Formerly Allan in MD Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 Of course he's going to be publicly supportive of his OC. We're not the Redskins where the coach publicly disses his quarterback and believes that'll be a positive development.
Dan Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 It seems as though you're refuting a lot of points that no one ever made. If you think Buffalo's run game is a travesty, just tune into a Cardinals game. Ooooo boy. Do I really have to go back and link to all the Orton sucks posts, CJ sucks posts, we should sign Cam Newton/Eli/etc. posts? seems like your biggest mistake is listening to people on here who say stupid things. People overstate how good a player they like is and the exaggerate how bad the other guy is. That's what people do on message boards. There's very little common sense. Like I said, the Offense has had issues and there are numerous reasons for this. Coaching needs to get better, the front office needs to find some better players and the players have to execute. Bottom line is that we are better than we've been in a long time. We still may make the playoffs and if we miss, it will be because of a few plays here or there. I think this same roster could go into next season and make the playoffs. I'm not going to overreact. Is Hackett great? NO. Is he the worst OC in the league, probably not. Same with Orton and EJ, both are serviceable. We could be in a worse situation at QB. The team is on the upswing and we are not far off. Ignore the idiots and enjoy the ride. I have to discuss it with the nitwits here I don't think Hackett or Marrone are available. Or ....are they.. Maddog Marrone!? I'm very much enjoying this ride, btw! In fact, I'm probably in the minority that thinks the season is a good one even if we don't make the playoffs... especially if we win out and go 10-6! With that said, in no way do I think we stand pat next season and just hope for the offense to improve. And, although I agree we need to upgrade a couple of offensive positions terribly. I also firmly believe that we need to upgrade the OC even more so. In fact, I firmly believe that if Hackett remains... then regardless of who we sign, we'll see another 25ish ranked offense again next season.
Wayne Cubed Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 I think we can all agree that the offense is the unit holding this team back. I think we can also agree that we've had nearly 2 full years of this inept offense. So, Hackett has had 2 years, 4 QBs, 4RBs, fast WRs, shifty WRs, and multiple Linemen. And yet, there is absolutely nothing consistent or good about this offense. No one can even state with any certainty what our offensive philosophy is. Does anyone really think that we can add a couple of average payers in the off season and suddenly Hackett's design is finally going to come together? Furthermore, has anyone considered, regarding the all 22s, that opposing defenses have completely figured out our offense, therefore they leave WRs open, because they know exactly where the QB wants to go with the ball? Or when the RB is goign to get it? Or exactly when and where to blitz to throw off the timing. So, yeah, plays look like they're there to be had... but in real time the defense is actually dicatating to our predictable offense. What do the top 10 offenses in the league have in common? Btw they are as follows (OC in parentheses): 1. Pittsburgh (Todd Haley) 2. New Orleans (Pete Carmichael Jr.) 3. Indianapolis (Pep Hamilton) 4. Denver (Adam Gase) 5. Philadelphia (Pat Shurmer) 6. Green Bay (Tom Clements) 7. Atlanta (Dirk Koetter) 8. New England (Josh McDaniels) 9. Dallas (Scott Linehan) 10. Baltimore (Gary Kubiak) Looks to me, besides Philidelphia they all have good to great QB play. I'd also say looking at OC there aren't offensive geniuses in that group either as far as OCs. Players make OCs look great. More specifically good QBs make OCs look great. It's rare that and OC makes a crap QB look good. The Bills have a lower tier QB and that's where the offense ranks.
Maddog69 Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 I think Hackett has some authority but this is indeed Marrone's offense. And I think Hackett deserves blame because he's running Marrone's system (which he helped develop at Syracuse) to the very best of his ability. I don't think Hackett would be any better if he was granted more autonomy. If Marrone is pressured into firing Hackett, things will become interesting for Marrone. Right now, Marrone is running his offense through his protege who shares the same offensive philosophy. How well would Marrone handle an OC who was an independent thinker and wanted autonomy? I understand your point, but I don't think making an OC change at this point would do any good, and could do more harm than good. As we've established, Marrone is really running the Offense. Hackett is, shall we say, an assistant OC. He does some of the grunt work and Marrone makes final game plan design. Bringing in someone else who doesn't work as well with Marrone could muddy the process (which, as we know isn't great already). I'm interested to see a full offseason with Orton. If EJ steps up and is able to take the starting job, that can only mean good things. Orton is arguably average to above average. If he keeps the job, we know what to expect from the QB position. If EJ (or another QB brought in to compete) wins the job then we can expect a higher level of QB play. Another year of development from some of the young players and adding in some FA's and draftees will raise the talent level even more.
