Film Review - Week 15 - O-Line rallies... Orton too many unforced erro

[Bocephuz]

 

 

 

Unforced errors.. bad throws/ How did the O Line do?/ What mistakes are on the O-Line.. what ones are not?

 

I watched the NFL rewind all 22 and here is my unofficial count of how the O-Line did / How Kyle did on every pass play ( I may have missed a snap or two here.. but this should be 95% accurate)

 

DISCLAIMER ( I am not a coach, I don't know the hot reads or route combinations called.. this is just my educated perception of what happened on each pass play)

 

_______ ______________________

 

TOTAL PASS PLAYS - 36 snaps - a reasonable number (last week was 57 snaps … )

 

LINE BREAKDOWNS 5 out of 36 snaps – 14% … improvement over last week ( last week was 12 or 21% ) - defined as O-Line clearly messed up and Kyle did not have a moment to throw after hitting the last step of his drop.

 

SUFFICIENT PROTECTION - 31 of 36 snaps – 86% .. improvement over last week (last week was 45 snaps or 79 % of pass plays) - defined as O-Line did sufficient job and Kyle hit the last step of his drop and had a moment to throw.

 

UNFORCED KYLE ERRORS: - 9 snaps out of 31- 29%- worse than last week ( last week was 9 snaps or 20% of snaps where he had time) - unforced error defined as Kyle having time and having unforced accuracy issues/ or taking bad sacks.

 

Bottom Line:

Orton’s worst outing by far. Out of the 31 clean pockets he had.. he had far too many unforced overthrows/underthrows/ poor decisions to show for them. The O Line really struggled in the first quarter.. however.. they settled down and played much better the rest of the game. After q1 most of the pressure came from blitzes where they outnumbered our protection.. hard to fault the O Line for that. For the most part, Orton had very good protection and opportunities to throw to open receivers… he just flat out missed guys on too many occasions. There were a few poor decisions.. but mostly it was inaccuracy that got him week 15.

 

__________ __________

 

 

PLAYS OF NOTE

Q1 – Sammy slips on Hook Route

Q1- Pears beaten .. Orton forced to check down

Q1- Both sides of O Line beaten by stunts

Q1 – SACK – Glenn cleanly beaten..

Q1 – Orton unnecessarily checks down to Freddy when he has time

Q1 – Orton steps up to avoid rush.. has time.. but doesn’t see Sammy open at the sticks. Checks down instead

Q2 – Orton makes nice jump ball sideline pass to Watkins

Q2 – Nice out route completion to Woods

Q2 – 3rd and goal- great coverage downfield.. forced to check down

Q3 – Orton unforced poor throw to Sammy on out route

Q3 – Orton throws too high to Woods on open slant route.. unforced

Q3 – INT – underthrown.. forced ball to Sammy in double coverage

Q3 – Orton throws behind Woods – unforced

Q3 – Orton misses Sammy on out route in Red Zone – unforced

Q3 – SACK – Orton panics.. has time to throw and guys open but doesn’t pull trigger

Q4- SACK – Blitz .. Orton has no chance

Q4 – Overthrows wide open Woods .. unforced

Q4 - Overthrown to Watkins on go route… unforced.

 

 

 

SUMMARY - Orton’s worst game by far. EJ Manuel had a similar outing against Houston where he was missing wide open receivers and he was benched shortly after that game. Orton’s performance against the Packers was just as bad as EJ’s in Houston to my eye. Upon further review.. the O-Line held up pretty well for most of the game and guys were generally open. Quite frankly this is inexcusable play for a starting QB in the NFL. If the O Line continues to give him sufficient protection in the Oakland game and Orton performs like that again Marrone will have a hard time keeping his credibility with the team if Orton is not benched.

 

[26CornerBlitz]

I appreciate your time and effort in putting these together each week. Great work as always. Thank You.

[Whack 'Em Williams]

O-Line actually looked okay last week. Orton not so much, but still looks more comfortable than EJ.

[Pete]

O-Line actually looked okay last week. Orton not so much, but still looks more comfortable than EJ.

early in the year the line was awful and orton took some sacks from not enough time. But the Minnesota game I noticed the line playing better and providing time- yet orton looked very uncomfortable and rushing throws. It seems both the line and orton have been continuing that trend linearly- the line up and orton down.

 

 

[San-O]

 

Quite frankly this is inexcusable play for a starting QB in the NFL. If the O Line continues to give him sufficient protection in the Oakland game and Orton performs like that again Marrone will have a hard time keeping his credibility with the team if Orton is not benched.

 

Awesome. Thank you also.

 

He's not a starting QB, just for Buffalo.

