NoSaint Posted December 22, 2014 Posted December 22, 2014 It's been five years, it's time to get over the lofty draft pick and the 'potential'. if you were truly ignoring draft status, you should be relatively ok with the guy. if he was a UDFA you would be THRILLED by his career.
BringBackFergy Posted December 22, 2014 Posted December 22, 2014 not totally. some guys do great in small windows and pounding away. they cant get in open space, and if they do they are caught up to quickly. if you give spiller a 1-1 matchups on the perimeter he does a lot more with that then some guys do. I've watched Spiller bang it up the middle (with his shutterstep shuffle before hitting the line) and I've seen him get outside...neither impresses me lately. He had "space" but either he couldn't decide on the cut back or the Guards didn't do their job. Either way...space is hard to come by; my point being, getting a player in space is easier said than done.
strive_for_five_guy Posted December 22, 2014 Posted December 22, 2014 Although it is hard to justify some big contract for CJ given his on the field production, the same could be said about any player on our offense since Marrone took the helm. We have him. He was generally regarded to be a very viable weapon when he was drafted. He has shown moments of quickness and big play ability. We have already run Stevie and Mike Williams out of town. Both were productive players pre-Marrone. Now CJ? Then who, then who? How about Marrone? Sign CJ to a reasonable contract -- it's not like Freddie is getting younger --- get some real coaching talent and see where we go before we are forced into running Sammy out of town to prop up this doofus coach. Could you or someone else please explain to me how you know for sure that Mike Williams is still good enough to be effective in this league? Yes, he had some impressive seasons early in his career, but that doesn't mean he is necessarily still good enough to cut it. Do you think the Bills gave up on Lee Evans to soon also?
NoSaint Posted December 22, 2014 Posted December 22, 2014 Hey remember all those negative runs we had on first down in this weeks Spiller was out? Yeah. Me neither. spiller on first down this year: 45 carries, 258 yards and 5.7 ypc, 10 receptions for 85 yards and 1 td take out his longest run on first down and still 4.65 YPC on first downs
Heels20X6 Posted December 22, 2014 Posted December 22, 2014 For the life of me, I will never understand the hate that Spiller gets on these boards. Apart from being a high vanity pick of Buddy Nix, what has he done to spite Bills fans? Is it because he dared to take some touches away from local folk hero Fred Jackson? Because Jackson himself has zero issues with Spiller and considers him a close friend... Is it because he's forced to run behind a line better suited for a power back? Most teams, if drafting a smaller, cutting back would try and devise an offense around him, not force him to keep running up the middle where his size doesn't help him. What is it? He's always been a proud Bill and good to all the fans that meet with him. He's not Marshawn Lynch that way. Nor is he like Donte Whitner grossly overestimating himself in the media and demanding a high salary to boot. We don't even know what his salary demands are yet some here are throwing out astronomical numbers like it's a given that's what he'll ask for. I just don't get it. Spiller gets so much vitriol spewed at him and I have no idea why.
BringBackFergy Posted December 22, 2014 Posted December 22, 2014 For the life of me, I will never understand the hate that Spiller gets on these boards. Apart from being a high vanity pick of Buddy Nix, what has he done to spite Bills fans? Is it because he dared to take some touches away from local folk hero Fred Jackson? Because Jackson himself has zero issues with Spiller and considers him a close friend... Is it because he's forced to run behind a line better suited for a power back? Most teams, if drafting a smaller, cutting back would try and devise an offense around him, not force him to keep running up the middle where his size doesn't help him. What is it? He's always been a proud Bill and good to all the fans that meet with him. He's not Marshawn Lynch that way. Nor is he like Donte Whitner grossly overestimating himself in the media and demanding a high salary to boot. We don't even know what his salary demands are yet some here are throwing out astronomical numbers like it's a given that's what he'll ask for. I just don't get it. Spiller gets so much vitriol spewed at him and I have no idea why. I think we all like Spiller. I like him a lot as a person. We just expect him to do so much more.
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 22, 2014 Posted December 22, 2014 I think we all like Spiller. I like him a lot as a person. We just expect him to do so much more. Remember how much better Bryce Brown was? Oh wait. It's a broken offense led by a bad starting qb and an over his head OC. How anyone can make concrete judgements on any offensive players is beyond me.
zow2 Posted December 22, 2014 Posted December 22, 2014 I just don't get it. Spiller gets so much vitriol spewed at him and I have no idea why. I think it's b/c Bills fans prefer consistency over the boom or bust type play. Personally i'd like to see them swing the ball out to him more. When he catches it in space he's dangerous.