K-9 Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 What do the top 10 offenses in the league have in common? Btw they are as follows (OC in parentheses): 1. Pittsburgh (Todd Haley) 2. New Orleans (Pete Carmichael Jr.) 3. Indianapolis (Pep Hamilton) 4. Denver (Adam Gase) 5. Philadelphia (Pat Shurmer) 6. Green Bay (Tom Clements) 7. Atlanta (Dirk Koetter) 8. New England (Josh McDaniels) 9. Dallas (Scott Linehan) 10. Baltimore (Gary Kubiak) Looks to me, besides Philidelphia they all have good to great QB play. I'd also say looking at OC there aren't offensive geniuses in that group either as far as OCs. Players make OCs look great. More specifically good QBs make OCs look great. It's rare that and OC makes a crap QB look good. The Bills have a lower tier QB and that's where the offense ranks. Damn, we could have had Pep Hamilton! Pep Hamilton!! Players trump scheme every time. Especially at the QB position. Every. Single. Time. GO BILLS!!!
Dan Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 What do the top 10 offenses in the league have in common? Btw they are as follows (OC in parentheses): 1. Pittsburgh (Todd Haley) 2. New Orleans (Pete Carmichael Jr.) 3. Indianapolis (Pep Hamilton) 4. Denver (Adam Gase) 5. Philadelphia (Pat Shurmer) 6. Green Bay (Tom Clements) 7. Atlanta (Dirk Koetter) 8. New England (Josh McDaniels) 9. Dallas (Scott Linehan) 10. Baltimore (Gary Kubiak) Looks to me, besides Philidelphia they all have good to great QB play. I'd also say looking at OC there aren't offensive geniuses in that group either as far as OCs. Players make OCs look great. More specifically good QBs make OCs look great. It's rare that and OC makes a crap QB look good. The Bills have a lower tier QB and that's where the offense ranks. So all we need to do is find a top 10 QB laying around and we' good to go?
thewildrabbit Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 I think we can all agree that the offense is the unit holding this team back. I think we can also agree that we've had nearly 2 full years of this inept offense. So, Hackett has had 2 years, 4 QBs, 4RBs, fast WRs, shifty WRs, and multiple Linemen. And yet, there is absolutely nothing consistent or good about this offense. No one can even state with any certainty what our offensive philosophy is. Does anyone really think that we can add a couple of average payers in the off season and suddenly Hackett's design is finally going to come together? Furthermore, has anyone considered, regarding the all 22s, that opposing defenses have completely figured out our offense, therefore they leave WRs open, because they know exactly where the QB wants to go with the ball? Or when the RB is goign to get it? Or exactly when and where to blitz to throw off the timing. So, yeah, plays look like they're there to be had... but in real time the defense is actually dictating to our predictable offense. The offense has been bad for two years now, and critically bad with multiple changes with the same crappy result. Not everyone agrees tho, and I'm sure Dave Wannstedt, George Edwards had their supports too. Some fans are just afraid of change. Can't Hackett, and his zombie offense must go!
Maddog69 Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 What do the top 10 offenses in the league have in common? Btw they are as follows (OC in parentheses): 1. Pittsburgh (Todd Haley) 2. New Orleans (Pete Carmichael Jr.) 3. Indianapolis (Pep Hamilton) 4. Denver (Adam Gase) 5. Philadelphia (Pat Shurmer) 6. Green Bay (Tom Clements) 7. Atlanta (Dirk Koetter) 8. New England (Josh McDaniels) 9. Dallas (Scott Linehan) 10. Baltimore (Gary Kubiak) Looks to me, besides Philidelphia they all have good to great QB play. I'd also say looking at OC there aren't offensive geniuses in that group either as far as OCs. Players make OCs look great. More specifically good QBs make OCs look great. It's rare that and OC makes a crap QB look good. The Bills have a lower tier QB and that's where the offense ranks. don't forget to point out that most of these offenses have gone through more than one OC in recent years and still been very good.
Wayne Cubed Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 So all we need to do is find a top 10 QB laying around and we' good to go? I didn't say it was easy. I'm simply saying replacing the OC, IMO, would solve very little. The goal should always be to find a QB. There needs to be an upgrade.
Deranged Rhino Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 So all we need to do is find a top 10 QB laying around and we' good to go? Found one!
Wayne Cubed Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 don't forget to point out that most of these offenses have gone through more than one OC in recent years and still been very good. Yup. And a lot of the top 10 offenses remain the same. Found one! Haha. Bravo.
Best Player Available Posted December 19, 2014 Posted December 19, 2014 Found one! Got to score you a 10 on that one. Well Played!
Augie Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 Found one! That's not Top 10, he's five foot 10, and he's napping on the job!
Chilly Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 I thought the key to the article was at the end, when Doug basically refused to evaluate Hackett publicly other than saying he's been dealt a tough hand. To me, that means two things: 1. Doug is acknowledging that the offense has been bad. 2. Most of the great offenses in the NFL haven't had the same issues. I do not believe Doug is not saying Hackett did a great job. In fact, I don't really see where in this article he praises the job Hackett has done. My feeling is he's unhappy with Hackett, but recognizes that he's been put into a tough spot, and is taking the blame for that situation as his head coach. I also think he's probably totally focused on this year right now, and he'll decide after the season the best course of action for the offense. The way I interpret this is he's unhappy with status quo and will figure out what changes to make for next year after this one is over.