 

The Bills seem to have a history of pulling backup QBs and trying to make them starters.

 

FYI. Excellent point about Marrone also. I've been wondering how long with the O until the D or someone on that side starts calling out the poor overall play and play calling of the O. It has to happen at some point, unfortunately IMO.

[Whack 'Em Williams]

Just run the no huddle!

[QB Bills]

Great work. Thanks again.

 

Question...how does one get all-22 access?

 

And is it available for download anywhere?

[JC2002]

LOL again the fact that you dont know what was called and what was everyones job on each play its hard to say what should have happened . You can always way what YOU WANT to happen but that doesn't mean that's what was actually called .

 

All 22 is nice but you don't even know if player is supposed to be in that spot but he looks open in hindsight from the birdseye view so obviously he should've been thrown the ball regardless of the play call or actual view from the field

[Maury Ballstein]

LOL again the fact that you dont know what was called and what was everyones job on each play its hard to say what should have happened . You can always way what YOU WANT to happen but that doesn't mean that's what was actually called .

 

All 22 is nice but you don't even know if player is supposed to be in that spot but he looks open in hindsight from the birdseye view so obviously he should've been thrown the ball regardless of the play call or actual view from the field

 

Orton excuses volume 6.0.

[l< j]

LOL again the fact that you dont know what was called and what was everyones job on each play its hard to say what should have happened . You can always way what YOU WANT to happen but that doesn't mean that's what was actually called .

 

All 22 is nice but you don't even know if player is supposed to be in that spot but he looks open in hindsight from the birdseye view so obviously he should've been thrown the ball regardless of the play call or actual view from the field

 

All of which he acknowledges in the weekly posts. He is not claiming to be scientific or producing results that are beyond any margin of error. He's saying--follow me here--he literally says that this is what it looks like to him. And it's a starting point for conversation.

 

Sure we don't know what was supposed to happen or who exactly screwed up or did a good job. But we can get a sense of what went down. And guess what: every conclusion he reached is supported by everyone else. You don't need to know the play call to know Orton missed Woods for an easy first down.

 

So read the disclaimers and lighten up.

 

kj

[Buffalo Boy]

LOL again the fact that you dont know what was called and what was everyones job on each play its hard to say what should have happened . You can always way what YOU WANT to happen but that doesn't mean that's what was actually called .

 

All 22 is nice but you don't even know if player is supposed to be in that spot but he looks open in hindsight from the birdseye view so obviously he should've been thrown the ball regardless of the play call or actual view from the field

Wow, I guess that thing Orton does where he stares down his receiver and still misses the pass, we can't possibly attribute that to him. How about the slant passes where he hits the receiver on his back shoulder or worse( and these guys still catch it). I guess we can't blame Orton. How about wide open receivers that he doesn't see (When he does try to go through reads) and he checks down. maybe they weren't suppose to be that wide open so he did the right thing by checking down because maybe it was a trick?! Dude....Really?!!!

[JC2002]

All of which he acknowledges in the weekly posts. He is not claiming to be scientific or producing results that are beyond any margin of error. He's saying--follow me here--he literally says that this is what it looks like to him. And it's a starting point for conversation.

 

Sure we don't know what was supposed to happen or who exactly screwed up or did a good job. But we can get a sense of what went down. And guess what: every conclusion he reached is supported by everyone else. You don't need to know the play call to know Orton missed Woods for an easy first down.

 

So read the disclaimers and lighten up.

 

kj

 

Im not really talking about the OP he always puts in his disclaimer Im talking about everyone who uses this video to jump head first into the blame game depending on which side of the coin they favor .

 

Now watching the all 22 after watching the game doesn't tell you that the packers were going into the wind in the 1st quarter and Rodgers passes were all over the place so they went run heavy and ran the ball on there last possession not throwing until they got into the redzone and then we gave them a penalty heading into the 2nd quarter and as soon as we switched directions they we went pass heavy again .

 

On the high throw to Woods and the pick we were throwing into the same wind that had Rodgers missing receivers by 5 yards in the 1st quarter .

 

im not saying Orton didnt make any bad throws in the game but some of this simply overanalyzed BS

 

Wow, I guess that thing Orton does where he stares down his receiver and still misses the pass, we can't possibly attribute that to him. How about the slant passes where he hits the receiver on his back shoulder or worse( and these guys still catch it). I guess we can't blame Orton. How about wide open receivers that he doesn't see (When he does try to go through reads) and he checks down. maybe they weren't suppose to be that wide open so he did the right thing by checking down because maybe it was a trick?! Dude....Really?!!!

