NastyNateSoldiers Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Nonsense! You have to take what is given to you by the opposing defense, and be thankful for that. You know, let them dictate the terms of the fight. You make do with what they give you. Well, that's Doug's approach. And we wonder why we aren't in the playoffs!? U nailed it on head with that one, Hasn't that been our strategy with all our recent coaches.
GG Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 I think you'd be hard-pressed to convince me that Hackett and co. are so incompetent that the check down options are ALWAYS the first reads. That's not even high school offense, that's preschool. Hackett calls the plays, and Orton executes. I'm no coach, but I don't think you scream at your QB and demand him to throw to one receiver. Orton has to be the one to see the WR to throw the ball. Demanding that he throws to Watkins is like demanding he throws the ball with his eyes closed. My belief is that Orton has been beaten down and is playing scared. Maybe the coaches are telling him to err on the side of caution. But you can not tell me that the same coaches who dialed up a deep ball on 3rd and 5 to go for the throat against GB with a lead is ALSO begging for Orton to check down over and over. They are conflicting mentalities. This is not about putting a single play under a microscope. This is about the entire offense looking horrific over this season and regressing. It's painfully obvious that the Bills don't have a franchise QB. But Orton has looked far worse than he has in his entire career. You may think that it's a coincidence. Many other people don't.
FireChan Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 This is not about putting a single play under a microscope. This is about the entire offense looking horrific over this season and regressing. It's painfully obvious that the Bills don't have a franchise QB. But Orton has looked far worse than he has in his entire career. You may think that it's a coincidence. Many other people don't. Who are you talking to? I'm discussing none of the things you claim I am.
Nuncha Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 ....never gets the ball on a bubble screen? His YAC was one of his strong points coming out of college and Clemson ran them all the time, with great success. I at least thought we'd have it in the playbook. This alone should get Hackett turfed. Because Hackett is the worst O-coordinator in the NFL - simple as that.
Kelly the Dog Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 I think you'd be hard-pressed to convince me that Hackett and co. are so incompetent that the check down options are ALWAYS the first reads. That's not even high school offense, that's preschool. Hackett calls the plays, and Orton executes. I'm no coach, but I don't think you scream at your QB and demand him to throw to one receiver. Orton has to be the one to see the WR to throw the ball. Demanding that he throws to Watkins is like demanding he throws the ball with his eyes closed. My belief is that Orton has been beaten down and is playing scared. Maybe the coaches are telling him to err on the side of caution. But you can not tell me that the same coaches who dialed up a deep ball on 3rd and 5 to go for the throat against GB with a lead is ALSO begging for Orton to check down over and over. They are conflicting mentalities. I believe that more than I believe Orton is refusing to throw the ball downfield to Watkins. My only point is that Watkins is an extraordinary player. When you have an extraordinary player it is incumbent upon the coach to get the ball in his hands as often as possible. And if you don't do it you suck as a coach. And if you don't get your quarterback to do it, you suck as a coach. And you demand he does it.
machine gun kelly Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 If Beckham was on Bills instead of NY, you better believe he wouldn't be putting up the same numbers. There is no way our butthead of an offensive coordinator would know now to utilize his talent, just like they have wasted Sammy. Sammy does not get the same focus as Mike Williams and Beckham have gotten on their respective teams. I hate Hackett and hope that sob is gone for being such a terrible coach. Listening to interviews, he implies that his scheme works and blames bad luck and player execution It is not all on the players. He needs to go. You just wonder what would Sammy have done with a decent OC.
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 What is it telling you, exactly? I should have mentioned that Beckham missed the first 4 games of the year. The Giants have attempted to target him nearly as much in four less games as the Bills have Watkins. They also have been highly successful getting it too him when they attempt to. This tells me that the OC has fallen down and lacks the creativity to get his most explosive player the ball.