4merper4mer Posted December 22, 2014 Posted December 22, 2014 How is that justification for resigning a guy who isn't getting it done? Everyone else sucks too so we shouldn't punish CJ? It's been five years, it's time to get over the lofty draft pick and the 'potential'. They should be running people out of town every single year so long as they can't field a winning team. btw, SJ has 35 catches this year. SJ is playing on a tire fire of a team but I can't say he has played well. It would be simply agonizing to watch Spiller excel on another team a la Lynch albeit in a different way. Between the two of us we can't name a player on this offense who is "getting it done". To me, that speaks to something other than the players. Are you telling me that a good coach couldn't get Darren Sproles or Kevin Faulk production from Spiller? Clearly we won't lose production by losing Spiller. Personally I wonder if he can produce. If he is gone and the oldest running back in the NFL is our only real backfield threat then we have created another hole. All of these little holes are annoying but the black hole at the center is named Marrone.
boyst Posted December 22, 2014 Posted December 22, 2014 Pulling CJ after one play over and over again is not the propped way to utilize him. His breakout year it was discovered he must be in for entire series and keep being pressed. H eventually breaks one He is too damn slow to start
Gray Beard Posted December 22, 2014 Posted December 22, 2014 For the life of me, I will never understand the hate that Spiller gets on these boards. Apart from being a high vanity pick of Buddy Nix, what has he done to spite Bills fans? Is it because he dared to take some touches away from local folk hero Fred Jackson? Because Jackson himself has zero issues with Spiller and considers him a close friend... Is it because he's forced to run behind a line better suited for a power back? Most teams, if drafting a smaller, cutting back would try and devise an offense around him, not force him to keep running up the middle where his size doesn't help him. What is it? He's always been a proud Bill and good to all the fans that meet with him. He's not Marshawn Lynch that way. Nor is he like Donte Whitner grossly overestimating himself in the media and demanding a high salary to boot. We don't even know what his salary demands are yet some here are throwing out astronomical numbers like it's a given that's what he'll ask for. I just don't get it. Spiller gets so much vitriol spewed at him and I have no idea why. I like Spiller. He plays hard, seems to be an upbeat guy, and appears to be a good and supportive teammate. I didn't like the pick because it did not address a need, and even if he was BPA, the offense wasn't designed to use his skill set. I believe in another five years he will be regarded as one of the better backs in the league, but probably not in Buffalo. However, Buffalo coaches have never really embraced creating plays that use his quickness and shiftiness. Gailey did a pretty good job, but without a good set of blockers on screens, the success was limited. Marrone/Hackett seem to have no plans or desire to design plays for him. I feel that is an indictment of Marrone/Hackett for not knowing how or trying to effectively use the players they inherited. Not to mention any of the linemen who were good as screen blockers are gone and have been replaced with less talented ones.
4merper4mer Posted December 22, 2014 Posted December 22, 2014 I like Spiller. He plays hard, seems to be an upbeat guy, and appears to be a good and supportive teammate. I didn't like the pick because it did not address a need, and even if he was BPA, the offense wasn't designed to use his skill set. I believe in another five years he will be regarded as one of the better backs in the league, but probably not in Buffalo. However, Buffalo coaches have never really embraced creating plays that use his quickness and shiftiness. Gailey did a pretty good job, but without a good set of blockers on screens, the success was limited. Marrone/Hackett seem to have no plans or desire to design plays for him. I feel that is an indictment of Marrone/Hackett for not knowing how or trying to effectively use the players they inherited. Not to mention any of the linemen who were good as screen blockers are gone and have been replaced with less talented ones. If they developed plays for Spiller or Mike Williams or Woods or Goodwin or added some additional plays for Watkins it might impact Brad Lamb's next signing bonus.
Manther Posted December 22, 2014 Posted December 22, 2014 (edited) They either need you utilize Spiller talents better or let him walk because keeping him and using him in the same capacity is a waste and just taking up a roster spot. Agreed. If we don't change our playbook or change coaches we shouldn't bother with him. Wouldn't you agree that "getting a player in space" is one of the most basic requirements in the game of football. Isn't it the goal of every team to get their players in space? (preferably, with no defenders around them). Is this unique to CJ or is the "get him in space" coaching philosophy something we came up with here on TBD? Sure...but space isn't having 5 Olinemen, two TE and bringing a WR in motion into block for a total of 8 blockers then having the D have 8 in the box. Then asking Spiller to run up the middle past 16 large men! That is barely football it is just Math! I am not a strong technical football guy....but just marking down X and O's and doing Math I could create more space than Marrone and Hackett. Seriously, am I right or way off? Edited December 22, 2014 by Manther
John from Riverside Posted December 22, 2014 Posted December 22, 2014 I have said it before I will say it again.... There is nothing....N.O.T.H.I.N.G. that Spiller does that Bryce Brown cannot do.