 

How can you see WTF his eyes are looking at from your couch ? Every QB misses passes how about putting some context behind some of these claims instead of trying to blame one guy for everything .

 

I tend to side with the coach in that the offensive woes comes from a bit of everything Orton included I'm not stupid enough to think I can tell him what he should be seeing without even knowing what the damn play call is .

[Buffalo Boy]

Im not really talking about the OP he always puts in his disclaimer Im talking about everyone who uses this video to jump head first into the blame game depending on which side of the coin they favor .

 

Now watching the all 22 after watching the game doesn't tell you that the packers were going into the wind in the 1st quarter and Rodgers passes were all over the place so they went run heavy and ran the ball on there last possession not throwing until they got into the redzone and then we gave them a penalty heading into the 2nd quarter and as soon as we switched directions they we went pass heavy again .

 

On the high throw to Woods and the pick we were throwing into the same wind that had Rodgers missing receivers by 5 yards in the 1st quarter .

 

im not saying Orton didnt make any bad throws in the game but some of this simply overanalyzed BS

 

 

 

How can you see WTF his eyes are looking at from your couch ? Every QB misses passes how about putting some context behind some of these claims instead of trying to blame one guy for everything .

 

I tend to side with the coach in that the offensive woes comes from a bit of everything Orton included I'm not stupid enough to think I can tell him what he should be seeing without even knowing what the damn play call is .

When Orton overthrow a sideline pass to a receiver in single coverage, running a fly patter....It's Orton's fault. I'm confident the coaches would agree. When Orton chucks it into the turf in front of Sammy, when Sammy has run a dig route....Orton's fault. ICTCWA. When Orton turns his back to the line of scrimmage, and starts to go fetal, and there is still a good pocket around him, Orton's fault,ICTCWA. Get the gist of my/our point?

[The Dean]

Nice review, Bocephuz. First I have seen of these.

 

Of course, we should understand that any analysis of the OL should include the running game, too. But as a pass blocking view, this works just fine.

 

And it is true we don't know the plays called, and/or the responsibilities on those plays. Sometimes an over throw (or under throw) might be the responsibility of the WR, or simply bad communication between the QB and WR.

 

But it isn't too hard to see when the QB had time, but failed to get rid of the ball before taking a sack. That's probably my biggest complaint with Orton's game. I understand he isn't a high-level NFL passer. If he was, he wouldn't be a career backup/journeyman. But with all his experience he should be able to avoid many sacks he ends up taking.

[Bocephuz]

Great work. Thanks again.

 

Question...how does one get all-22 access?

 

And is it available for download anywhere?

 

NFL Rewind .. I believe cost is around $50 per season

 

Great work. Thanks again.

 

Question...how does one get all-22 access?

 

And is it available for download anywhere?

 

NFL Rewind .. I believe cost is around $50 per season

 

Nice review, Bocephuz. First I have seen of these.

 

Of course, we should understand that any analysis of the OL should include the running game, too. But as a pass blocking view, this works just fine.

 

And it is true we don't know the plays called, and/or the responsibilities on those plays. Sometimes an over throw (or under throw) might be the responsibility of the WR, or simply bad communication between the QB and WR.

 

But it isn't too hard to see when the QB had time, but failed to get rid of the ball before taking a sack. That's probably my biggest complaint with Orton's game. I understand he isn't a high-level NFL passer. If he was, he wouldn't be a career backup/journeyman. But with all his experience he should be able to avoid many sacks he ends up taking.

I wish I could evaluate the run blocking effectively but it is very diificult. I've tried but my ratings tend to vary wildly from Pro Football Focus ratings which shakes my confidence. Much easier to evaluate pass protect. It's fairly easy to tell when OL misses a stunt or someone gets beat one on one

 

early in the year the line was awful and orton took some sacks from not enough time. But the Minnesota game I noticed the line playing better and providing time- yet orton looked very uncomfortable and rushing throws. It seems both the line and orton have been continuing that trend linearly- the line up and orton down.

in general yes.. Oline trending up.. Orton trending down.. Which is scary

[The Dean]

NFL Rewind .. I believe cost is around $50 per season

 

 

 

NFL Rewind .. I believe cost is around $50 per season

 

 

I wish I could evaluate the run blocking effectively but it is very diificult. I've tried but my ratings tend to vary wildly from Pro Football Focus ratings which shakes my confidence. Much easier to evaluate pass protect. It's fairly easy to tell when OL misses a stunt or someone gets beat one on one

 

No doubt. Take a look at OL evaluations and they vary quite dramatically depending on who is doing the analysis.

[smuvtalker]

Im not really talking about the OP he always puts in his disclaimer Im talking about everyone who uses this video to jump head first into the blame game depending on which side of the coin they favor .

