists outraged........ "I LIKED THIS POPE! I FEEL CHEATED!"

 

[birdog1960]

 

Catholic News Service

 

ABOARD THE PAPAL FLIGHT FROM COLOMBO, Sri Lanka

… “Let’s go to Paris, let’s speak clearly,” the pope said. “One cannot offend, make war, kill in the name of one’s own religion, that is, in the name of God.”

 

The pope said freedom of expression was a “fundamental human right” like freedom of religion,

but one that must be exercised “without giving offense.”

 

Offering a hypothetical example that referred to the Vatican’s planner of papal trips, who was standing beside him as he spoke, the pope said: “It’s true, one cannot react violently, but if Dr. (Alberto)

Gasbarri

, a great friend, says a swear word against my mother, then he is going to get a punch. But it’s normal, it’s normal. One cannot provoke, one cannot insult other people’s faith, one cannot make fun of faith”…

 

 

Disappointing that he would say this, but hey think of those who have been using his words for their own agendas.................

 

 

Pope turns out not to be a liberal secular humanist..... Liberal secular humanists outraged........ "I LIKED THIS POPE! I FEEL CHEATED!"

 

 

i don't see either of those quotes in the linked story nor does it seem relevant to them. wanna clarify the connection?

[B-Man]

i don't see either of those quotes in the linked story nor does it seem relevant to them. wanna clarify the connection?

 

 

The first quote "without giving offense" IS directly from the link .

 

The second is not a quote, but a comment by me (unfortunately when I tried to highlight it using our tools on the board, the word quote does appear.

 

but as to your feigned confusion about it's meaning, I can only laugh.......It is self-evident................to coin a phrase.

 

 

 

.

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

 

The first quote "without giving offense" IS directly from the link .

 

The second is not a quote, but a comment by me (unfortunately when I tried to highlight it using our tools on the board, the word quote does appear.

 

but as to your feigned confusion about it's meaning, I can only laugh.......It is self-evident................to coin a phrase.

 

 

 

.

See my quote in the post directly above yours.

[ExiledInIllinois]

He's not a commie. Show me where the Pope forces, or recommends the use of force, to separate an individual from his property.

 

It seems both the libs and the conservatives on here want to think the Pope is a commie. He isn't.

 

Read better.

I never thought the Pope was a commie. Anything but! Now a socialist yes.

[birdog1960]

 

 

The first quote "without giving offense" IS directly from the link .

 

The second is not a quote, but a comment by me (unfortunately when I tried to highlight it using our tools on the board, the word quote does appear.

 

but as to your feigned confusion about it's meaning, I can only laugh.......It is self-evident................to coin a phrase.

 

 

 

.

really, i don't see the connection. he says one shouldn't insult anothers religion. he uses the analogy of criticizing his mother and getting punched for it. he doesn't condone killing those that insult. seems a perfectly reasonable and measured comment. doesn't change my opinion of him in the least.