FireChan Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 I believe that more than I believe Orton is refusing to throw the ball downfield to Watkins. My only point is that Watkins is an extraordinary player. When you have an extraordinary player it is incumbent upon the coach to get the ball in his hands as often as possible. And if you don't do it you suck as a coach. And if you don't get your quarterback to do it, you suck as a coach. And you demand he does it. But this I don't understand. KO can't do it, EJ can't do it. Give Jeff Tuel a go?
4merper4mer Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 But this I don't understand. KO can't do it, EJ can't do it. Give Jeff Tuel a go? I have to hand it to you man. You can squint and put blinders on and stick your fingers in your ears and say la la la and you have many other tricks up your sleeve to avoid seeing the reality that Marrone and Hackett......just........plain......suck.
LabattBlue Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 The offense and it's approach to getting Sammy the ball is so f***ed up, it is hard for the blame not to be shared by all parties involved. Watkins, his injuries, Manuel/Orton, bad OL pass blocking, OC & playbook, playcalling to Sammy or lack thereof, & the HC Marrone. Regardless, they are looking like fools for giving up what they did to get Watkins, and then have him be outperformed by Beckham, Benjamin, Evans, and to some extent, even Landry and Matthews could be argued.
Kelly the Dog Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 But this I don't understand. KO can't do it, EJ can't do it. Give Jeff Tuel a go? No. You make them do it. It's the easiest thing in the world. You demand it. They clearly are not. How can you possibly explain a lot of stuff they do? How can you possibly explain calling a play action pass down two scores at your 20 yard line with 2:51 to go? That alone is completely inexplicable and completely intolerable. But that is the play they called.
Chandler#81 Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Same thing with Spiller. Do we want to get our speed demon the ball in space where we can utilize his effectiveness? No. Run him up the middle..
FireChan Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 No. You make them do it. It's the easiest thing in the world. You demand it. They clearly are not. How can you possibly explain a lot of stuff they do? How can you possibly explain calling a play action pass down two scores at your 20 yard line with 2:51 to go? That alone is completely inexplicable and completely intolerable. But that is the play they called. Explain the bolded. The playaction pass was unreal though, I give you that. No idea what happened there.
Kelly the Dog Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Marrone: "Kyle. Throw the ball to Watkins. You need to get him 15 targets this game. He's open when he's not open. That's an order. We will call the plays, you get him the ball. You don't have to do it every single play, you know what I mean, just get him the ball. Or I will put EJ in, and you know I don't want to do that." Case closed. Mission accomplished.
FireChan Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Marrone: "Kyle. Throw the ball to Watkins. You need to get him 15 targets this game. He's open when he's not open. That's an order. We will call the plays, you get him the ball. You don't have to do it every single play, you know what I mean, just get him the ball. Or I will put EJ in, and you know I don't want to do that." Case closed. Mission accomplished. EJ was already benched for not getting the ball to the WR's, that's an empty threat.
Kelly the Dog Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 EJ was already benched for not getting the ball to the WR's, that's an empty threat. How can you possibly say it's an empty threat when they already did it by your own statement?
FireChan Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 How can you possibly say it's an empty threat when they already did it by your own statement? "Stay down or I'll kill you twice."
Kelly the Dog Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 "Stay down or I'll kill you twice." If they benched EJ for not throwing to WR as you say, why would Orton think it was an idle threat if they said it to him, (which isn't the reason they benched him, IMO, it was one of the lesser of 5-6 factors). He would think they're serious, I'm going to the bench if I don't do it. I'm not that stupid.
FireChan Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) If they benched EJ for not throwing to WR as you say, why would Orton think it was an idle threat if they said it to him, (which isn't the reason they benched him, IMO, it was one of the lesser of 5-6 factors). He would think they're serious, I'm going to the bench if I don't do it. I'm not that stupid. And if Orton was doing those 5-6 factors equal or better, where's the grounds for the threat? Funnily enough, Marrone would be chastised for being petty for benching a superior player for not marching to his drum. Edited December 23, 2014 by FireChan
4merper4mer Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Explain the bolded. The playaction pass was unreal though, I give you that. No idea what happened there. Hackett/Marrone are clueless; that is what happened with the play action. Why do you have no idea?
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