 

Now watching the all 22 after watching the game doesn't tell you that the packers were going into the wind in the 1st quarter and Rodgers passes were all over the place so they went run heavy and ran the ball on there last possession not throwing until they got into the redzone and then we gave them a penalty heading into the 2nd quarter and as soon as we switched directions they we went pass heavy again .

 

On the high throw to Woods and the pick we were throwing into the same wind that had Rodgers missing receivers by 5 yards in the 1st quarter .

 

im not saying Orton didnt make any bad throws in the game but some of this simply overanalyzed BS

 

 

 

How can you see WTF his eyes are looking at from your couch ? Every QB misses passes how about putting some context behind some of these claims instead of trying to blame one guy for everything .

 

I tend to side with the coach in that the offensive woes comes from a bit of everything Orton included I'm not stupid enough to think I can tell him what he should be seeing without even knowing what the damn play call is .

 

Is that you Kyle? LOL just giving you a hard time.

 

In all honesty though, it is blatantly obvious that you are a huge Kyle Orton supporter, and I applaud you for having the guts to stick by him, no matter how bad he is. It almost reminds me of Marrone's loyalty to Hackett. But seriously man, you have to be delusional if you don't see all of the warts in Orton's game. And to attack the OP for putting together a very nice write up, that to me seemed very factual and non-biased. And like Bocephuz pointed out, this is just his educated perception(a very good one btw).

 

Speaking objectively, Kyle Orton's performances have gotten progressively worse from game to game, and that is a FACT. He is constantly missing open receivers, and when his receivers are making the catches, they are eye-opening, acrobatic, amazing, and downright damn good catches. I wait baited breath for the game where his throws are on the money, where he in fact throws a receiver open, where the receivers can just catch a ball that hits them square in the numbers, or in their hands, where they don't have to change direction, have to slow down, or use the concentration of the zenmaster himself to catch a pass. In fact, I cannot recall one game where his good throws have outnumbered his poor throws, or where the receiver has simply bailed Orton out. He does not throw an accurate ball! We are winning games with our awesome defense, and we are winning IN SPITE of Orton, not because of him.

 

If it were not for our record, and the fact we are still in the thick of the playoff race, I believe it would have been inevitable that Orton get returned to the pine. And as Bocephuz pointed out, it's getting damn close to a point where Marrone will have no choice but to bench Orton, or risk losing the respect of his players. Unfortunately, because we ARE still in the playoff race, and there are only two games left to play, regardless of what Orton does tomorrow, he will still in 99.9 % likelihood start the final game of the season as well.

 

I think everyone on this board with the exception of you and maybe a few others, believes that Orton is not a good quarterback, and has no business being a starting quarterback in this league. He is a decent backup, and nothing more. I am praying that Bills management do not share your sentiment, and that next year, if Kyle Orton is still with the team, he will be relegated to number two. If he is gone, I will not lose a wink of sleep.

[Captain Hindsight]

LOL again the fact that you dont know what was called and what was everyones job on each play its hard to say what should have happened . You can always way what YOU WANT to happen but that doesn't mean that's what was actually called .

 

All 22 is nice but you don't even know if player is supposed to be in that spot but he looks open in hindsight from the birdseye view so obviously he should've been thrown the ball regardless of the play call or actual view from the field

Cmon really? My girlfriends mom, who doesn't know what it means to snap the ball said to me last week "That guy is terrible."

 

Quit making excuses. Uncle Rico has been bad for a month

[BillsBytheBay]

 

 

Awesome. Thank you also.

 

He's not a starting QB, just for Buffalo.

 

The Bills seem to have a history of pulling backup QBs and trying to make them starters.

 

FYI. Excellent point about Marrone also. I've been wondering how long with the O until the D or someone on that side starts calling out the poor overall play and play calling of the O. It has to happen at some point, unfortunately IMO.

it's not a case of the Bills expecting backups to starting quality, look across the league. All our picked up cast offs have been picked up. It's about getting better players.

 

 

People seem to think there's a tree that grows QB's and only four coaches will pick from it.

[K-9]

... I wish I could evaluate the run blocking effectively but it is very diificult. I've tried but my ratings tend to vary wildly from Pro Football Focus ratings which shakes my confidence. Much easier to evaluate pass protect. It's fairly easy to tell when OL misses a stunt or someone gets beat one on one

 

in general yes.. Oline trending up.. Orton trending down.. Which is scary

 

On the contrary, coming up with results contrary to PFF should embolden you; provide reassurance that you know what you're talking about. Then again, they don't set a very high bar to begin with.

 

GO BILLS!!!