Manther Posted December 22, 2014 Posted December 22, 2014 Remember how much better Bryce Brown was? Oh wait. It's a broken offense led by a bad starting qb and an over his head OC. How anyone can make concrete judgements on any offensive players is beyond me. Agreed. Exactly. He is simply not a RB, and after all this time, his blitz pickup is still garbage. The slot should be his next stop. Let the bigger down hill runners take the roster spots. The only problems for Spiller is that he is not a great pass catcher. He has his share of drops and fumbles throughout his career. He catches well.
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 22, 2014 Posted December 22, 2014 I have said it before I will say it again.... There is nothing....N.O.T.H.I.N.G. that Spiller does that Bryce Brown cannot do. Brown averages 3.5 ypc. More than a half yard less than Spiller. Why do people think Brown is good? Philly destroyed us in that trade.
Dopey Posted December 22, 2014 Posted December 22, 2014 Although it is hard to justify some big contract for CJ given his on the field production, the same could be said about any player on our offense since Marrone took the helm. We have him. He was generally regarded to be a very viable weapon when he was drafted. He has shown moments of quickness and big play ability. We have already run Stevie and Mike Williams out of town. Both were productive players pre-Marrone. Now CJ? Then who, then who? How about Marrone? Sign CJ to a reasonable contract -- it's not like Freddie is getting younger --- get some real coaching talent and see where we go before we are forced into running Sammy out of town to prop up this doofus coach. I wouldn't say we ran Stevie out of town. His stats for this season are comparable to Hogan's: Stevie-35 rec/435 yds/3 td's Hogan: 40 rec/423 yds/4 td's. Stevie's salary is 3.65 mil this year, 5.5 mil next and 5.85 the following. Hogan 495K. If that's called running him out of town, I'm for it. I won't even get into the Mike Williams thing again.
BringBackFergy Posted December 22, 2014 Posted December 22, 2014 Agreed. If we don't change our playbook or change coaches we shouldn't bother with him. Sure...but space isn't having 5 Olinemen, two TE and bringing a WR in motion into block for a total of 8 blockers then having the D have 8 in the box. Then asking Spiller to run up the middle past 16 large men! That is barely football it is just Math! I am not a strong technical football guy....but just marking down X and O's and doing Math I could create more space than Marrone and Hackett. Seriously, am I right or way off? You're not way off in my opinion. But even misdirection plays are well read by defenses nowadays it is rare that you can get CJ (or any other RB) in pure space. We saw it with Marques Gray when he gained 40 yds on a sideline route but that had more to do with the defense forgetting about him than anything else. The number matchups make sense though (I'm not a football technician either). Remember how much better Bryce Brown was? Oh wait. It's a broken offense led by a bad starting qb and an over his head OC. How anyone can make concrete judgements on any offensive players is beyond me. Bryce Brown has a whole three or four games under his belt. How can you make that comparison? Not a good sample size in my opinion.
TSOL Posted December 22, 2014 Posted December 22, 2014 Im thinking this coaching staff is ruining more than a couple guys on the roster. Watch the teams going into the playoffs, those coaches are maximizing their players potential. CJ hasnt been in the league as long as he has because he flat out sucks, like alot of people on here say. Same with.... Eh, forget it
4merper4mer Posted December 22, 2014 Posted December 22, 2014 I wouldn't say we ran Stevie out of town. His stats for this season are comparable to Hogan's: Stevie-35 rec/435 yds/3 td's Hogan: 40 rec/423 yds/4 td's. Stevie's salary is 3.65 mil this year, 5.5 mil next and 5.85 the following. Hogan 495K. If that's called running him out of town, I'm for it. I won't even get into the Mike Williams thing again. Stevie was clearly run out of town because Marrone could not utilize his skills and/or get along with him. We had acquired both Sammy and MW which any reasonable GM would assume to be valuable weapons. Unfortunately Marrone's ability to utilize MW was no different than it was with SJ, in fact even less, and we turned to Brad Lamb. Goodwin, the NFL's fastest runner can't see the field but Lamb's 4 yard routes on 3rd and 11 are a staple of our offense. But by all means go ahead and trash Stevie, MW and Goodwin. Watch out Woods and Sammy in '15; you'll be the new escape goats. Im thinking this coaching staff is ruining more than a couple guys on the roster. Watch the teams going into the playoffs, those coaches are maximizing their players potential. CJ hasnt been in the league as long as he has because he flat out sucks, like alot of people on here say. Same with.... Eh, forget it You could have just cut and paste the offensive roster into that spot.
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