Kelly the Dog Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 I thought the key to the article was at the end, when Doug basically refused to evaluate Hackett publicly other than saying he's been dealt a tough hand. To me, that means two things: 1. Doug is acknowledging that the offense has been bad. 2. Most of the great offenses in the NFL haven't had the same issues. I do not believe Doug is not saying Hackett did a great job. In fact, I don't really see where in this article he praises the job Hackett has done. My feeling is he's unhappy with Hackett, but recognizes that he's been put into a tough spot, and is taking the blame for that situation as his head coach. I also think he's probably totally focused on this year right now, and he'll decide after the season the best course of action for the offense. The way I interpret this is he's unhappy with status quo and will figure out what changes to make for next year after this one is over. If Marrone was unhappy with Hackett he would have taken over playcalling and he hasn't. I think Marrone thinks like a lot of posters here. That our QBing has been subpar, and even still, there are plays to be made that we're not making. He could be right. IMO, it's that and a lot more. But he may be right.
Chilly Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 If Marrone was unhappy with Hackett he would have taken over playcalling and he hasn't. I think Marrone thinks like a lot of posters here. That our QBing has been subpar, and even still, there are plays to be made that we're not making. He could be right. IMO, it's that and a lot more. But he may be right. I think he's unhappy with the whole thing, including Hackett. That doesn't mean he thinks playcalling would be a magic fix.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 21, 2014 Posted December 21, 2014 If a head coach is secure in his job and the team is winning consistently with O and D, I can see him falling on his sword for his OC. I think Marrone is probably pretty secure, so I have these questions about Marrone's deflecting the heat away from Hackett: 1. Is this just coachspeak, like his weekly "We've got to get better" statement? 2. Is Hackett going to be part of the package, i.e. Marrone stays = Hackett stays? 3. Is it a stall tactic because Marrone is not certain what Terkimula will want for changes? 4. This is overthinking, but does Marrone need to appear to be supportive of his OC to make the hiring of a new OC a bit smoother? (You wouldn't want to to work for a HC who throws his OC under the bus, right?) Okay, TBD, break this down for me. I know football is a team game, takes 11 guys, it's all in the execution, blah blah blah. What is going on here? Link EDIT: GO BILLS!!! I think there's a stump simple interpretation: Marrone deserves the blame because much of the offense and play calling actually belong to Marrone, not Hackett.
finn Posted December 21, 2014 Posted December 21, 2014 1.) One is a veteran, journeyman who has had these issues his entire career. The other is a young, inexperienced QB who had these issues in college and has yet to develop or improve them. 2.) Marrone was supposed to bring a dynamic, innovative offense. They initially tried the uptempo thing at the start of last year but the poor OL, inexperienced QBs and then EJ injury made them pull the plug. As for this year, not sure Orton is really the right guy to be running an uptempo offense. But this is exactly why at least one and maybe both of them blew it. They brought in a scheme without regard to who was playing QB. A no-huddle offense with Manuel and this OL? It was absurd, as the results showed. To be fair, they adjusted, but at best they are doing a mediocre job, not a good one. In other words, they are not actively contributing to losses (not consistently anyway), but neither are they contributing much to success. They're just doing a more or less competent job at this point. Which I suppose is saying something, given Jauron and the other nightmares we've had. Let's not kid ourselves: we're doomed until we bring back Wade Phillips and beg his forgiveness.
machine gun kelly Posted December 21, 2014 Posted December 21, 2014 The OC's are hired and fired by the head coach in almost all situations. If Marrone insisted on keeping Hackett he would be able to convince Whaley and Pegula that the offensive ineptitude is a result of weak Oline and qb execution. He might be right. Hackett called a great game against Denver. It hurts me to say that but it's true. The hard part with this logic is really blaming Whaley for not getting us better talent for the o-line, and a QB. It depends on who this consultant will be and I would love to see Polian as that consultant to make recommendations on the entire team. I like Whaley and see him surviving. Brandon can make the case he has done a good job in non-football operations, and Marrone is most likely safe. Marrone would have to make the case after he hopefully wins the next two or at least today, that with an off-season with Orton, and improvements to o-line and a TE in the draft, he can get them back in contention. A safe move for Marrone is eith er demoting, but more likely firing Hackett, and finding a veteran prior head coach type as a OC. They could sell Hackett could learn from him, etc. That gives Marrone space, and another voice when tough decisions need to be made in game with guys like Turner, Kubiak, etc. I'm not saying them, but a guy like that to run his offense. If Philbin gets shown the door, that's who I'd target. He was OC in Green Bay and did a heck of a job.
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